MTA warns subway riders after another stalled-train escape

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If they were to raise the fare to $5 per swipe, then the would make a ton of money in the short-run and it would significantly lighten the load on the system overall in the long-run. The only problem is pissing off millions of customers, including potential and ex-customers.

That's a good one... $5.00 for a filthy, rat-infested system... Yeah, no thanks. $10.00 a day people can use Uber or other options.

[YankeesPwnMets]

If they were to raise the fare to $5 per swipe, then the would make a ton of money in the short-run and it would significantly lighten the load on the system overall in the long-run. The only problem is pissing off millions of customers, including potential and ex-customers.

Raising the fare won't do anything. The #1 thing the MTA needs to get done is upgrade the signalling system, which is funded by the Capital Program. If I'm not mistaken, Cuomo controls the purse strings for that program, while fares go to the general fund.

 

Upgrading the signal system will do two things: increase the reliability of signals (ie. less "signal problems"), and allow the MTA to run more trains per hour on each line. Unfortunately, this will cost hundreds of millions and will most likely take decades. This, combined with decades of deferred maintenance on our current system, has left us with an extremely unreliable system that has no quick fix. 

[Mtatransit]

If they were to raise the fare to $5 per swipe, then the would make a ton of money in the short-run and it would significantly lighten the load on the system overall in the long-run. The only problem is pissing off millions of customers, including potential and ex-customers.

 

Well people still have to get to work somehow, its not like suddenly ridership will fall to manageable level. People couldn't suddenly decide to all not commute. it would cause hardship on many people

[RailRunRob]

Well people still have to get to work somehow, its not like suddenly ridership will fall to manageable level. People couldn't suddenly decide to all not commute. it would cause hardship on many people

@Yankee pretty much sums it up ultimately I feel this will cost The City of New York handsomely in the decade to come

Loss of Business and to a degree lost of population. It's not an easy fix and a very long game and it's going to get worse before gets better.

 

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Raising the fare won't do anything. The #1 thing the MTA needs to get done is upgrade the signalling system, which is funded by the Capital Program. If I'm not mistaken, Cuomo controls the purse strings for that program, while fares go to the general fund.

 

Upgrading the signal system will do two things: increase the reliability of signals (ie. less "signal problems"), and allow the MTA to run more trains per hour on each line. Unfortunately, this will cost hundreds of millions and will most likely take decades. This, combined with decades of deferred maintenance on our current system, has left us with an extremely unreliable system that has no quick fix. 

That's true, but on the other hand the seems hell bent on forcing people into a system that they can't even handle. I don't understand the point of aggressively cutting bus service when you have a rail system that is under so much pressure and stress.  If anything, encourage people to use OTHER options to take some of the strain off, and yes, we all know that the subway carries millions of people.  That's not the point.  They're struggling to keep up with demand. They need to admit that, and be open to people using other ways to get around.  Ferries, buses... Whatever it is... Do what's necessary to get the system fixed.

[Around the Horn]

That's true, but on the other hand the seems hell bent on forcing people into a system that they can't even handle. I don't understand the point of aggressively cutting bus service when you have a rail system that is under so much pressure and stress.  If anything, encourage people to use OTHER options to take some of the strain off, and yes, we all know that the subway carries millions of people.  That's not the point.  They're struggling to keep up with demand. They need to admit that, and be open to people using other ways to get around.  Ferries, buses... Whatever it is... Do what's necessary to get the system fixed.

Triboro RX is probably the best solution at the moment because it would allow for people to travel between the boroughs without going through Manhattan. Less people going through Manhattan that don't have to is always a good thing, because then that space is available for Manhattan bound riders.

[RailRunRob]

Triboro RX is probably the best solution at the moment because it would allow for people to travel between the boroughs without going through Manhattan. Less people going through Manhattan that don't have to is always a good thing, because then that space is available for Manhattan bound riders.

Indeed I agree an artery bypass can definitely alleviate some pressure.

