SI Bus Study sort of up on MTA website

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Every time I take the limited-stop bus through there, every single person waiting at the stop (either Clove Road, Eddy Street, or Forest Avenue) boards the bus. Not a single person stands back and lets the bus go. That I'm confident on, and that's from years of using the S92 through there.

 

And nice of you to ignore the second part of my statement: The local buses actually get significant usage in that area.   You're talking 40-50 people per local bus, compared to what, 5 tops on the X30?

 

No, that part of Victory wasn't widened, and you want to talk about being full of crap. It's still one lane for left turns and another lane for right turns & through traffic and that's it. And the first X30 stop is with the local/limited buses on the southeast corner of Victory & Clove (again, more crap from you) but that's not actually where they layover. They layover near that baseball field down by Ontario Avenue.

 

Why haven't they suggested anything until now? Well for starters, you know how slowly the MTA goes about things. I don't even know if they were concerned about having buses layover in a congested area or if they were purely just concerned about ridership.

 

Yeah, from the perspective of ridership, I don't think it's a big deal to have the buses continue down Victory. But you're not going to convince me on some congestion-based argument. Maybe for restoring the X16 or something like that, sure, but not for sending the X30 down to Sunnyside.

The X14 is primarily used there anyway.  The X30 is an alternative, so naturally they're won't be that many people at the first stop.  However, there are plenty of apartment complexes on Victory where the X16 was used and where the X30 sees usage and that's the point.  It's those people that would be inconvenienced just to save a few minutes tops.  The X30s lay over at both stops. Some will layover at the actual first stop if they aren't going to be there for long.  Others will wait at the other location you mentioned.  Either way, I've never known either of the stops to cause such an uproar from a congestion standpoint, even if Victory wasn't widened there.  You just ride the local bus through there. I used ALL of the express buses that served the area for years.  I think I know more than you do about who uses what.  Local bus usage is strong along a good part of Victory.  No one ever disputed that and that was never the conversation to begin with, so it's completely irrelevant to the conversation, which is about the X30, NOT local buses along Victory.

[checkmatechamp13]

The X14 is primarily used there anyway.  The X30 is an alternative, so naturally they're won't be that many people at the first stop.  However, there are plenty of apartment complexes on Victory where the X16 was used and where the X30 sees usage and that's the point.  It's those people that would be inconvenienced just to save a few minutes tops.  The X30s lay over at both stops. Some will layover at the actual first stop if they aren't going to be there for long.  Others will wait at the other location you mentioned.  Either way, I've never known either of the stops to cause such an uproar from a congestion standpoint, even if Victory wasn't widened there.

 

 

Plenty of apartment complexes doesn't necessarily equal plenty of people on the express bus. The vast majority of those residents take the local bus.

 

In any case, yes, I agree with you that for the few people that use the X30 in that area, it will be an inconvenience. If the situation was similar to the way it is in the PM rush where things generally flow smoothly, I would have no problem with it.

 

In any case, is the X30 entirely out of Meredith or are there still some runs from Castleton (anybody can answer)? Because if all of them are out of Meredith, then buses need to go down Victory anyway, so at that point yeah, you might as well have them stop at all of the apartment complexes. For the layover, if there could be a way to have buses layover at Victory & Grand (the second stop, which is a local stop only served by the S62 in the morning rush), then that would be fine.

 

The main traffic is cars using Victory-Clove to reach the SIE. So as long as the layover point is east of the intersection (but doesn't block the frequent and busy limited-stop buses from picking up & dropping off people at Victory & Clove) that's fine.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Plenty of apartment complexes doesn't necessarily equal plenty of people on the express bus. The vast majority of those residents take the local bus.

 

In any case, yes, I agree with you that for the few people that use the X30 in that area, it will be an inconvenience. If the situation was similar to the way it is in the PM rush where things generally flow smoothly, I would have no problem with it.

 

In any case, is the X30 entirely out of Meredith or are there still some runs from Castleton (anybody can answer)? Because if all of them are out of Meredith, then buses need to go down Victory anyway, so at that point yeah, you might as well have them stop at all of the apartment complexes. For the layover, if there could be a way to have buses layover at Victory & Grand (the second stop, which is a local stop only served by the S62 in the morning rush), then that would be fine.

 

The main traffic is cars using Victory-Clove to reach the SIE. So as long as the layover point is east of the intersection (but doesn't block the frequent and busy limited-stop buses from picking up & dropping off people at Victory & Clove) that's fine.

