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Thoughts regarding 19/7 (B) Train Service


Lawrence St

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How many times is the weekend (B) Train service will be brought up?

I hate to be *that* guy, but if you don't want to talk about the subway, you should go somewhere else. That's the great thing about digitalia -- you can turn it off.

Unless we were actually bothering you in some tangible way, this complaint is just abnoxiousness for its own sake.

 

Carry on!

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I hate to be *that* guy, but if you don't want to talk about the subway, you should go somewhere else. That's the great thing about digitalia -- you can turn it off.

Unless we were actually bothering you in some tangible way, this complaint is just abnoxiousness for its own sake.

 

Carry on!

Because it's been discussed on here many times and it's been explained before it won't run for the following reasons.

 

1. I hope you realized it costs money to get those extra crews. Are you going to pay for it?

 

2. G.Os and not just the CPW G.Os but when (D) Train service is running via 8th Avenue, or if there's a G.O in Brooklyn. Even if it goes to only Second Avenue it would still screw up service during the (A)(C) via the Rutgers Street Tube G.Os.

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... I think increased (D) train service between Bedford Park Blvd and 2 Av in Manhattan or 9 Av in Brooklyn may be a better investment.

What about on weekends running (B) on Concourse Line from either BPB or Fordham to 34th St on 8th Av (this track map shows some layover tracks after the express platform for turnbacks: http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/trackmap/pm_west_1.png); and running a (Q) weekend express like the (F) express plan in both directions?

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B can't fit due to endless weekend trackwork: R often via bridge so must merge at DeKalb, 6th Ave trackwork so F runs express very slowly with workers on tracks, CPW trackwork so everything express or local in one direction, etc.  The system would come to a complete standstill.

 

What you could lobby for is for 10 minute headways on the D, since many times they sneakily cut the D to 12 minute headways all weekend long.

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This (below) is what I was referring to, when it comes to GO's:

Because it's been discussed on here many times and it's been explained before it won't run for the following reasons.

 

1. I hope you realized it costs money to get those extra crews. Are you going to pay for it?

 

2. G.Os and not just the CPW G.Os but when (D) Train service is running via 8th Avenue, or if there's a G.O in Brooklyn. Even if it goes to only Second Avenue it would still screw up service during the (A)(C) via the Rutgers Street Tube G.Os.

 

 

B can't fit due to endless weekend trackwork: R often via bridge so must merge at DeKalb, 6th Ave trackwork so F runs express very slowly with workers on tracks, CPW trackwork so everything express or local in one direction, etc.  The system would come to a complete standstill.

 

What you could lobby for is for 10 minute headways on the D, since many times they sneakily cut the D to 12 minute headways all weekend long.

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I'd also like to see (B) service to the Bronx for full daytime on weekdays/weekends, instead of solely rush hour, being considered. The headways are so long on the (D) these days that it's practically unbearable, besides for the paltry 1-2 hours each weekday of rush hour.

I'm sure the MTA would like to frame the (4) as an alternative, but they go to two different places and serve almost entirely different purposes outside of the Bronx.

And on top of that, Lexington line services suffer badly on weekends, and west Bronxites who have to settle for the Concourse instead of the Jerome line should have better options than a paltry 5 trains an hour (at best; I have a sneaking suspicion that it's more like 4 in reality, despite being 5 on the schedule).

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Because it's been discussed on here many times and it's been explained before it won't run for the following reasons.

 

1. I hope you realized it costs money to get those extra crews. Are you going to pay for it?

 

2. G.Os and not just the CPW G.Os but when (D) Train service is running via 8th Avenue, or if there's a G.O in Brooklyn. Even if it goes to only Second Avenue it would still screw up service during the (A)(C) via the Rutgers Street Tube G.Os.

I don't care about all of BS reasons. It's clear that it's needed, given how many times this has come up, not just on this board, but at transit meetings as well. I intend to create a petition soon once I get enough feedback here and do some research, and then address all of the neighborhoods where the (B) would run. If we get enough signatures, the (MTA) will be forced to make changes to improve service. We can't keep making excuses about why commuters should have limited services when they need to get around. You live in Manhattan with various alternatives. Many people have one subway line if that and poor service on weekends.

 

The (B) used to have very limited hours during the week too, and it was great when they expanded those hours. What will be important is starting and keeping the pressure on the (MTA) and having communities work together to see this through. Getting to Brooklyn on weekends from Midtown alone takes FOREVER with the (Q), so I support running the (B) for that reason alone. The question for me is where should it run to and from? I'm inclined to see it be extended into the Bronx to Bedford Park, with regular service terminating at Brighton Beach. Summer service to Coney Island I'm not sure about on weekends, but if the logistics can work, I think that would be a boom for the economy in Coney Island, as people could get there faster all the way from the Bronx.