 

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Triboro RX is probably the best solution at the moment because it would allow for people to travel between the boroughs without going through Manhattan. Less people going through Manhattan that don't have to is always a good thing, because then that space is available for Manhattan bound riders.

Problem is the system (I mean the entire system, not just the subway) is still VERY Manhattan centric.  That's another thing that forces people to go into Manhattan, even when they don't have to.  Try going east to west in the Bronx via subway... It's basically impossible.  You have to go into Manhattan from the Bronx and then go back into Manhattan. Queens and Brooklyn at times can require similar travel depending on your location. It's absurd that people can't get crosstown any faster.  

[RailRunRob]

Problem is the system (I mean the entire system, not just the subway) is still VERY Manhattan centric. That's another thing that forces people to go into Manhattan, even when they don't have to. Try going east to west in the Bronx via subway... It's basically impossible. You have to go into Manhattan from the Bronx and then go back into Manhattan. Queens and Brooklyn at times can require similar travel depending on your location. It's absurd that people can't get crosstown any faster.

Indeed The RX would be a step in the right direction to rectify this issue.

 

 

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[bobtehpanda]

Triboro RX is probably the best solution at the moment because it would allow for people to travel between the boroughs without going through Manhattan. Less people going through Manhattan that don't have to is always a good thing, because then that space is available for Manhattan bound riders.

 

RX is very chicken and egg though, since current land use patterns do not (heavily) support path along the RX's ROW like that. In fact I would go so far to say as the section of RX north of Jackson Heights is next to useless, since Metro North decided that a station on the Hell Gate at Astoria Ditmars would be too difficult, and I don't think anyone from the Bronx is trying to get to Jackson Heights for anything (Bronx-Brooklyn travel would still be faster through Manhattan)

[Porter]

Well people still have to get to work somehow, its not like suddenly ridership will fall to manageable level. People couldn't suddenly decide to all not commute. it would cause hardship on many people

 

That's why I said that it would lighten the load in the long-run, not the short-run. It would happen gradually over a long period of time. What would be sudden is an increase in profits, but that increase wouldn't be sustainable as more customers use alternative means of transit.

[Nellko]

Problem is the system (I mean the entire system, not just the subway) is still VERY Manhattan centric.  That's another thing that forces people to go into Manhattan, even when they don't have to.  Try going east to west in the Bronx via subway... It's basically impossible.  You have to go into Manhattan from the Bronx and then go back into Manhattan. Queens and Brooklyn at times can require similar travel depending on your location. It's absurd that people can't get crosstown any faster.  

Agreed. In-borough crosstown routes are something that desperately needs to be looked at, alongside outer borough-to-outer borough lines. It's a nuisance to have to go from the Bronx all the way into Manhattan and transfer just to get to Queens or Brooklyn, hence why lines like the Q44 and Q50 are so heavily used.

I personally think a line roughly following the current Bx12 SBS route is an absolute necessity, with how jam-packed that line and that corridor are pretty much 24/7. Perhaps it could have an extension south from Pelham Bay Park into Throgs Neck to serve the relatively transit-scarce southeast Bronx, as well. The 6 could be extended a stop or two north to stop at Bay Plaza and a few times in Co-Op instead, since it would connect to the new crosstown line at Pelham Bay Park anyway.

As for outer borough-to-outer borough, a line that runs from Fordham Plaza to Jamaica Center along the Q44 SBS's general route seems like it could work. It could connect to the aforementioned Inwood-Throgs Neck line at the southern end of the line (near Ferry Point Park).

From there it could likely dip westward to stop at LaGuardia Airport instead of proceeding straight to Whitestone, and from there make a stop on College Point Blvd, and then near the enormous shopping center over on 20th Avenue, before turning towards downtown Flushing. This would allow it to serve both LGA directly, and JFK indirectly via the AirTrain.

[bobtehpanda]

Is the Whitestone even capable of holding rail?

[Nellko]

Is the Whitestone even capable of holding rail?

I was thinking a tunnel should be built, actually, since the Whitestone's orientation isn't exactly conducive towards moving towards LGA.

