Jump to content

Cuomo Doubles Down on Not Controlling the Subway: His Office Claims NYC Is 'Solely Responsible'


CTK246

Recommended Posts


Are you f**king kidding me?

 

Vote this buffoon out of office next year...

 

I sure hope that there is a strong primary challenge. My dad voted for Teachout in the primary and for Hawkins (Green Party) in the General.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope that the emperor receives a strong primary challenge who can defeat him  as well as knowing the Republicans will not  nominate a strong candidate to run against him. Just a reminder that Gilibrand is up for re-election to the United States Senate and she is as good as re-elected as here again, the Republicans will nominate a total unknown who will run one commercial during the entire campaign

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

the new poll also found that more New Yorkers than than ever understand that Cuomo is responsible for the MTA.

I’ve been spreading the word. Every time I get into a conversation with a frustrated straphanger, I make it a point to highlight the gov’s role in it, his grubby hands stealing money from MTA coffers, and his glory-hogging moments on the media.

 

If anyone is particularly resourceful, I urge the printing and distribution of fact sheets to fellow straphangers. I will contribute content if needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope that the emperor receives a strong primary challenge who can defeat him  as well as knowing the Republicans will not  nominate a strong candidate to run against him. Just a reminder that Gilibrand is up for re-election to the United States Senate and she is as good as re-elected as here again, the Republicans will nominate a total unknown who will run one commercial during the entire campaign

 

Astorino came pretty close and won basically every county except the five boroughs. The machine is strong here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I said on the shout box, who was the *one person* who singlehandedly shut down the city's bus and subway system during our last snowstorm?

 

Bill de Blasio didn't make that decision. Polly Trottenberg didn't make that decision either. And contrary to what some have said, neither Tom Prendergast, Darryl Irick, nor Ronnie Hakim shut down the city transit system during that snowstorm.

 

Cuomo's got some nerve saying that the city is *solely* responsible for the subway system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I said on the shout box, who was the *one person* who singlehandedly shut down the city's bus and subway system during our last snowstorm?

 

Bill de Blasio didn't make that decision. Polly Trottenberg didn't make that decision either. And contrary to what some have said, neither Tom Prendergast, Darryl Irick, nor Ronnie Hakim shut down the city transit system during that snowstorm.

 

Cuomo's got some nerve saying that the city is *solely* responsible for the subway system.

Well it isn't only him saying it.  Lhota is too, citing what's written in the books as the official policy.  What they're doing is trying to get the City to cough up more money.  Right now the City is swimming in cash (something like a $4 billion dollar surplus) and Cuomo has said that the City should be giving more.  I agree with that too.  De Blasio has been in bed with the developers who in turn are exacerbating the overcrowding and subway crisis that we have.  It is the City that has a say in re-zoning areas to become residential, adding more people to use the subway day by day.  From that end of the spectrum, yes the City should be coughing up more.  If you look at areas like the Bronx where you saw tons of empty lots, you now see new buildings, mainly being paid for by the City and or developers. In some cases, entire neighborhoods are being transformed, so those people have to get around somehow.  You don't think the City should bear that responsibility?

 

In fact it's a topic that has come up in my neighborhood too, and the first thing we point to with any sort of massive development is, what about parking? What about transportation? You have no idea what is in store for the City from a residential development standpoint.  I'm already aware of it because we've been fighting these projects and stopping them because there is no infrastructure in place to deal with the hoards of people that would come.  De Blasio is technically right, and he's also going to keep pointing to the fact that the City gave more than what they're required to legally to make him look good, but he knows damn well that given how he's rezoning entire areas, that simply won't be enough in just a few years. Look at the SAS.  The developers are already building like crazy over there and before you know it, the (Q) will be even more of a madhouse than what it is.