They're all out of Meredith unless there's some issue. When there's a problem, then a bus may be sent from Castleon.

[161 New York]

I wonder now if both the X23 & X24 routes will finally be taken over by the MTA?

 

According to the report on page 19

 

 

Finally, the X23 and X24 express bus routes are funded by the New York City Economic Development Corporation and operated by Academy Bus. Given the comprehensive nature of this study, they are considered in the redesign plan. Changes to the X23 and X24 routes are expected to be cost-neutral or cost-saving to the operator.

 

The operator, being Academy Bus, I am guessing based on the language used by the MTA in the report, they don't foresee absorbing the routes. However, we have not seen any announcement in the press about Academy's contract being renewed as was the case in 2014.

 

I believe the contact between the NYC Economic Development Corporation and Academy Bus (assumed from Atlantic Express) is due to expire around September 2017. 

[161 New York]

So, I guess we have to start somewhere...

 

Before we go into specifics based off the map we need to see the obvious - route, days/hours of service and headways.

 

Some interim ideas based on my observations for routes I actually use and please note that THESE ARE STRICTLY MY PERSONAL OPINION:

 

x17

- The current x17C (Combo) should be eliminated and the x17C or what I like to call (Classic) should be restructured as follows: Instead of meandering around the Korean War Veterans Parkway, it should start around Woodrow/Bloomingdale, travel down Woodrow to Arden, and continue as regular route. This will serve a somewhat sizeable portion of the x22 service area (as defined by a 15 minute walk to a stop). Weekday off-peak should be 20 minutes until 4pm and be 30 minutes until 7pm.

 

- Select off-peak weekday x17J trips should start at the Woodrow/Bloomingdale Road terminal hourly as part of the above 20 minute headway suggestion OR at the bare minimum, select trips to correspond to traditional employer PM start times (3pm/4pm). I think it is a good way to take some of the stress off the x1 and give customers a faster route to Midtown.

 

- On the return the x17J should run from Manhattan to Staten Island until 10pm weekdays.

 

- The x17J should have some AM and PM Saturday "rush hour" service, 5-9a and 3-7pm.

 

- Weekend service to Staten Island should end at no earlier than 11pm.

 

- The Bay Ridge stop should be eliminated due to the restoration of the x28. Perhaps a local bus study should incorporate running a bus from the West Shore/North Shore area to Bay Ridge.

 

- Very few people (if any) actually take the SI Railway to the x17, per my observations. Anyone wishing to take a train to an express bus can currently travel to Eltingville or Old Town Stations for x1 service.

 

- x17A (Annadale) seems adequate

 

x19

- AM service is mostly adequate.

- PM service should continue until 7-7:30pm.

- The routing of this route should remain unchanged.

 

x21

More buses!

 

x22

- AM service routings need to be divided somehow as you can fill up a bus just by picking up on Rossville Avenue to “Checkpoint” especially in the 6am – 8 am hours.

 

- If I had to offer specific suggestions run more x22A's, but skip Outerbridge P&R, start select x22 trips only at Drumgoole and Bloomingdale.

 

- While potentially complicated and could cause confusion (this coming from a guy who has boarded the x31 instead of the x22 on MORE than a handful of occasions SOMEHOW), PM Trips during 4pm-6pm could travel to "zones" Rossville, Bloomingdale and Amboy/Hylan. All buses would stop at Victory Blvd and Checkpoint and then take the efficient route to its respective zone (an x22 Amboy/Hylan would drop off at Victory, Checkpoint, get back on the West Shore, exit at AR Kill Road, and loop around Page, Amboy, Craig, Hylan (or reverse). This could be easier in the AM going in, but if done right could help in the PM.

 

My x17C plan seems to solve the problem of x22 off-peak. Almost nobody uses the stretch from Tottenville to the "classic" start point of Woodrow/Huguenot due to length. The Outerbridge Park and Ride is so underutilized that I doubt anyone would miss it, if cut from the routes.

 

 

x23

Seems adequate, no need for off-peak and weekend service as my x17 plan should cover it.

If I had to change any of it, cut the Huguenot/Drumgoole to Seguine) and instead start at Captains Quarters (near Seguine) and do the regular route.

 

x24

It seems counter-intuitive for the bus to travel from Tysens Lane to Richmond Avenue in the AM and has always bothered me a bit and perhaps should be cut. Anyone who wishes to catch the x24 from these points could (and really should) use the s78 or s79-SBS to the x21. An x24 Richmond/Hylan terminal (instead of an Arden/Hylan terminal) can be kept just to give options. . If anything, since the bus uses Hylan to deadhead back to Manhattan for select PM trips, perhaps to better serve customers – certain PM trips can end at Tysens, others end at Hylan/Richmond.