Of course, this is entirely pie-in-the-sky, since no politicians seem to remember that the outer boroughs exist, save for western Brooklyn of course.

[RailRunRob]

RX is very chicken and egg though, since current land use patterns do not (heavily) support path along the RX's ROW like that. In fact I would go so far to say as the section of RX north of Jackson Heights is next to useless, since Metro North decided that a station on the Hell Gate at Astoria Ditmars would be too difficult, and I don't think anyone from the Bronx is trying to get to Jackson Heights for anything (Bronx-Brooklyn travel would still be faster through Manhattan)

Land use patterns don't support the RX? Not sure I follow.? Not sure I understand how Bronx to Brooklyn travel still faster via Manhattan? Give us a scenario for that. The is probably the fastest route from the Bronx to Brooklyn when it's at its best. The RX covers quite a few areas on Brooklyn's eastern end that aren't covered. Canarsie, Bushwick Ridgewood in Qns. Some of these Bklyn-Qns routes see ridership Q58 comes to mind don't think the RX would pull some of this ridership? This and the Second Ave are probably best way to get on top of adding capacity. On top maintaining in upgrading the current system. The MTA needs to teams working in tangent. The team that's going to work on the current state of things and the Expansion team making sure we don't get caught with our pants down again. The 4.5 Billion used for phase 1 of the SAS could've probably could've paid for a large portion of Brooklyn and Queens right of way. Can't see how you wouldn't get A good return on a medium investment.

 

 

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[bobtehpanda]

Land use patterns don't support the RX? Not sure I follow.? Not sure I understand how Bronx to Brooklyn travel still faster via Manhattan? Give us a scenario for that. The is probably the fastest route from the Bronx to Brooklyn when it's at its best. The RX covers quite a few areas on Brooklyn's eastern end that aren't covered. Canarsie, Bushwick Ridgewood in Qns. Some of these Bklyn-Qns routes see ridership Q58 comes to mind don't think the RX would pull some of this ridership? This and the Second Ave are probably best way to get on top of adding capacity. On top maintaining in upgrading the current system. The MTA needs to teams working in tangent. The team that's going to work on the current state of things and the Expansion team making sure we don't get caught with our pants down again. The 4.5 Billion used for phase 1 of the SAS could've probably could've paid for a large portion of Brooklyn and Queens right of way. Can't see how you wouldn't get A good return on a medium investment.

 

 

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Re: land use - the RX manages to miss a good deal of job hubs. Lots of people live along the RX corridor, but don't usually work there. Because parking is relatively plentiful in the outer boroughs and driving is not as difficult as it is in Manhattan, RX loses some competitive edge. Not only that, but the Bronx section of it is such poor value that it has changed alignment several times over the decades that it has been proposed - depending on the year it should either go to Yankee Stadium or Co-op City or anywhere in between. The Bronx section is also the highest investment given that south of Elmhurst the ROW is pretty much intact, whereas Hell Gate will be pretty congested once Gateway/Penn Access is done, and the ROW for the Bronx section straight up doesn't exist in certain cases.

 

The Q58 connects to Flushing. The RX does not. They serve vastly different markets.

[Mtatransit]

Re: land use - the RX manages to miss a good deal of job hubs. Lots of people live along the RX corridor, but don't usually work there. Because parking is relatively plentiful in the outer boroughs and driving is not as difficult as it is in Manhattan, RX loses some competitive edge. Not only that, but the Bronx section of it is such poor value that it has changed alignment several times over the decades that it has been proposed - depending on the year it should either go to Yankee Stadium or Co-op City or anywhere in between. The Bronx section is also the highest investment given that south of Elmhurst the ROW is pretty much intact, whereas Hell Gate will be pretty congested once Gateway/Penn Access is done, and the ROW for the Bronx section straight up doesn't exist in certain cases.

 

The Q58 connects to Flushing. The RX does not. They serve vastly different markets.