 

When de Blasio first took over, he had an extremely aggressive housing policy to reduce homelessness. Something like 200,000 units... Think about that for a second.  That's not one person per unit either.  He has since backed down on that, but those buildings have to go somewhere, and they're going to try to force them on whatever neighborhoods that don't stop them.  You're seeing it across the city. Queens.... The Bronx... Anywhere the City can get land for cheap or take over buildings, they're doing just that.  Given how much affordable housing is going up, we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with how many people will need the subways and buses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it isn't only him saying it.  Lhota is too, citing what's written in the books as the official policy.  What they're doing is trying to get the City to cough up more money.  Right now the City is swimming in cash (something like a $4 billion dollar surplus) and Cuomo has said that the City should be giving more.  I agree with that too.  De Blasio has been in bed with the developers who in turn are exacerbating the overcrowding and subway crisis that we have.  It is the City that has a say in re-zoning areas to become residential, adding more people to use the subway day by day.  From that end of the spectrum, yes the City should be coughing up more.  If you look at areas like the Bronx where you saw tons of empty lots, you now see new buildings, mainly being paid for by the City and or developers. In some cases, entire neighborhoods are being transformed, so those people have to get around somehow.  You don't think the City should bear that responsibility?

 

The city has made its largest contribution in history. To a state-run agency, which benefits from the tax dollars of the developments and buildings that are being built. Did you forget about that? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The city has made its largest contribution in history. To a state-run agency, which benefits from the tax dollars of the developments and buildings that are being built. Did you forget about that? 

I edited what I wrote.  Please go back and read it as I added more to what I wrote.  Putting all of the political posturing and BS that has been going on with both Cuomo and de Blasio aside, I've been very upfront about this being a City and a State problem because it is.  I've also said that the (MTA) has not been aggressive enough with their real estate ventures to maximize profit from that.  Of the properties that they own, there are still too many vacancies, monies that would go back to the (MTA).  Yes, Cuomo should be coughing up more too, but I am not going to sit back and let de Blasio off of the hook given what I know about his agenda and his shady handshake deals with the developers that he claimed he was against during his campaign run.  He ran on the premise of being for the little guy.  He's continued what Bloomberg started, and has policies in place that favor developers and his agenda of creating as many new units as possible.  The fact that the City wants to create tons of affordable housing isn't a terrible thing.  It's an issue when you look at the amount of units they want to implement in relation to how much they're contributing to the (MTA).  It's a pittance.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with VG8 here. The state took control of NYCTA because -- among other reasons -- the city couldn't pay for upkeep. The situation has changed now. They can pay. They should take, say, half of that four billion and pay up into the capital program. Already the state is picking up the tab for a lot of system operation/capital costs, and frankly, many of the benefits of these expenditures come flowing into city coffers, with tax revenue, development and civic attractiveness all being enhanced by the system. To keep the cycle of value-adding going, the city duly needs to reinvest. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with VG8 here. The state took control of NYCTA because -- among other reasons -- the city couldn't pay for upkeep. The situation has changed now. They can pay. They should take, say, half of that four billion and pay up into the capital program. Already the state is picking up the tab for a lot of system operation/capital costs, and frankly, many of the benefits of these expenditures come flowing into city coffers, with tax revenue, development and civic attractiveness all being enhanced by the system. To keep the cycle of value-adding going, the city duly needs to reinvest. 

Instead, de Blasio is going to try be firm and say well we've met our legal obligations and then some, and if you take that at face value, you can't dispute that. Dig further and then it becomes very obvious what is going on.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I edited what I wrote.  Please go back and read it as I added more to what I wrote.  Putting all of the political posturing and BS that has been going on with both Cuomo and de Blasio aside, I've been very upfront about this being a City and a State problem because it is.  I've also said that the (MTA) has not been aggressive enough with their real estate ventures to maximize profit from that.  Of the properties that they own, there are still too many vacancies, monies that would go back to the (MTA).  Yes, Cuomo should be coughing up more too, but I am not going to sit back and let de Blasio off of the hook given what I know about his agenda and his shady handshake deals with the developers that he claimed he was against during his campaign run.  He ran on the premise of being for the little guy.  He's continued what Bloomberg started, and has policies in place that favor developers and his agenda of creating as many new units as possible.  The fact that the City wants to create tons of affordable housing isn't a terrible thing.  It's an issue when you look at the amount of units they want to implement in relation to how much they're contributing to the (MTA).  It's a pittance.  