 

 

 

 

That is it for now, I'll save the x1 for later.

[checkmatechamp13]

I will say that from what it looks like, they're going to get a lot of public feedback on it before they move in any direction with exact spans, stops to be removed, etc (Which is kind of annoying because the attitude seemed to be that they had no idea on which direction they planned to head it, and would do it all based on public feedback)

 

In any case, I think your X17 suggestion is decent. It covers the busier part of the X22 (not to say it doesn't get usage on the Tottenville end, though), but that being said, I do think Pleasant Plains & Tottenville should get some sort of off-peak service (which basically means I think the X22 should run off-peak in some capacity). Also, I think the X17 serves the Huguenot SIR station more as a park-and-ride than for actual SIR-X17 commuters.

 

For the X23, I personally think it meanders way too much. I like the way they just split it up and just had a route for Foster (which does seem to end around Captains Quarters) and had the routes down Huguenot, Arden, and Arthur Kill handle everybody else. On a side note, I wonder if the X31 replacing the X17A in Annadale was an attempt at keeping some Midtown service for those who don't want to walk to Arthur Kill Road.

 

On a side note (well, not really a side note since it's the main feature of their plan), what's your opinion about having everything go to Downtown or Midtown and getting rid of the combo routes?

[S78 via Hylan]

(I know you were asking 161, but I wanted to chime in) I prefer having buses going to Downtown or Midtown as it will speed them up and spend less time in traffic. If they do decide to keep a few Downtown and Midtown routes, they should eliminate low utilized stops (which is part of the plan anyway).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I will say that from what it looks like, they're going to get a lot of public feedback on it before they move in any direction with exact spans, stops to be removed, etc (Which is kind of annoying because the attitude seemed to be that they had no idea on which direction they planned to head it, and would do it all based on public feedback)

 

In any case, I think your X17 suggestion is decent. It covers the busier part of the X22 (not to say it doesn't get usage on the Tottenville end, though), but that being said, I do think Pleasant Plains & Tottenville should get some sort of off-peak service (which basically means I think the X22 should run off-peak in some capacity). Also, I think the X17 serves the Huguenot SIR station more as a park-and-ride than for actual SIR-X17 commuters.

 

For the X23, I personally think it meanders way too much. I like the way they just split it up and just had a route for Foster (which does seem to end around Captains Quarters) and had the routes down Huguenot, Arden, and Arthur Kill handle everybody else. On a side note, I wonder if the X31 replacing the X17A in Annadale was an attempt at keeping some Midtown service for those who don't want to walk to Arthur Kill Road.

 

On a side note (well, not really a side note since it's the main feature of their plan), what's your opinion about having everything go to Downtown or Midtown and getting rid of the combo routes?

The X22 should run 7 days a week to be honest. The X17 is simply stealing riders from the X1, X10 and X22 off-peak, which is fine, but run the X22 from Tottenville and let it have its own service. Either every 30 minutes or hourly during the busier parts of off-peak service, something like the QM15 has.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

X21 really needs more buses, especially during the PM rush. Took it yesterday, first bus was SRO at 7th ave, second bus was SRO, so I walked to Madison, extreme long line. Bus was gonna get full at that stop. So I walked to 1st Ave and got a seat. Bus was SRO by time we hit 8th Ave, where there were about 7 standees.

 

It should be every 15 mins from 4-6pm. X17J riders are taking it instead since it's a direct link to the ETC instead of going around by the mall, etc, down Richmond Ave. Then you also have some X1, X5, and X7 riders that would normally get on around 36th to 47th that are taking it who live along Richmond Ave between Hylan and ETC.

 

 

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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Via Garibaldi 8]

X21 really needs more buses, especially during the PM rush. Took it yesterday, first bus was SRO at 7th ave, second bus was SRO, so I walked to Madison, extreme long line. Bus was gonna get full at that stop. So I walked to 1st Ave and got a seat. Bus was SRO by time we hit 8th Ave, where there were about 7 standees.

 

It should be every 15 mins from 4-6pm. X17J riders are taking it instead since it's a direct link to the ETC instead of going around by the mall, etc, down Richmond Ave. Then you also have some X1, X5, and X7 riders that would normally get on around 36th to 47th that are taking it who live along Richmond Ave between Hylan and ETC.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There aren't supposed to be any standees on express buses going through NJ, so that will definitely have to be addressed if it's an ongoing problem.  