There is something called transfers, while the trains are not close to any job related area, it connects to many subway lines that do. With the mentality of that we would never have the . The RX proposal, help improve intra borough travel, connect to multiple lines providing redundancy in case one line breaks down. Just like how not every bus enters Manhattan, every subway line doesn't need to involve Manhattan

[bobtehpanda]

There is something called transfers, while the trains are not close to any job related area, it connects to many subway lines that do. With the mentality of that we would never have the . The RX proposal, help improve intra borough travel, connect to multiple lines providing redundancy in case one line breaks down. Just like how not every bus enters Manhattan, every subway line doesn't need to involve Manhattan

 

There's truth to it, otherwise the would have higher ridership.

 

The RX is not a bad line to have. The whole proposal from the Bronx to Bay Ridge isn't fully baked. The only sections worth building are the sections Jackson Heights and south.

[N6 Limited]

The RX is not a bad line to have. The whole proposal from the Bronx to Bay Ridge isn't fully baked. The only sections worth building are the sections Jackson Heights and south.

I agree, north of Jackson Heights it gets too close to Manhattan too soon, it should play a Q44 role and then perhaps a BX12 role, connecting subway lines toward the outer ends making travel between/within the outer boroughs more convenient/quicker. 

 

 

There's truth to it, otherwise the would have higher ridership.

 

 

With the now things have changed a bit, a re-extension to 71st Ave would now connect Park Slope, 4th Ave Line, Barclays/Atlantic Center, Ikea, New Developments in Downtown Brooklyn, LIC and Williamsburg, Q70 SBS to LGA, Queens Center Mall / Target Center, Austin St/Forest Hills, and easy cross platform Transfer to the which connects to the Airtrain in Jamaica. Certainly ridership would increase.

 

(It doesn't help that the headway seems long and the the train is short so people have to run to the train in order to not miss it and have to wait an eternity for the next one).

 

Remember, the ridership was low until it was made useful by using the Chrystie Cut, serving actual trip generators, which is also increasing housing Development in Ridgewood/Bushwick.

[bobtehpanda]

With the now things have changed a bit, a re-extension to 71st Ave would now connect Park Slope, 4th Ave Line, Barclays/Atlantic Center, Ikea, New Developments in Downtown Brooklyn, LIC and Williamsburg, Q70 SBS to LGA, Queens Center Mall / Target Center, Austin St/Forest Hills, and easy cross platform Transfer to the which connects to the Airtrain in Jamaica. Certainly ridership would increase.

 

I doubt it. The still has pretty poor connections for a crosstown, and on top of that is usually not faster than just using Manhattan to transfer. Basically the only scenario where it's faster is if you're trying to get to the or in Brooklyn.

 

If it were to be extended it would be the same situation where people would just take it to an express stop for the or and there would be very little through ridership.

[Eric B]

And right now, there's another similar scenario, on the at 125th St. (and apparently a small derailment, too).

[Mtatransit]

I doubt it. The still has pretty poor connections for a crosstown, and on top of that is usually not faster than just using Manhattan to transfer. Basically the only scenario where it's faster is if you're trying to get to the or in Brooklyn.

 

If it were to be extended it would be the same situation where people would just take it to an express stop for the or and there would be very little through ridership.

The suffers from old BMT/IND Division. That's why even though some transfers may seem logical it doesn't exist, the new RX will probably incorporate transfers. While the ridership will not be as high as trains into CBD, it will still carry more than any bus route in NYC

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And right now, there's another similar scenario, on the at 125th St. (and apparently a small derailment, too).

Tell me about it:

 

[RailRunRob]

There is something called transfers, while the trains are not close to any job related area, it connects to many subway lines that do. With the mentality of that we would never have the . The RX proposal, help improve intra borough travel, connect to multiple lines providing redundancy in case one line breaks down. Just like how not every bus enters Manhattan, every subway line doesn't need to involve Manhattan

This is sort of what I was alluding to RX to the 7 or the slow Q58? I Look at this as a bypass. Essentially a Better G Train with More Connections.

 

 

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