Article: AirTrain LGA: Why it should not be built

[Union Tpke]

This is an article I just wrote up on why the AirTrain to LaGuardia should not be built.

 

Here is the first part:

 

 

LaGuardia Airport is known for being considered inferior. Just ask former Vice President Joe Biden, who called it a “third-world” airport. The other two main airports in the New York City area are John F. Kennedy Airport, and Newark Liberty Airport. Both of these are more accessible via public transportation. There are AirTrains connecting the airports and commuter rail lines. The AirTrain JFK also connects to the A, E, J, and Z subway routes. While not a one-seat connection, they provide easy access to the airport. While LaGuardia is closer to Manhattan, it does not have a train connection to it. Currently, most people get there by car or taxi, clogging up the highways leading up to the airport. While the LaGuardia Link, the Q70 Select Bus Service, provides quick access to the airport (16 minutes from Woodside, and 10 minutes from Jackson Heights), there have been calls for better transit access to the airport. Governor Cuomo announced the plan for an AirTrain to LaGuardia in early 2015, proposing that it run between LaGuardia and Willets Point, where transfers would be available to the 7 and the Long Island Rail Road’s Port Washington Branch, which would have its service increased. This month, Parsons Brinckerhoff, was hired to desire the transit link. While on the surface it might seem like the right idea, when it is further looked at, it is clear that this helps noone, and that it is a political stunt by the Governor, who is clearly seeking higher office.

 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

The Governor wants an AirTrain to Willets Point. By definition, any alternative to that (no matter how viable or cost-effective) will suffer the fatal flaw of not being an AirTrain to Willets Point.

[Deucey]

^^Which is a shame since a cheaper waste of money that'd have the potential of being more useful would be building any of the expansion options for the light rail in Buffalo.

 

But that's not as sexy as building for the NYC hipster crowd.

[BreeddekalbL]

^^Which is a shame since a cheaper waste of money that'd have the potential of being more useful would be building any of the expansion options for the light rail in Buffalo.

 

But that's not as sexy as building for the NYC hipster crowd.

The obvious answer is to build an extension but you pretty much have the wall of vallone there 

that needs to stop and they should leave my city, (some want to know why do i have shade for hipsters, I'll tell you why, why is the city essentially bending over backwards for them in my days either you assimilate or fall when you came to this city that's how my mom made it when she came to here from the Philippines via LA.)

[Fan Railer]

The N extension to LGA will be shot down by NIMBYs every time. AirTrain to Flushing is a stupid idea, and yet no one has seriously considered having it go in the other direction; towards the Astoria Boulevard station via the Grand Central Parkway. Can't have NIMBY opposition when the ROW follows the highway, and it actually brings most people closer to their desired destination of Manhattan.

[Xfer2Nowhere]

The N extension to LGA will be shot down by NIMBYs every time. AirTrain to Flushing is a stupid idea, and yet no one has seriously considered having it go in the other direction; towards the Astoria Boulevard station via the Grand Central Parkway. Can't have NIMBY opposition when the ROW follows the highway, and it actually brings most people closer to their desired destination of Manhattan.

It would make more sense, but I've heard that an AirTrain going down the GCP would run into height issues because of how close the Runway 4 approach comes to the highway as well as the bridges over it. If it were built, it would have to be at or below ground level, which means more disruption during construction. A little today for less tomorrow, at least.

 

I've personally been more partial to scrapping the idea of it being a train and instead using the proposed ROW to turn the M60+ into a true BRT via separated bus lanes on the GCP with the only other stop in Queens being Astoria Blvd, with the Q19 or a variation of it picking up all the other stops.

[Deucey]

The obvious answer is to build an extension but you pretty much have the wall of vallone there

that needs to stop and they should leave my city, (some want to know why do i have shade for hipsters, I'll tell you why, why is the city essentially bending over backwards for them in my days either you assimilate or fall when you came to this city that's how my mom made it when she came to here from the Philippines via LA.)