[Around the Horn]

There aren't supposed to be any standees on express buses going through NJ, so that will definitely have to be addressed if it's an ongoing problem.  

 

I haven't been on an express bus since the Prevost's arrived. I would assume there's no real place to hold on like the MCI's?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I haven't been on an express bus since the Prevost's arrived. I would assume there's no real place to hold on like the MCI's?

You would hold on just like you would on the MCI's.  The layout is similar save a few things.  I haven't had to stand in years though going back to when I would take the X10. I don't think either of them are for standing though.  The last time I did on the X10, I was literally almost on top of the B/O and thinking if the bus stops short, I could go flying through his windshield.  I haven't did that since and don't see myself doing it ever again. Will likely be on one this weekend though. 

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

There aren't supposed to be any standees on express buses going through NJ, so that will definitely have to be addressed if it's an ongoing problem.

Really? Is that a rule? I've seen people standing on X17Js, X31s, going through Jersey, and of course, the X1, X7 almost everyday. All the buses have fully seated loads when I see them come off the bridge. Or pass on the highway. (This is during rush hour (4-7).

 

 

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I haven't been on an express bus since the Prevost's arrived. I would assume there's no real place to hold on like the MCI's?

Most people hold onto the hand-bars on the seats (which can become very annoying if you're sitting on that seat, constantly feeling that persons weight jerking you back and forth), but taller people hold on to the railing of the overhead luggage racks.

 

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Really? Is that a rule? I've seen people standing on X17Js, X31s, going through Jersey, and of course, the X1, X7 almost everyday. All the buses have fully seated loads when I see them come off the bridge. Or pass on the highway. (This is during rush hour (4-7).

 

The X1, X7 don't matter because they don't go through NJ. However, the X17J and X31s going through NJ should not have standees.  This is a law on the books for New York City express buses going through New Jersey, so that applies to the X17J, X22, X30, X21 and X31 (PM).  I never saw people standing on any express bus I took via New Jersey, so I assume they'll have to address that at some point. 

[B35 via Church]

The X1, X7 don't matter because they don't go through NJ. However, the X17J and X31s going through NJ should not have standees.  This is a law on the books for New York City express buses going through New Jersey, so that applies to the X17J, X22, X30, X21 and X31 (PM).  I never saw people standing on any express bus I took via New Jersey, so I assume they'll have to address that at some point. 

I've been on several buses via NJ that had people standing on them... Personally, I think people are crazy to want to stand from PABT to the freakin Goethals (at minimum), but whatever.....

 

Anyway, I remember one ride in particular where we approached TSQ & the b/o specifically said "there's standing room in the back" - after someone shouted "THERE'S NO MORE SEATS BACK HERE" (which there weren't, because I was at the very back of the bus).... I was on my laptop at the time, and I said (under my breath, verbatim) "room to stand in the back, that's illegal".... Shrugged after seeing more people come towards the back to stand & continued doing what I was doing...

 

If that isn't bad enough, this guy (the driver) made pickups at PABT (8th av) also.... Long story short, not only were there people standing, there were people standing from the front to the back of the bus.....

-----------------

 

 

side note #1: Riders on the SI Expresses are good for blurting out that there are no more seats on the bus (riders on the ulmer park buses also tend to do that).... I've never been on a packed BM1/2 where anyone said anything of the sort..... What gets me when people say that though, is, what do they expect the person seeking a seat to do? Do an about face, disembark, and wait for a next bus.... I mean, who's going to do that....

 

side note #2: Someone care to explain this???

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've been on several buses via NJ that had people standing on them... Personally, I think people are crazy to want to stand from PABT to the freakin Goethals (at minimum), but whatever.....

 

Anyway, I remember one ride in particular where we approached TSQ & the b/o specifically said "there's standing room in the back" - after someone shouted "THERE'S NO MORE SEATS BACK HERE" (which there weren't, because I was at the very back of the bus).... I was on my laptop at the time, and I said (under my breath, verbatim) "room to stand in the back, that's illegal".... Shrugged after seeing more people come towards the back to stand & continued doing what I was doing...

 

If that isn't bad enough, this guy (the driver) made pickups at PABT (8th av) also.... Long story short, not only were there people standing, there were people standing from the front to the back of the bus.....

