Bx15

[limitednyc]

how many busses from WF are used ?

[East New York]

how many busses from WF are used ?

That requires a tad bit of research so that's likely why no one has responded yet. Only MTA employees and myself of course would have access to that, and even then we still have to do a bit of digging. The only time the master run sheets (everything on one page) are out are at System Pick times.

 

If you give me about 10 minutes I will look it up, but if the runs are interlined then I'm letting you know now you will only get a rough estimate, cause I'm not about to sit here and look up 100 runs individually. Lol

 

But I can see what I can do. Standby.

[GojiMet86]

A fast but very rough way to do it would be to look at at the MTA Tracker app and see the number of buses during each rush of the day.

[East New York]

There are 44 straight runs out of WF, so that's roughly 20 buses at its peak.

 

A fast but very rough way to do it would be to look at at the MTA Tracker app and see the number of buses during each rush of the day.

You can get a rough estimate that way, but if the driver shuts everything down at the terminal and actually changes the sign to Not In Service or New Bus Please, they won't show on the tracking apps.

[Deucey]

...You can get a rough estimate that way, but if the driver shuts everything down at the terminal and actually changes the sign to Not In Service or New Bus Please, they won't show on the tracking apps.

Didn't know that's how it works. Explains how I get screwed waiting for the S40/44/52 trying to get to the ferry.

[East New York]

Didn't know that's how it works. Explains how I get screwed waiting for the S40/44/52 trying to get to the ferry.

Well in your case you just got it all around bad! Lol. All of those lines you mentioned have short turns. This means if you are in one of those short turn areas and say you look at the GPS and you see a but maybe 10-12 minutes away. You check again and all of a sudden it appears as you just missed a bus or either it just popped up out of nowhere. The s44, and s52 and have short turns because they are very long routes. The longer a route is the less reliable it's likely to be the closer it gets to the ferry, and stands a good chance of being late. The s52 is also interlined with the s42, so those may disappear off tracking apps when they get to the end of the line automatically.

 

Now with the s40 which is out of Yukon, has what I call reverse deadheads. Example, run X goes from Old Place to the Ferry. Drops everyone off and instead of parking against the wall, deadheads straight back to the west side of the island, takes a brief break, then starts the next run to the ferry again.

 

So that could be why you are getting "screwed." However, you have like 10 other variables considering the routes you are talking about and how the runs are set up. Then you have to factor in traffic, incidents or breakdowns. If there is a road call for an accident or malfunction, or a detour because of an accident, that bus will disappear from GPS as well.

 

Unfortunately with a Transit System, and city this large, those latter incidents are bound to happen almost everyday, if not every day.

[checkmatechamp13]

Well in your case you just got it all around bad! Lol. All of those lines you mentioned have short turns. This means if you are in one of those short turn areas and say you look at the GPS and you see a but maybe 10-12 minutes away. You check again and all of a sudden it appears as you just missed a bus or either it just popped up out of nowhere. The s44, and s52 and have short turns because they are very long routes. The longer a route is the less reliable it's likely to be the closer it gets to the ferry, and stands a good chance of being late. The s52 is also interlined with the s42, so those may disappear off tracking apps when they get to the end of the line automatically.

 

Now with the s40 which is out of Yukon, has what I call reverse deadheads. Example, run X goes from Old Place to the Ferry. Drops everyone off and instead of parking against the wall, deadheads straight back to the west side of the island, takes a brief break, then starts the next run to the ferry again.

 

So that could be why you are getting "screwed." However, you have like 10 other variables considering the routes you are talking about and how the runs are set up. Then you have to factor in traffic, incidents or breakdowns. If there is a road call for an accident or malfunction, or a detour because of an accident, that bus will disappear from GPS as well.

 

Unfortunately with a Transit System, and city this large, those latter incidents are bound to happen almost everyday, if not every day.

 

The S52 doesn't have short-turns other than a few on the weekends that run between Stapleton & St. George (heading southbound, the destination sign incorrectly reads "Jersey Street/Castleton Avenue". I forget the exact abbreviation).

 

The S42 is effectively the short-turn of the S52. As a matter of fact, the reason the S42 was saved was basically because they figured that during the week, they would have to add extra short-turns to provide adequate capacity for ferry-bound riders and so they decided to run those short-turns up the S42 route.