 

Creating as many units as possible is not being in bed with developers, it's building new housing. You're also missing the most important, obvious point. Because the MTA is a STATE agency funded by STATE tax collars, every new development generates revenue that goes to the STATE, not the city. If the city were making money off of those developments, you'd have somewhat of a point. But that's not how taxes work. I also disagree that there are 'handshake' deals. 

 

I'm with VG8 here. The state took control of NYCTA because -- among other reasons -- the city couldn't pay for upkeep. The situation has changed now. They can pay. They should take, say, half of that four billion and pay up into the capital program. Already the state is picking up the tab for a lot of system operation/capital costs, and frankly, many of the benefits of these expenditures come flowing into city coffers, with tax revenue, development and civic attractiveness all being enhanced by the system. To keep the cycle of value-adding going, the city duly needs to reinvest. 

 

The city has offered to take control. You can read the mayor's comments. He has asked to have control of the subways. But the state refuses to cede control and Cuomo has insisted he take full control of the board. Well, you can't have things both ways. Either he lets the city run it and pay for it, or he keeps it and funds it. The notion that the state has been 'picking up the tab' is ridiculous. City tax revenue (which in no small part are a result of the economic engine that is the transportation network) goes to the state. NYC funds the state with its tax dollars, and in the process pays for state agencies like the MTA. And if you wanted half of that four billion, the city already gave $2.5--an absurdly large commitment, larger than any in history. I don't really follow your logic here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Creating as many units as possible is not being in bed with developers, it's building new housing. You're also missing the most important, obvious point. Because the MTA is a STATE agency funded by STATE tax collars, every new development generates revenue that goes to the STATE, not the city. If the city were making money off of those developments, you'd have somewhat of a point. But that's not how taxes work. I also disagree that there are 'handshake' deals. 

You are very naïve if you don't think that de Blasio is not returning favors to developers that supported his campaign when he ran.  There have been a number of incidents that say otherwise, such as the very shady Rivington deal, as well as the NYCHA bid. I work on bids, so I know how it works and how the language in bids is often rigged to favor certain contractors.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/developer-won-nycha-building-bid-de-blasio-donor-records-article-1.3177731

 

http://gothamist.com/2016/08/11/bedford_union_armory_update.php

 

The links aren't from the Post, so you can refrain from salivating about how "horrible" the reporting is.  <_<

 

How you can sit here with a straight face and argue that new development doesn't benefit the City is just hilarious. I used to work with a GC, and one of the ways that you can tell how well the City is doing financially is simply by looking around while walking down the street.  There is scaffolding all over the place and work permits galore.  You think that surplus is just by luck?  Development is big business for the City as well, and they are making a killing.  The developers don't mind the costs because they are too are making record profits, so everyone is happy.

 

Meanwhile the subways become more packed by the day as former industrial areas that saw little traffic have now become actual communities.  Make no mistake about it.  Bloomberg started an aggressive marketing campaign to boost up tourism here and it's been very effective not only in bringing in tons of revenues, but also in bringing in new residents with deep pockets to move here permanently. The City benefits from all of this, and somehow they shouldn't be expected to contribute more because they've met their legal obligations.   :lol:  What I'm trying to say is the City has aided quite well in exacerbating the subway problems that plague the system, and now they're standing by and saying well hey, we've given WAYYY more than any time before as if they're being oh so generous just because.  They know the deal. Read between the lines my friend... Yes, Cuomo technically runs the show, but let's not sit here and act like the City is the victim in all of this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The City's contribution to the MTA is not the real issue here. That is some unrelated excuse that Cuomo brings up, as if to say DiBlasio's New York City is holding up repairs and therefore is responsible for the delays. And ViaGaribaldi8 always tries to push this excuse as well because he hates DiBlasio.
 
 

But that is NOT the issue.

 

The TRUE and REAL issue here is that Cuomo is always distancing himself from saying he has control over the MTA, when the facts are that he controls the plurality of the votes on the board, and he appoints the MTA's chair and control its budget.
 
He controls the MTA.
 
PERIOD.
 
If he wanted to, he could play the big HERO and save the Subway from communist DiBlasio and his City thugs.

 

 

When everything good is happening (new CITY subway cars, new CITY buses) he is in the front page.

But when the shit hits the fan, he denies he has control over the MTA.

 

 

 

If it's good, Cuomo takes credit.