-----------------

 

 

side note #1: Riders on the SI Expresses are good for blurting out that there are no more seats on the bus (riders on the ulmer park buses also tend to do that).... I've never been on a packed BM1/2 where anyone said anything of the sort..... What gets me when people say that though, is, what do they expect the person seeking a seat to do? Do an about face, disembark, and wait for a next bus.... I mean, who's going to do that....

 

LOL... Believe it or not the BxM2 has started to become like this where you'll have them running in twos at night (were doing that a lot during the colder months, but has been better of late) and buses would be quite packed due to late and/or missing buses, so I'll get on and look to see if there are seats before I dip.  If not I have no problem getting off and waiting for the next one.  Forget about standing. I don't even want to sit next to anyone.  Can't put up with it anymore, especially since I rarely have to these days (maybe once a year if that).  It's bad enough dealing with little to no leg room, but it seems as if some folks are incredibly inconsiderate with the yapping on cell phones or just all around annoying. I also have to steer clear of a few nut jobs.  There's a guy that usually rides that apparently has Aspergers and does nothing but recite cartoons that he watches or shall I say yells them out while he re-inacts various episodes.  If his mother is riding with him, she'll tell "David" (apparently his name) that he's being too loud.  In some cases it's become so bad that people turn to the mother in outrage to tell her off (one of those how rude of you to have your son behave in such a manner) and then storm to the front to find another seat. lol I'm sure you can picture that since you know the types that ride on the BxM1 and BxM2. 

 

On the SI express buses, you had people that would do it, but I usually lucked out, but a couple of times, I had annoying people want to switch their seats to sit next to me while on my laptop, which is incredibly annoying.  I would become quite blunt, suck my teeth and ask them point blank "What is wrong with the seat you're sitting in?" Like really, I don't want you sitting next to me, and I make it clear anyway by sitting in the aisle seat. I mean hell I'm 6'4". Let me sit and have some peace and some leg room.  Most people get it, and will pull up the seat so I can sit without my legs being squeezed up.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

I've been on several buses via NJ that had people standing on them... Personally, I think people are crazy to want to stand from PABT to the freakin Goethals (at minimum), but whatever.....

 

Anyway, I remember one ride in particular where we approached TSQ & the b/o specifically said "there's standing room in the back" - after someone shouted "THERE'S NO MORE SEATS BACK HERE" (which there weren't, because I was at the very back of the bus).... I was on my laptop at the time, and I said (under my breath, verbatim) "room to stand in the back, that's illegal".... Shrugged after seeing more people come towards the back to stand & continued doing what I was doing...

 

If that isn't bad enough, this guy (the driver) made pickups at PABT (8th av) also.... Long story short, not only were there people standing, there were people standing from the front to the back of the bus.....

-----------------

 

 

side note #1: Riders on the SI Expresses are good for blurting out that there are no more seats on the bus (riders on the ulmer park buses also tend to do that).... I've never been on a packed BM1/2 where anyone said anything of the sort..... What gets me when people say that though, is, what do they expect the person seeking a seat to do? Do an about face, disembark, and wait for a next bus.... I mean, who's going to do that....

 

side note #2: Someone care to explain this???

Lmfaooo all of this is on point! This is everyday. I'm an X2/X5 rider, but I'll take the X21 for the fun of going through NJ. Standing on the express bus is unfortunate but some people have no choice, especially in the AM, and just don't care.

 

As for the stop on the turnpike. I was confused with that too. I guess its just a checkpoint so the GPS doesn't lose the bus? Some people even asked drivers why are their stops on the Gowanus(the via Gowanus routes have those "checkpoints?" too).

 

 

 

 

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[checkmatechamp13]

(I know you were asking 161, but I wanted to chime in) I prefer having buses going to Downtown or Midtown as it will speed them up and spend less time in traffic. If they do decide to keep a few Downtown and Midtown routes, they should eliminate low utilized stops (which is part of the plan anyway).

 

So you're in favor of having zero SI-bound express bus service between Worth & 23rd at any time of the day? (In other words, you favor the extreme the MTA is going to in terms of route consolidation). 

 

The X22 should run 7 days a week to be honest. The X17 is simply stealing riders from the X1, X10 and X22 off-peak, which is fine, but run the X22 from Tottenville and let it have its own service. Either every 30 minutes or hourly during the busier parts of off-peak service, something like the QM15 has.