 

The S44 only has short-turns heading westbound to Post/Jewett (and I know this because I live along the route). Aside from a few that start/end by Marsh Avenue & Ring Road, there's no other short-turns or branches.

 

Also, the S40 is based out of Castleton, not Yukon. And those trips generally are either S40 trips to/from Arlington or S90 trips to/from Old Place. I don't think there are many (if any) trips that run all-local between Old Place & St. George and then go back to do another all-local trip between Old Place & St. George.

 

The thing with the routes he mentioned is that, being close to the ferry, they often have to put up the "Next Bus Please" sign due to crowding.

[Deucey]

The S52 doesn't have short-turns other than a few on the weekends that run between Stapleton & St. George (heading southbound, the destination sign incorrectly reads "Jersey Street/Castleton Avenue". I forget the exact abbreviation).

 

The S42 is effectively the short-turn of the S52. As a matter of fact, the reason the S42 was saved was basically because they figured that during the week, they would have to add extra short-turns to provide adequate capacity for ferry-bound riders and so they decided to run those short-turns up the S42 route.

 

The S44 only has short-turns heading westbound to Post/Jewett (and I know this because I live along the route). Aside from a few that start/end by Marsh Avenue & Ring Road, there's no other short-turns or branches.

 

Also, the S40 is based out of Castleton, not Yukon. And those trips generally are either S40 trips to/from Arlington or S90 trips to/from Old Place. I don't think there are many (if any) trips that run all-local between Old Place & St. George and then go back to do another all-local trip between Old Place & St. George.

 

The thing with the routes he mentioned is that, being close to the ferry, they often have to put up the "Next Bus Please" sign due to crowding.

I only see those Next Bus Please signs on empty buses, ironically.

 

But even when the S44 operator follows the S40 and sees it's full, all of us waiting at St Peter's/Richmond still have to crowd on the S40; S44 just keeps on rolling despite having space.

 

Contrast that with the S52/42 at Egmont/Hamilton - both buses stop because of the crowding due to Curtis High students.

[checkmatechamp13]

I only see those Next Bus Please signs on empty buses, ironically.

 

But even when the S44 operator follows the S40 and sees it's full, all of us waiting at St Peter's/Richmond still have to crowd on the S40; S44 just keeps on rolling despite having space.

 

Contrast that with the S52/42 at Egmont/Hamilton - both buses stop because of the crowding due to Curtis High students.

 

I gotta be honest, I can see what the S44 driver is thinking: Why should he stop the bus and delay his passengers when the S40 is already available for people to board. Plus, to be fair, if he gets ahead at of the S40, he'll probably get most of the people waiting at Nicholas (where he'll have to stop anyway to let the Curtis kids off). 

 

As for why the S40 gets more crowded than the S44, I would guess the spacing of the S90 stops compared to the S94 stops has something to do with it. On the S94, if you live somewhere between two limited stops, you can generally walk to one of them fairly easily. On the S90, the limited stops are spaced further apart, so if you live near say, Morningstar Road or Clove Road or Bard Avenue, you're kind of forced to use the S40.

 

So perhaps a couple of stops could be added to the S90 to even out the crowds more. Of course, there's also my S42/54 proposal that would add some more local service along Richmond Terrace.

[Deucey]

I gotta be honest, I can see what the S44 driver is thinking: Why should he stop the bus and delay his passengers when the S40 is already available for people to board. Plus, to be fair, if he gets ahead at of the S40, he'll probably get most of the people waiting at Nicholas (where he'll have to stop anyway to let the Curtis kids off).

 

As for why the S40 gets more crowded than the S44, I would guess the spacing of the S90 stops compared to the S94 stops has something to do with it. On the S94, if you live somewhere between two limited stops, you can generally walk to one of them fairly easily. On the S90, the limited stops are spaced further apart, so if you live near say, Morningstar Road or Clove Road or Bard Avenue, you're kind of forced to use the S40.

 

So perhaps a couple of stops could be added to the S90 to even out the crowds more. Of course, there's also my S42/54 proposal that would add some more local service along Richmond Terrace.

Problem is combining the S42/54 like you recommend shorts service for us folks on St Mark's and Hamilton. The bulk of S52/42 riders that aren't highschoolers ride them to avoid walking to/from St George (hill that's almost as bad as any in San Francisco). And with one or the other roughly two people below crush load during peak until passing St Peter's Church, that'd exacerbate the problem.