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Because it's been discussed on here many times and it's been explained before it won't run for the following reasons.

 

1. I hope you realized it costs money to get those extra crews. Are you going to pay for it?

 

2. G.Os and not just the CPW G.Os but when (D) Train service is running via 8th Avenue, or if there's a G.O in Brooklyn. Even if it goes to only Second Avenue it would still screw up service during the (A)(C) via the Rutgers Street Tube G.Os.

In the grand scheme of things, it won't cost that much.

 

In terms of GOs, it should still be fine even if (D) s are going via 8th. Again, those local tracks can handle 24tph easily. And if the AC are running on 6th and or Rutgers, great, 6th can spread it over 4 tracks.

 

Also, at Dekalb, the R wouldn't necessarily have to interact with the B. It could use the express tracks, and even if it didn't, it's only 18tph on that track.

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In the grand scheme of things, it won't cost that much.

 

In terms of GOs, it should still be fine even if (D) s are going via 8th. Again, those local tracks can handle 24tph easily. And if the AC are running on 6th and or Rutgers, great, 6th can spread it over 4 tracks.

 

Also, at Dekalb, the R wouldn't necessarily have to interact with the B. It could use the express tracks, and even if it didn't, it's only 18tph on that track.

 

No it won't. How do you know it won't cost that much? And you have no idea how the congestion is with 3 lines sharing the same track during G.Os and adding a 4th line will make it more worse. And when they do the (D) Train via 8th Avenue G.O to WTC or 2nd Avenue, they terminate at both tracks and not just one so please explain how would running the (B) Train during that G.O will work? Do you have any idea what you're saying that it's easy having 4 lines sharing the same track and how easy it is to run weekend (B) Train Service with the constant G.Os?

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No it won't. How do you know it won't cost that much? And you have no idea how the congestion is with 3 lines sharing the same track during G.Os and adding a 4th line will make it more worse. And when they do the (D) Train via 8th Avenue G.O to WTC or 2nd Avenue, they terminate at both tracks and not just one so please explain how would running the (B) Train during that G.O will work? Do you have any idea what you're saying that it's easy having 4 lines sharing the same track and how easy it is to run weekend (B) Train Service with the constant G.Os?

The number of services on a line means nothing. It's the number of trains that has an affect.

 

As for termination, just run whatever doesn't fit into WTC or 2av to Church -- that could easily handle the rest. And anyway, they seem to do it with the swap these days, so 2nd Ave won't be getting as much action of that type.

 

I'll write something more detailed later.

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Since Second Av opened, weekend  (Q) service runs on a 8 min headway. I think thats a sufficient headway to handle Brighton on weekend

That still does nothing for the people in the Bronx with just the (D) train, which from my experience runs like crap on weekends, or people along Central Park West with just the (C) train with long waits, which also runs like crap.  The (Q) service was bumped up to serve the folks on the Upper East Side.  Meanwhile people in other areas of the city have needs that must be met.  According to the weekend schedule, the (D) supposedly runs every 10 minutes, but from my experiences, waits have been longer than that, so something doesn't add up. In any event, the (B) would provide a service boost and a faster commute for many riders.

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The number of services on a line means nothing. It's the number of trains that has an affect.

 

As for termination, just run whatever doesn't fit into WTC or 2av to Church -- that could easily handle the rest. And anyway, they seem to do it with the swap these days, so 2nd Ave won't be getting as much action of that type.

 

I'll write something more detailed later.

Like I've said, its not easy as you keep making it.

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Like I've said, its not easy as you keep making it.

Well they're running it on weekdays, so it obviously it can be done.  Will adjustments have to be made? Of course.  It's not like this service would be running tomorrow.  It would have to be approved by the (MTA), and they would likely want to run a trial period should they even try it, so all of this hysteria is a big deal over nothing. If a service is needed, it needs to be explored and considered.  It's that simple.  The (MTA) can look at doing more Fast Track operations late at night as well instead of during the weekend since the (B) stops running a little after 22:00.

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Maybe then they should look at running the (M) to 168th on weekends and let IT be the second CPW local on weekends (since it can't run as a QB local then due to CBTC work).  

If you can do it with the (B) (which is what really should be done in the first place), that would be the way to do it, but the (M) to 168th would serve the same purpose of having two locals on weekends on CPW without messing up the (D) in that regard.  

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The number of services on a line means nothing. It's the number of trains that has an affect.