If it's a train derailment, a fire, or a gazillion delays, then it's on DiBlasio and City for "not paying their fair share".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The City's contribution to the MTA is not the real issue here. That is some unrelated excuse that Cuomo brings up, as if to say DiBlasio's New York City is holding up repairs and therefore is responsible for the delays. And ViaGaribaldi8 always tries to push this excuse as well because he hates DiBlasio.

 

 

But that is NOT the issue.

 

The TRUE and REAL issue here is that Cuomo is always distancing himself from saying he has control over the MTA, when the facts are that he controls the plurality of the votes on the board, and he appoints the MTA's chair and control its budget.

 

He controls the MTA.

 

PERIOD.

 

If he wanted to, he could play the big HERO and save the Subway from communist DiBlasio and his City thugs.

 

 

When everything good is happening (new CITY subway cars, new CITY buses) he is in the front page.

But when the shit hits the fan, he denies he has control over the MTA.

 

 

 

If it's good, Cuomo takes credit.

If it's a train derailment, a fire, or a gazillion delays, then it's on DiBlasio and City for "not paying their fair share".

If Cuomo truly runs the show, then the mayor should relinquish the seats that he controls on the board.  It's that simple.  Give full control of the board to Cuomo and then you can put all of the blame on him fair and square.  I don't think de Blasio really wants full control of the (MTA) because quite frankly, I don't think he could manage it.  His administration has shown time and again that they can't handle a budget to save their lives.  Look at the overages in costs for the Ferry service.  

 

They're spending money like wildfire, and there's so much money coming in that they don't even know what to do with it.  It's ridiculous.  He's going to act tough and act like he gives a damn about the subway because it's an election year.  Meanwhile, every day he gets into a gas guzzling SUV to go a gym all the way in Park Slope passing a plethora of them on the Upper East Side where Gracie Mansion is.  A complete and utter hypocrite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The 'scandals' you reference are, when you actually read the stories, grasping at a whole lot of nothing. Especially compared to the comically corrupt governor. 

 

Obviously the city benefits from development. But the state monetarily benefits. Those are STATE tax dollars being collected, part of NYC massively oversized commitment to the state. The argument that the subway benefits the city more than the State is not right. The city HAS contributed more, which is what's so bizarre to me about your comments. Nor has the city tried to just 'sit around.' de Blasio has said he wants more city control to take action, and Cuomo has refused. I don't understand if you're not reading the news or just ignoring it. 

If Cuomo truly runs the show, then the mayor should relinquish the seats that he controls on the board.  It's that simple.  Give full control of the board to Cuomo and then you can put all of the blame on him fair and square.  I don't think de Blasio really wants full control of the (MTA) because quite frankly, I don't think he could manage it.  His administration has shown time and again that they can't handle a budget to save their lives.  Look at the overages in costs for the Ferry service.  

 

They're spending money like wildfire, and there's so much money coming in that they don't even know what to do with it.  It's ridiculous.  He's going to act tough and act like he gives a damn about the subway because it's an election year.  Meanwhile, every day he gets into a gas guzzling SUV to go a gym all the way in Park Slope passing a plethora of them on the Upper East Side where Gracie Mansion is.  A complete and utter hypocrite.

 

You can't have these claims both way. The city has a massive surplus and have union contract in check, along with massive new housing programs, and yet they can't balance a budget? You point to the ferries? What are you even talking about? 

 

Secondly, why would the city cede the only minor, formality-only advocates he has on the board? And why Cuomo take any more control with that power?

 

The SUV claim is stupid, too, and you know it. Name a single elected official who commutes by subway, and try to make a case it's a good idea for the mayor to be trapped underground if anything ever goes wrong. I know that you hate the mayor, but at least try to make decent arguments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Cuomo truly runs the show, then the mayor should relinquish the seats that he controls on the board.  It's that simple.  Give full control of the board to Cuomo and then you can put all of the blame on him fair and square.  I don't think de Blasio really wants full control of the (MTA) because quite frankly, I don't think he could manage it.  His administration has shown time and again that they can't handle a budget to save their lives.  Look at the overages in costs for the Ferry service.  