 

Unless the S42/54 ran on St Mark's outbound and Richmond inbound, with two way on Westervelt. That might mess up the morning slightly, but it'd keep the evening as reliable as it is currently.

[checkmatechamp13]

Problem is combining the S42/54 like you recommend shorts service for us folks on St Mark's and Hamilton. The bulk of S52/42 riders that aren't highschoolers ride them to avoid walking to/from St George (hill that's almost as bad as any in San Francisco). And with one or the other roughly two people below crush load during peak until passing St Peter's Church, that'd exacerbate the problem.

 

Unless the S42/54 ran on St Mark's outbound and Richmond inbound, with two way on Westervelt. That might mess up the morning slightly, but it'd keep the evening as reliable as it is currently.

 

For the hilly part of St. George I would simply add some S52 short-turns (starting from Beach/Water in Stapleton or Castleton/Cebra or Jersey/Brighton, whichever one is most appropriate).

 

Of course, the other way would be to have the route run Prospect-York-Pauw-Jersey (which admittedly would be some tight turns) so at least it helps the S52 out a bit along Jersey Street. I do agree that in either case, there would need to be some extra S52 short-turns added.

[Deucey]

For the hilly part of St. George I would simply add some S52 short-turns (starting from Beach/Water in Stapleton or Castleton/Cebra or Jersey/Brighton, whichever one is most appropriate).

 

Of course, the other way would be to have the route run Prospect-York-Pauw-Jersey (which admittedly would be some tight turns) so at least it helps the S52 out a bit along Jersey Street. I do agree that in either case, there would need to be some extra S52 short-turns added.

Might require more buses, but doing your S42/54 combination full-time on Richmond and then running double S52 services during rush - start/end it at Tompkins/Hylan and have it piggyback the full route like the S42 currently does (or have it depart 7 minutes before or after the full route), that should solve it.

 

It'd be the opposite of how Limited routes work on SI - local stops near the north shore and limited for the rest, but it'd solve several issues short of trying to intro artics to SI.

[checkmatechamp13]

Might require more buses, but doing your S42/54 combination full-time on Richmond and then running double S52 services during rush - start/end it at Tompkins/Hylan and have it piggyback the full route like the S42 currently does (or have it depart 7 minutes before or after the full route), that should solve it.

 

It'd be the opposite of how Limited routes work on SI - local stops near the north shore and limited for the rest, but it'd solve several issues short of trying to intro artics to SI.

 

I think Tompkins/Hylan is overkill. I know a few people who went to Curtis who live in the Rosebank area and they all mentioned taking the S78 because it was quicker than the S52. I notice a lot of them go down the hill to take buses like the S74 & S76 that also run in the same general area as the S52 (some of them even go down the hill to wait with their friends and take the S42/52 back up the hill)

 

So yeah, I think Stapleton would be sufficient for the short-turn buses, and it's a fairly easy deadhead (so they can make an in-service trip, deadhead down Bay Street back to Stapleton to make another in-service trip and so on).

 

I might've missed it, but which limited stops would you have the S52 make? (With as meandering as it is, I think a limited would be rather pointless TBH). 

[bstar1]

What does this have to do with BX15?

[Around the Horn]

What does this have to do with BX15?

 

Actually, going back and reading the first page again, its quite clear.

 

limitednyc asks about the number of buses on the Bx15... 

GojiMet responds with check BusTime at peak periods...

ENY clarifies that some buses may not show up because they are shut off at the terminal...

Deucey quips that it must be why he has bad luck with BusTime on Staten Island...

which then leads to a discussion between Deucey, Checkmate and ENY about short turns and ways to run the S42/52.

[Deucey]

Actually, going back and reading the first page again, its quite clear.

 

limitednyc asks about the number of buses on the Bx15...

GojiMet responds with check BusTime at peak periods...

ENY clarifies that some buses may not show up because they are shut off at the terminal...

Deucey quips that it must be why he has bad luck with BusTime on Staten Island...

which then leads to a discussion between Deucey, Checkmate and ENY about short turns and ways to run the S42/52.

QFT, that digression. Took a thread about one of the two buses I avoid in the Bx whenever I see family there to explain why I miss the ferry relying on SI buses instead of walking down the Hamilton Av mountain.