 

Nah, with the route it takes down there, it's not stealing much of any off-peak X22 riders. They put me on a project down on the South Shore for a while, and at the beginning, I would see these empty X17 buses driving down Drumgoogle Road (to get to and from the park-and-ride), and wonder if it was some type of deadhead route or something....and then I realized they were all in-service buses carrying literally nobody. 

 

As for stealing X10 riders....if the X17 were removed from my neighborhood off-peak, you would have a riot. Let me put it to you this way: Most of the time when I take the X17 during middays, and we catch up to an X10 that left my neighborhood about 25 minutes prior. Granted they pad the runtimes a lot on weekdays, but you're not going to sit there and talk about it "stealing" riders when it saves that much time (it's a similar thing with the X1 out of the ETC, but to a lesser extent, and also the X1 has its frequency going for it that the X10 doesn't).

 

It looks like the MTA's plan is eliminating the X10 entirely. If the X17 gets improved to be a reliable route 7 days a week, I wouldn't blink twice, as would most of the express bus riders in my neighborhood. Give the X11 & X12 some off-peak service to cover people down by Gannon Avenue and up around Forest & Richmond (and have one of them run down Narrows Road to cover Concord off-peak), and you're good to go. 

 

The X1, X7 don't matter because they don't go through NJ. However, the X17J and X31s going through NJ should not have standees.  This is a law on the books for New York City express buses going through New Jersey, so that applies to the X17J, X22, X30, X21 and X31 (PM).  I never saw people standing on any express bus I took via New Jersey, so I assume they'll have to address that at some point. 

 

You haven't taken the X17J enough. I've been on plenty of X17Js where there were standees, both in the AM and PM rush (sometimes I was one of them, sometimes I was one of the last to get a seat).

 

The X31, I would attribute standees to a missing and/or extremely late bus, but the X17J doesn't surprise me at all. 

 

I've been on several buses via NJ that had people standing on them... Personally, I think people are crazy to want to stand from PABT to the freakin Goethals (at minimum), but whatever.....

 

Anyway, I remember one ride in particular where we approached TSQ & the b/o specifically said "there's standing room in the back" - after someone shouted "THERE'S NO MORE SEATS BACK HERE" (which there weren't, because I was at the very back of the bus).... I was on my laptop at the time, and I said (under my breath, verbatim) "room to stand in the back, that's illegal".... Shrugged after seeing more people come towards the back to stand & continued doing what I was doing...

 

If that isn't bad enough, this guy (the driver) made pickups at PABT (8th av) also.... Long story short, not only were there people standing, there were people standing from the front to the back of the bus.....

-----------------

 

side note #1: Riders on the SI Expresses are good for blurting out that there are no more seats on the bus (riders on the ulmer park buses also tend to do that).... I've never been on a packed BM1/2 where anyone said anything of the sort..... What gets me when people say that though, is, what do they expect the person seeking a seat to do? Do an about face, disembark, and wait for a next bus.... I mean, who's going to do that....

 

side note #2: Someone care to explain this???

 

Some of those people will turn around and get off the bus if they hear there's no seats. Generally, on those SI express routes, service is frequent enough that people won't (expect to be) waiting say, 30 minutes for a bus that's not as crowded.

 

And those checkpoints on the NJ Turnpike and Gowanus Expressway are there to refine the BusTime predictions and make them a bit more accurate. (So in other words, it's easier to isolate the sections where there's more traffic, so that when they make the schedule, it'll be a little more accurate compared to if there were no BusTime timepoints between say, Lamberts Lane & Rector Street on the X17 or something). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So you're in favor of having zero SI-bound express bus service between Worth & 23rd at any time of the day? (In other words, you favor the extreme the MTA is going to in terms of route consolidation). 

 

 

 

Nah, with the route it takes down there, it's not stealing much of any off-peak X22 riders. They put me on a project down on the South Shore for a while, and at the beginning, I would see these empty X17 buses driving down Drumgoogle Road (to get to and from the park-and-ride), and wonder if it was some type of deadhead route or something....and then I realized they were all in-service buses carrying literally nobody. 

 

As for stealing X10 riders....if the X17 were removed from my neighborhood off-peak, you would have a riot. Let me put it to you this way: Most of the time when I take the X17 during middays, and we catch up to an X10 that left my neighborhood about 25 minutes prior. Granted they pad the runtimes a lot on weekdays, but you're not going to sit there and talk about it "stealing" riders when it saves that much time (it's a similar thing with the X1 out of the ETC, but to a lesser extent, and also the X1 has its frequency going for it that the X10 doesn't).