 

As for termination, just run whatever doesn't fit into WTC or 2av to Church -- that could easily handle the rest. And anyway, they seem to do it with the swap these days, so 2nd Ave won't be getting as much action of that type.

 

I'll write something more detailed later.

Yes it does. Normally, a pair or tracks is supposed to support 30 trains per hour (TPH). For a single service on a line with no branches, that's phenomenal. Add branches and that original service now needs to share. It's headway are cut in half to support the new service. Add a third branch and the headway's are cut further.

 

What is my point you ask? You may think number of services on a line may have no effect, but iit in fact does. You can't run proper service if too many services are sharing a track. Unless you cut service to properly accommodate them in the core section. But now you are hurting riders who commute from the branch lines which will in effect make trains more crowded.

 

There is a reason that unless in special circumstances (i.e: 60th Street Tunnel), you will never see more than two services sharing trackage.

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Well they're running it on weekdays, so it obviously it can be done.  Will adjustments have to be made? Of course.  It's not like this service would be running tomorrow.  It would have to be approved by the (MTA), and they would likely want to run a trial period should they even try it, so all of this hysteria is a big deal over nothing. If a service is needed, it needs to be explored and considered.  It's that simple.  The (MTA) can look at doing more Fast Track operations late at night as well instead of during the weekend since the (B) stops running a little after 22:00.

 

Well they're running it on weekdays, so it obviously it can be done.  Will adjustments have to be made? Of course.  It's not like this service would be running tomorrow.  It would have to be approved by the (MTA), and they would likely want to run a trial period should they even try it, so all of this hysteria is a big deal over nothing. If a service is needed, it needs to be explored and considered.  It's that simple.  The (MTA) can look at doing more Fast Track operations late at night as well instead of during the weekend since the (B) stops running a little after 22:00.

I agree...Also when the  (B) ran weekends before it was well used...I guaratee if they ran the  (B)weekends now it wiil be utilize...I mean some of yall sound like this weekend GO plan will be forever....some lines dont even experience wkend service disruptions...

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I agree...Also when the  (B) ran weekends before it was well used...I guaratee if they ran the  (B)weekends now it wiil be utilize...I mean some of yall sound like this weekend GO plan will be forever....some lines dont even experience wkend service disruptions...

You're telling me.  It's ridiculous.  So there are G.O.s.  Does that mean we're never supposed to do anything because of G.O.s? Give me a break.  The (MTA) can figure out way to run the service, just like they do during the week.

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I agree...Also when the (B) ran weekends before it was well used...I guaratee if they ran the (B)weekends now it wiil be utilize...I mean some of yall sound like this weekend GO plan will be forever....some lines dont even experience wkend service disruptions...

Dude, EVERY line experiences weekend work, just not every line on the same day.
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Dude, EVERY line experiences weekend work, just not every line on the same day.

Which is exactly why that shouldn't determine whether or not weekend service comes to the (B)... I mean hell the (L) has run in segments now for years due to work on weekends.  Did that stop the (MTA) from increasing service? No....

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LMFAO these posts are killing me. There is now way that the MTA will run a (B) train on the weekends.

 

Let's go back to the 1990's, where the Manhattan bridge was just operating the north side. Weekdays we have the (B) between 168 St/the Bronx and Coney Island via West End, the (D) via Brighton, and the (Q) between 21st Street and Brighton Beach. Cut to weekends, (Q) doesn't run, and (B) is rerouted to 21st Street, with no service on cpw.

 

Now in post 2004, they had to change the south ends of all 3 lines, with the (D) now on West End, (B) as the Brighton express, and (Q) as the Brighton local. Before you say anything else, think of the reasons why all 3 lines were changed to what they were today. Also if you would look at how the lines were set up in the 1990's, you can also notice why the (B) / (Q) ran weekdays only.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hint hint: it has to do with G.O.s and the fact that it's nearly difficult to run 2 lines on a G.O., let alone 3. And don't say reroute anything, because 1. We know how riders feel about reroutes and how well they pay attention and 2. No point in duplicating routes that do the job pretty well anyways.

 

Also I'm not sure how to put the orange Q on here, but whatever.

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Maybe then they should look at running the (M) to 168th on weekends and let IT be the second CPW local on weekends (since it can't run as a QB local then due to CBTC work).

 

If you can do it with the (B) (which is what really should be done in the first place), that would be the way to do it, but the (M) to 168th would serve the same purpose of having two locals on weekends on CPW without messing up the (D) in that regard.

Annnnnnnd right on schedule.

 

Running the (M) to 168th does not solve the problem, it only makes it worse.

 

And how is that going to help out Brighton?

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