Have you read this?

[Around the Horn]

The obvious answer is to build an extension but you pretty much have the wall of vallone there 

that needs to stop and they should leave my city, (some want to know why do i have shade for hipsters, I'll tell you why, why is the city essentially bending over backwards for them in my days either you assimilate or fall when you came to this city that's how my mom made it when she came to here from the Philippines via LA.)

 

Yeah, like its your city... Your "shade for hipsters" is just pathetic.

[Interested Rider]

We'll since the Emperor wants it, the peasants be damned and so it is with Emperor Andrew. He would have been stopped a long time ago if the investigative agencies that are supposed to protect us from his "favorite projects" would have done their job. Andrew is a typical politician who has an edifice complex and  the fact that his father was the governor gives him the hubris that he is superior to the rest of us. As far as the AirTrain from LaGuardia is concerned, it should have been never been suggested and if it had been by someone other the Emperor, it would have never seen the light of day.

[BreeddekalbL]

The N extension to LGA will be shot down by NIMBYs every time. AirTrain to Flushing is a stupid idea, and yet no one has seriously considered having it go in the other direction; towards the Astoria Boulevard station via the Grand Central Parkway. Can't have NIMBY opposition when the ROW follows the highway, and it actually brings most people closer to their desired destination of Manhattan.

 

would costa (the councilman in the vallone district) be as active as the vallone's were in opposition? 

 

also that would be wierd as hell go up to ditmars then come back down and over plus changing ends, but your still running into the problem of the ROW infringing into the approach path of runway 4 

[GojiMet86]

I've heard the opinion of someone, and it's one I don't think should be rejected. He says that one or some of the groups that have wanted to develop Willets Point donated quite a bit to Cuomo.

 

 

Sure enough, if you google, Sterling Equities and Related (Fred Wilpon) has donated $65,000 for Andrew Cuomo's 2018 campaign. Sterling had this deal with Bloomberg a couple of years back to redevelop Willets Point, but DiBlasio didn't want part of it because his group saw no affordable housing stuff. I don't know if anyone remembers, but back in 2013, Cuomo came up with this ethics group called the Moreland Commission to Investigate Public Corruption. But one of the names that popped up was Fred Wilpon and Sterling Equities, along with many others, who were trying to skirtin about existing laws and using loopholes to donate more than allowed. A year later, Cuomo unexpectedly closed the Commision.

 

 

You know who helped the Wilpons in fighting against the trustee representing Bernard Madoff’s victims, who accused the Wilpons of having knowledge of his scam?

 

Daddy Mario Cuomo.

 

 

 

 

Cozy relationship.

[Deucey]

would costa (the councilman in the vallone district) be as active as the vallone's were in opposition?

 

also that would be wierd as hell go up to ditmars then come back down and over plus changing ends, but your still running into the problem of the ROW infringing into the approach path of runway 4

PATH does it overnight and weekends, so it could be done, but it adds ~4 minutes to the trip.

 

Solution: to Ditmars and to LGA.

 

Or if that old QBL World's Fair cut is still there, run or to LGA via that and a new cut/tunnel.

[Wallyhorse]

As I said before, I would do it as part of a Queens SAS also stopping on Randall's Island as I would now do it:

Line breaks from the SAS either before or after the 116th Street station.  If before, it stops at a new station on 116th between 1st and Pleasant Avenues.  If it breaks after 116th, that has a stop on 124th Street between 1st and 2nd Avenues.  

Either way, the line makes two stops on Randalls Island: One at Icahn Stadium (underground), the other along Reilly Boulevard where the line goes elevated.

Line then goes across a new rail bridge to Queens with a stop at 31st Street north of 20th Avenue, well north of Astoria.

Line then goes to LaGuaradia and then runs the proposed AirTrain route to Willets Point with provisions to then continue in the future to JFK.  

[BreeddekalbL]

PATH does it overnight and weekends, so it could be done, but it adds ~4 minutes to the trip.