 

They're spending money like wildfire, and there's so much money coming in that they don't even know what to do with it.  It's ridiculous.  He's going to act tough and act like he gives a damn about the subway because it's an election year.  Meanwhile, every day he gets into a gas guzzling SUV to go a gym all the way in Park Slope passing a plethora of them on the Upper East Side where Gracie Mansion is.  A complete and utter hypocrite.

 

 

 

...And none this is relevant to the fact that in good times Cuomo loves to say he controls the MTA and how in bad times Cuomo keeps denying he controls the MTA. 

 

DiBlasio is a red herring that Cuomo and you intentionally push.

 

No one gives a shit about DiBlasio here.

 

 

 

This is all about Cuomo and his inability to handle the actual crisis the MTA finds itself in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 'scandals' you reference are, when you actually read the stories, grasping at a whole lot of nothing. Especially compared to the comically corrupt governor. 

 

Obviously the city benefits from development. But the state monetarily benefits. Those are STATE tax dollars being collected, part of NYC massively oversized commitment to the state. The argument that the subway benefits the city more than the State is not right. The city HAS contributed more, which is what's so bizarre to me about your comments. Nor has the city tried to just 'sit around.' de Blasio has said he wants more city control to take action, and Cuomo has refused. I don't understand if you're not reading the news or just ignoring it. 

 

You can't have these claims both way. The city has a massive surplus and have union contract in check, along with massive new housing programs, and yet they can't balance a budget? You point to the ferries? What are you even talking about? 

 

Secondly, why would the city cede the only minor, formality-only advocates he has on the board? And why Cuomo take any more control with that power?

 

The SUV claim is stupid, too, and you know it. Name a single elected official who commutes by subway, and try to make a case it's a good idea for the mayor to be trapped underground if anything ever goes wrong. I know that you hate the mayor, but at least try to make decent arguments.

Wait a minute... So you're telling me you're fine with our mayor jumping into a gas guzzling SUV every friggin' day to go all the way to Park Slope just to work out? What's wrong with the gyms on the Upper East Side?  Don't make me laugh.  If Bloomberg was good enough to take a photo op for the subway, then so is de Blasio.  I point to the ferries because they've been extremely expensive to implement, and the City is spending wayyy more than they estimated, that's why.  Now you're feigning ignorance about the high costs when you're the same guy that talks about slashing express bus service because the subsidies are so high, but suddenly you're unaware of the massive subsidy for the new ferry service. LOL

 

Regarding your comments about the State benefiting from a monetary standpoint, so does the City.  All of those new developments mean new restaurants and more regulations from the City means more taxes collected, not to mention more people moving here that have higher incomes, which means they pay more in City taxes.  Who are you trying to fool with this nonsense about the State being the only ones benefiting monetarily. Even the deal with NYCHA has the City making out like bandits.  They're selling off whatever they can to absolve themselves of as many of the costs associated with the upkeep and maintenance of those money pits as possible, and rightfully so, but the point is they're making money in so many areas right now.  

 

Again, de Blasio can run his mouth about wanting control, but I don't think he can handle it.  This is a man that has wasted monies on expensive trash bags and is now spending $32 million dollars on a plan to mitigate our rat problem by bringing in fancy garbage cans that will likely do nothing more but exacerbate the problem further and you think he can handle the (MTA):lol:

 

 

...And none this is relevant to the fact that in good times Cuomo loves to say he controls the MTA and how in bad times Cuomo keeps denying he controls the MTA. 

 

DiBlasio is a red herring that Cuomo and you intentionally push.

 

No one gives a shit about DiBlasio here.

 

 

 

This is all about Cuomo and his inability to handle the actual crisis the MTA finds itself in.