 

It looks like the MTA's plan is eliminating the X10 entirely. If the X17 gets improved to be a reliable route 7 days a week, I wouldn't blink twice, as would most of the express bus riders in my neighborhood. Give the X11 & X12 some off-peak service to cover people down by Gannon Avenue and up around Forest & Richmond (and have one of them run down Narrows Road to cover Concord off-peak), and you're good to go. 

 

 

 

You haven't taken the X17J enough. I've been on plenty of X17Js where there were standees, both in the AM and PM rush (sometimes I was one of them, sometimes I was one of the last to get a seat).

 

The X31, I would attribute standees to a missing and/or extremely late bus, but the X17J doesn't surprise me at all. 

 

 

 

Some of those people will turn around and get off the bus if they hear there's no seats. Generally, on those SI express routes, service is frequent enough that people won't (expect to be) waiting say, 30 minutes for a bus that's not as crowded.

 

And those checkpoints on the NJ Turnpike and Gowanus Expressway are there to refine the BusTime predictions and make them a bit more accurate. (So in other words, it's easier to isolate the sections where there's more traffic, so that when they make the schedule, it'll be a little more accurate compared to if there were no BusTime timepoints between say, Lamberts Lane & Rector Street on the X17 or something).

 

I've taken the X17J plenty. What I left out is I generally don't travel during the heart of rush hour allowing to me avoid crushloaded buses. If you get some of the last X17J buses of the morning, they are crowded, but usually not SRO. If they were I would use another line to avoid that. I do that here too. I'm well versed with which buses get good loads and which ones don't and pick and choose which days I use what. Works like a charm. As for the X17 stealing X10 riders, it was since the X10 generally was the bus before the X17's hours were expanded off-peak and weekends.

[Deucey]

The X1, X7 don't matter because they don't go through NJ. However, the X17J and X31s going through NJ should not have standees. This is a law on the books for New York City express buses going through New Jersey, so that applies to the X17J, X22, X30, X21 and X31 (PM). I never saw people standing on any express bus I took via New Jersey, so I assume they'll have to address that at some point.

When I worked in Ramsey NJ, I would see standees on NJT buses bound for PABT. Does this law not apply to NJT?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

When I worked in Ramsey NJ, I would see standees on NJT buses bound for PABT. Does this law not apply to NJT?

No it doesn't, at least not that I know of, and if there is one, it would be on interstate routes that go through PA.  In fact crowding on NJT buses has worsened from what I've seen.  This is an interstate issue.  Most folks don't think about that, but the   is a NY agency sending buses through NJ.  I'm not sure how far back this law goes, but it's been in place for a while, definitely when I was living on Staten Island.  Now how strict they are in enforcing it is another issue, but I suspect that the will address the overcrowding mentioned by the next pick if possible, if not sooner just to avoid any issues.

[IAlam]

There aren't supposed to be any standees on express buses going through NJ, so that will definitely have to be addressed if it's an ongoing problem.  

 

 

Really? Is that a rule? I've seen people standing on X17Js, X31s, going through Jersey, and of course, the X1, X7 almost everyday. All the buses have fully seated loads when I see them come off the bridge. Or pass on the highway. (This is during rush hour (4-7).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Most people hold onto the hand-bars on the seats (which can become very annoying if you're sitting on that seat, constantly feeling that persons weight jerking you back and forth), but taller people hold on to the railing of the overhead luggage racks.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've seen standees on an X17J before, and I've been on an X22 with standees too.

[checkmatechamp13]

I've taken the X17J plenty. What I left out is I generally don't travel during the heart of rush hour allowing to me avoid crushloaded buses. If you get some of the last X17J buses of the morning, they are crowded, but usually not SRO. If they were I would use another line to avoid that. I do that here too. I'm well versed with which buses get good loads and which ones don't and pick and choose which days I use what. Works like a charm. As for the X17 stealing X10 riders, it was since the X10 generally was the bus before the X17's hours were expanded off-peak and weekends.

 

The X17's span on Saturday is essentially the same as it was when I first moved here in 2004. They added one earlier bus and one later bus. Big deal. Yeah, Sunday service was added to the X10 before the X17, but considering the ridership, it was a no-brainer to add it to the X17. Look at the weekend ridership increase over the past year. The X10 basically remained stagnant, while the X17 increased by 7.3%. Yeah, some people with no other options might stick to the X10, but I guarantee you that if the X17 didn't run off-peak, you'd see a ton of people driving to Fingerboard to catch the X1 or X10, because people don't want to sit through the grand tour of the local streets alongside the SIE. 