 

Solution: to Ditmars and to LGA.

 

Or if that old QBL World's Fair cut is still there, run or to LGA via that and a new cut/tunnel.

 

if that's the case would that mean giving the weekend service on your plans?

[BreeddekalbL]

I also discovered another problem you would have to pretty much demolish and rebuild a section of track to accomidate a Y style cross over to accomidate an diverting to LGA or sending the W to ditmars  also as the 2nd ave sagas/tumblr article suggests building it as an elevated would be a big problem 

[TheNewYorkElevated]

This is an article I just wrote up on why the AirTrain to LaGuardia should not be built.

I agree with what you said there. It feels like such a bad idea to do.

[Italianstallion]

It would make more sense, but I've heard that an AirTrain going down the GCP would run into height issues because of how close the Runway 4 approach comes to the highway as well as the bridges over it. If it were built, it would have to be at or below ground level, which means more disruption during construction. A little today for less tomorrow, at least.

 

I've personally been more partial to scrapping the idea of it being a train and instead using the proposed ROW to turn the M60+ into a true BRT via separated bus lanes on the GCP with the only other stop in Queens being Astoria Blvd, with the Q19 or a variation of it picking up all the other stops.

 

Don't know about those height issues -if so it would have to run at grade or in a cut, but the real issue is the GCP route being blocked by the Hell Gate viaduct at around 43rd St. Very serious engineering issues to get 2 tracks through there.

[Italianstallion]

If they're going to build this thing and charge $5 bucks fare like at JFK, plus subway fare, they should just make it a branch off the LIRR. The off-peak fare between Penn and Willets is $6.25 and the weekend City Ticket fare is $4.25. Just charge something like those fares and  most people would have a quick, reasonable one-seat ride to Penn Station. Folks wanting the subway could be given a free transfer at Willets to the 7.

 

 

[ConcourseExp]

Cuomo knows it's not just Willets Point that needs access to a nearby airport, right? In my personal opinion, Astoria and the South Bronx are badly in need of a new transit option: going to 125th Street and taking the M60SBS isn't going to cut it anymore. Extending the / to LaGuardia helps shave off about 15 minutes off someone's commute into the city. What's the point of having an AirTrain that serves two parts of Queens that don't see high levels of need and travel? This is a perfect opportunity to make a new rail line (whether that be the AirTrain LGA or a light rail) that connects more parts of the city. Not to mention the amount of construction needed to build such a large transit line. The subways are constantly breaking down//causing delays//etc.; but, however, let's not forget that if the subway system was up to date, Cuomo never would have considered making a new AirTrain a possibility.

[Rick44]

I say close the airport and be done with the crap. JFK can handle it.

[bobtehpanda]

If they're going to build this thing and charge $5 bucks fare like at JFK, plus subway fare, they should just make it a branch off the LIRR. The off-peak fare between Penn and Willets is $6.25 and the weekend City Ticket fare is $4.25. Just charge something like those fares and  most people would have a quick, reasonable one-seat ride to Penn Station. Folks wanting the subway could be given a free transfer at Willets to the 7.

 

Why should we be trying to give cheap alternatives to the airport? If you can afford a plane ticket and you can't spend an extra $5 on your trip, then you really shouldn't be making the trip at all.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why should we be trying to give cheap alternatives to the airport? If you can afford a plane ticket and you can't spend an extra $5 on your trip, then you really shouldn't be making the trip at all.

Or they could just take Uber and clog up the roads...

[BreeddekalbL]

Or they could just take Uber and clog up the roads...

 

or when the van wyck or gcp is brought to it's knees what do they do?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

or when the van wyck or gcp is brought to it's knees what do they do?

My response was sarcastic because people have been doing just that... Clogging up the roads leading to the airport, so I don't see too many other alternatives aside from cheaper transportation.  The potential revenue lost from people not using LaGuardia is worth such an investment.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

I say close the airport and be done with the crap. JFK can handle it.

 

Are you sure?