And that's exactly what de Blasio wants people like you to believe... That's he's completely innocent in all of this because the City has met their legal obligations...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait a minute... So you're telling me you're fine with our mayor jumping into a gas guzzling SUV every friggin' day to go all the way to Park Slope just to work out? What's wrong with the gyms on the Upper East Side?  Don't make me laugh.  If Bloomberg was good enough to take a photo op for the subway, then so is de Blasio.  I point to the ferries because they've been extremely expensive to implement, and the City is spending wayyy more than they estimated, that's why.  Now you're feigning ignorance about the high costs when you're the same guy that talks about slashing express bus service because the subsidies are so high, but suddenly you're unaware of the massive subsidy for the new ferry service. LOL

 

Regarding your comments about the State benefiting from a monetary standpoint, so does the City.  All of those new developments mean new restaurants and more regulations from the City means more taxes collected, not to mention more people moving here that have higher incomes, which means they pay more in City taxes.  Who are you trying to fool with this nonsense about the State being the only ones benefiting monetarily. Even the deal with NYCHA has the City making out like bandits.  They're selling off whatever they can to absolve themselves of as many of the costs associated with the upkeep and maintenance of those money pits as possible, and rightfully so, but the point is they're making money in so many areas right now.  

 

The gym trip to Park Slope is a complete waste of time which he should stop doing. But using a car w/ police detail to get around is practical and secure for a major elected official. If you're playing the photo op game, I believe de Blasio took the train almost every day last week. The ferry investment is a pittance, and it's also essential to serve neighborhoods without good enough transit access. If demand increases, the subsidy will fall. That's how those work.

 

I don't know if you ignored my entire paragraph, but my point is that they BOTH benefit, which is why it's so incredibly stupid to say that the city's been benefiting more and thus should spend more. The city's commitment, for a service it doesn't even run, is incredibly high. NYC residents pay half of half of all NYS income tax, but they aren't given municipal funding back. The state constantly hangs the city out to dry and underfunds them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The gym trip to Park Slope is a complete waste of time which he should stop doing. But using a car w/ police detail to get around is practical and secure for a major elected official. If you're playing the photo op game, I believe de Blasio took the train almost every day last week. The ferry investment is a pittance, and it's also essential to serve neighborhoods without good enough transit access. If demand increases, the subsidy will fall. That's how those work.

 

I don't know if you ignored my entire paragraph, but my point is that they BOTH benefit, which is why it's so incredibly stupid to say that the city's been benefiting more and thus should spend more. The city's commitment, for a service it doesn't even run, is incredibly high. NYC residents pay half of half of all NYS income tax, but they aren't given municipal funding back. The state constantly hangs the city out to dry and underfunds them. 

 

 

You're falling for it. It's exactly what VG8 and Cuomo want you to do.

 

 

Turn this conversation to DiBlasio and forget about Cuomo's ultimate control over the MTA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The gym trip to Park Slope is a complete waste of time which he should stop doing. But using a car w/ police detail to get around is practical and secure for a major elected official. If you're playing the photo op game, I believe de Blasio took the train almost every day last week. The ferry investment is a pittance, and it's also essential to serve neighborhoods without good enough transit access. If demand increases, the subsidy will fall. That's how those work.

 

I don't know if you ignored my entire paragraph, but my point is that they BOTH benefit, which is why it's so incredibly stupid to say that the city's been benefiting more and thus should spend more. The city's commitment, for a service it doesn't even run, is incredibly high. NYC residents pay half of half of all NYS income tax, but they aren't given municipal funding back. The state constantly hangs the city out to dry and underfunds them. 

Yeah, but using helicopters sure as hell isn't practical just to go from one part of the City to another.  Just reinforces how much money this administrations wastes, and of course he blames the NYPD for that. lol As for the ferry service, I have no problem with it.  They're a necessity. The issue I have is the lack of planning in the first place that would've saved the City money.  Instead of building big enough ferries to accommodate the crowds, they opted for smaller ones, and now have had to go back and change the orders adding more unnecessary costs, not to mention the type of ferries they opted for, which have been shown not to be very reliable.  

 

I didn't ignore your paragraph. I simply clarified it and elaborated on it.  Finally, I've said that the State should contribute more, but the City should too despite meeting its legal obligations.  

 

You're falling for it. It's exactly what VG8 and Cuomo want you to do.

 

 

Turn this conversation to DiBlasio and forget about Cuomo's ultimate control over the MTA.

If de Blasio wants control over the (MTA), he sure as hell isn't building a good track record worthy of earning such a thing, so yes, he should be part of this conversation since he claims everything is Cuomo's fault, attempting to absolve himself of any culpability, despite the environment that the City has fostered and benefited from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.