 

By saying the X17 is stealing off-peak X1 & X10 riders (and X22 riders? How do you steal off-peak riders from a route with no off-peak service?), you're basically saying you feel the X17 shouldn't have off-peak service, which is pretty ridiculous. If you think North Shore riders on the X10 should have more frequent service, just come out and say that. Don't sit there and criticize a route that regularly has a full seated load (or even standees sometimes) as if it's just some poorly-used supplemental route.

 

Not to mention it gets heavy usage down in New Springville as well, where it's the only off-peak express bus.

 

Maybe I think the X10 is just stealing some X1 riders. All those people lining up at Narrows & Fingerboard or Narrows & Hylan who just want a quick ride to Lower Manhattan....and they have the nerve of having the X10 stop over there instead of running more X1s, which is what passengers really want. (**sarcasm**)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The X17's span on Saturday is essentially the same as it was when I first moved here in 2004. They added one earlier bus and one later bus. Big deal. Yeah, Sunday service was added to the X10 before the X17, but considering the ridership, it was a no-brainer to add it to the X17. Look at the weekend ridership increase over the past year. The X10 basically remained stagnant, while the X17 increased by 7.3%. Yeah, some people with no other options might stick to the X10, but I guarantee you that if the X17 didn't run off-peak, you'd see a ton of people driving to Fingerboard to catch the X1 or X10, because people don't want to sit through the grand tour of the local streets alongside the SIE. 

 

By saying the X17 is stealing off-peak X1 & X10 riders (and X22 riders? How do you steal off-peak riders from a route with no off-peak service?), you're basically saying you feel the X17 shouldn't have off-peak service, which is pretty ridiculous. If you think North Shore riders on the X10 should have more frequent service, just come out and say that. Don't sit there and criticize a route that regularly has a full seated load (or even standees sometimes) as if it's just some poorly-used supplemental route.

 

Not to mention it gets heavy usage down in New Springville as well, where it's the only off-peak express bus.

 

Maybe I think the X10 is just stealing some X1 riders. All those people lining up at Narrows & Fingerboard or Narrows & Hylan who just want a quick ride to Lower Manhattan....and they have the nerve of having the X10 stop over there instead of running more X1s, which is what passengers really want. (**sarcasm**)

Yeah I'm saying it because of all of the people that take the X10 and get off at Richmond and Victory. Before the X17's span was increased, those people were on the X10. My issue with the is they're not giving the North Shore its fair share of service, so routes like the X17 get inflated while the X10 looks "stagnant".

The X17's span on Saturday is essentially the same as it was when I first moved here in 2004. They added one earlier bus and one later bus. Big deal. Yeah, Sunday service was added to the X10 before the X17, but considering the ridership, it was a no-brainer to add it to the X17. Look at the weekend ridership increase over the past year. The X10 basically remained stagnant, while the X17 increased by 7.3%. Yeah, some people with no other options might stick to the X10, but I guarantee you that if the X17 didn't run off-peak, you'd see a ton of people driving to Fingerboard to catch the X1 or X10, because people don't want to sit through the grand tour of the local streets alongside the SIE. 

 

By saying the X17 is stealing off-peak X1 & X10 riders (and X22 riders? How do you steal off-peak riders from a route with no off-peak service?), you're basically saying you feel the X17 shouldn't have off-peak service, which is pretty ridiculous. If you think North Shore riders on the X10 should have more frequent service, just come out and say that. Don't sit there and criticize a route that regularly has a full seated load (or even standees sometimes) as if it's just some poorly-used supplemental route.

 

Not to mention it gets heavy usage down in New Springville as well, where it's the only off-peak express bus.

 

Maybe I think the X10 is just stealing some X1 riders. All those people lining up at Narrows & Fingerboard or Narrows & Hylan who just want a quick ride to Lower Manhattan....and they have the nerve of having the X10 stop over there instead of running more X1s, which is what passengers really want. (**sarcasm**)

Yeah I'm saying it because of all of the people that take the X10 and get off at Richmond and Victory. Before the X17's span was increased, those people were on the X10. My issue with the is they're not giving the North Shore its fair share of service, so routes like the X17 get inflated while the X10 looks "stagnant".

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Speaking of the X10, they're going to eventually have to add more service during the week going to Manhattan. The last few X10 buses get quite crowded, not SRO levels yet, but not too far from it either.  I've taken buses at 21:00 and was shocked by how crowded they were, particularly along Richmond Avenue.