Bold Action Is Needed To Stop City Transit's Downward Spiral

[RES2773]

I wouldn't mind tolling all of the east river bridges. Those free bridges are a big part of the congestion within Manhattan. I know I've said this before on a different thread, but bridges like the throgs neck and whitestone charge high sums of money when people's only options are the Q44SBS or the Q50. And they still have to wait in traffic. Same for varazanno. Especially with toll booths becoming less and less common, smaller tolls could be applied to current tollways, or, it could be kept higher, and maybe, just maybe, transit fares could go down (or more realistically, not go up).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[bobtehpanda]

Yeah, whatever.

 

Take it from an actual Californian - me - everyone wants nice things but there's no traffic jam between LA and SF/Sacramento.

 

The bulk of travel between the NorCal and SoCal on roads is big rig. The supermajority of travelers do it by plane since it takes an hour.

 

And the two hour window promised between SF and Sacramento to LA requires making a new pass over the Tehachapi Mountains or tunnel underneath it. Going over it on the 5 is an 8% grade and ~50 miles distance BEFORE getting to Valencia, and then there's another set of mountains to get into the top of LA metro. And there are no rail lines until roughly 15 miles past that - Metrolink and Union Pacific's ROW.

 

It's why trains leaving LA either go to the coast in Santa Barbara or past Sab Bernardino to get around the mountains. Taking the fast way from LA by train requires riding an Amtrak bus to Bakersfield and then getting on the train, or doing the coast ride - which is 3 hours longer than driving it, and 10 hours longer than flying.

 

So unless the Authority plans on being saddled with hundreds of billions in debt to build the tunnel or a new pass - making the fares more expensive than flights (with or without subsidies), it'll never deliver on promises and it'll be another thing we wasted money on instead of doing something useful like building more reservoirs or funding the Forestry Dept fully to better maintain the wilderness so we don't have nonstop fires that unleash a helluva lot more pollution than this train claims to reduce.

 

And I'm a train buff through and through. As much as I'd love it to work, it'll never work like planned. Had they included freight operations with the plan, then maybe there'd be a chance.

 

OT, but from what I understand CAHSR is supposed to relieve LAX and SFO. Equivalent capacity upgrades to those airports would be just as expensive.

[Deucey]

OT, but from what I understand CAHSR is supposed to relieve LAX and SFO. Equivalent capacity upgrades to those airports would be just as expensive.

SFO is realigning runways to boost capacity for simultaneous takeoffs and landings. And half of flights to LA go to LAX; the rest split between three of the other four airports in LA/OC.

 

It's a solution looking for a problem.

 

What should've been done was a buildout of HSR corridors based on actual commuting patterns to ensure day 1 profitability/minimal subsidy, then worried about connecting NorCal with SoCal. This would've been like:

 

Reno/Tahoe-Sacramento-Oakland-San Jose (upgrading Amtrak's California Zephyr)

Sacramento/Modesto-Stockton-Oakland/San Jose

San Francisco-San Jose-Santa Cruz/Fresno (upgrading CalTrain)

Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto-Fresno-Bakersfield

 

SoCal:

 

Upgrade all Metrolink routes

Build a line between San Diego and Downtown LA via the Orange County Metrolink path

Vegas-San Bernardino-Riverside-San Diego

Vegas-San Bernardino-Downtown LA-Ventura

 

Because those are major commuter routes by road and air, HSR would've been more effective catering to the m-f job market and weekend road trip trend. Those trips would support building the backbone and give airlines a reason to stop flying short hauls inside California. But that's not what's happening.

[Porter]

Take it from an actual Californian - me - everyone wants nice things but there's no traffic jam between LA and SF/Sacramento.

 

You got me, I've spent the last eight years in Manhattan. Before that, though, I'd spent all of my life in San Francisco, so it doesn't get much more Californian than that.

 

I want HSR for my commuting needs and those of like-minded Californians. I am too impatient to drive to Los Angeles and too cheap to fly there. I'd rather pay a reasonable fare for a couple hours of commuting, from downtown to downtown, with no bookended bullshit. I'd like to live in San Francisco and work in Los Angeles, given my line of work and preference for clean air.

 

So freight compatibility should be added, why not? Tunneling under mountains? That sounds wonderful! A well-connected California is a strong California. I think it should even span from San Diego to Seattle, ultimately. The Pacific coast should catch up to Japan someday.

[Brooklyn]

It IS interstate and the responsibility of the state of New York and the state of Connecticut. Unless an entity like the PANY&NJ can be formed to issue bonds ALL of the taxpayers in both states are on the hook for the cost. Having residences in two states I can attest there are many NIMBYS in the NYC metro area. As a long time Brooklyn ( aka a Long Islander ) resident I find the residents of Nassau, Suffolk, and Richmond counties rank at the top of the NIMBY list. I can remember Governor Rockefeller proposing a crossing at the same time he proposed today's . I can't imagine how that's gonna go down to someone in Syracuse, Buffalo, or Ithaca today. Prince Andrew has the cojones to propose such a project but the cost compared to Rockefeller's time would be astronomical. Rockefeller should have rammed it through but he had presidential aspirations and needed the Nassau and Suffolk GOP behind him. That's today's history lesson. Carry on.

 

There really needs to be a way to get off the Island other than going through the city. Imagine a bridge carrying I-287 to Long Island...I immediately see relief for the Cross Bronx and Grand Central, LIE, Cross Island and Throggs Neck. Not to mention you have fewer people coming into Manhattan clogging up streets and burdening the tunnels and the GWB and Lincoln.

 

I agree--Rockefeller should have rammed that project through.

 

A big part of the congestion has to do with thru traffic--our roads really don't handle it well.

 

The problem is the roads are very Manhattan-centric.

[Deucey]

You got me, I've spent the last eight years in Manhattan. Before that, though, I'd spent all of my life in San Francisco, so it doesn't get much more Californian than that.

22 years in Sacramento here

 

I want HSR for my commuting needs and those of like-minded Californians. I am too impatient to drive to Los Angeles and too cheap to fly there. I'd rather pay a reasonable fare for a couple hours of commuting, from downtown to downtown, with no bookended bullshit. I'd like to live in San Francisco and work in Los Angeles, given my line of work and preference for clean air.

Did that drive down 99 and 5 to LA - always more fun driving there than driving back. It's the reverse whenever I drove to SF, but with Amtrak taking 2 hours to get to Richmond and that fare plus BART fare costing more than a tank of gas - even when it was $4.50/gallon - made it not worth it to me unless I was going to a Raider game.

 

If CHSRA focused on building it along higher utilization corridors (like the ones I listed earlier) this thing has a chance to not need stupidly high subsidies.

 

But just like the Ridge Route, the focus is on doing something rather than doing something smartly.