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Train derails at Brighton Beach; Q, B train service delayed, MTA says


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A derailment at Brighton Beach snarled transit service during Friday morning’s commute, the MTA said.

 

The second set of wheels on a southbound Q train came off the rails around 8:55 a.m., MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz said. There were no injuries. Riders were removed from the car via a reach train, he said.

B trains are currently suspended from Bedford Park Boulevard to Brighton Beach in both directions, according to the MTA.

 

Commuters can expect delays on the B and Q line, which is running along the N line from Atlantic Avenue Barclays Center station to the Coney Island Sitwell Avenue station.

 

Signal issues at the 42nd Street-Bryant Park station also caused delays on the F and M line, the agency said.

 

Last month, a southbound A train derailed in Harlem at the West 125th Street station, leaving at least 39 people injured. The incident caused extensive delays and power outages at stations between 59th and 125th street.

 

http://www.amny.com/amp/transit/train-derails-at-brighton-beach-q-b-train-service-delayed-mta-says-1.13814046

 

One week without bs, is that too hard to ask?

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The media should reserve its subway-focus stories for incidents like…

NO TRAIN DELAYS FOR ONE DAY

 

In a rare display of reliability, trains yesterday ran without delays for an entire day. The MTA Chairman had this to say…

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Apparently some people aren't concerned about these severe delays AND derailments.  I mean seriously, if people think this is okay and should be the norm they need their heads checked.  I honestly feel like it's becoming part of the daily routine and that is scary.  This has been the entire week... My question is that $20 million already being put to use and when are they going to start dispatching the people to inspect trains before they leave the yard?

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Apparently some people aren't concerned about these severe delays AND derailments. I mean seriously, if people think this is okay and should be the norm they need their heads checked. I honestly feel like it's becoming part of the daily routine and that is scary. This has been the ENTIRE week...

Exactly how I feel. And then we probably have people that plan to leave NYC because of this bs, myself included. I could maybe understand a few accidents, but TWO derailments in a row? That's a sign for me if there was one.

 

Not to even mention the Penn Station bs that is also occuring with LIRR, NJT and Amtrak.

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Exactly how I feel. And then we probably have people that plan to leave NYC because of this bs, myself included. I could maybe understand a few accidents, but TWO derailments in a row? That's a sign for me if there was one.

 

Not to even mention the Penn Station bs that is also occuring with LIRR, NJT and Amtrak.

To me what I don't understand is how the system is deteriorating so rapidly.  Sure it's an old system and there has been deferred maintenance, but give me a break.  We're seeing people stranded on a daily basis, stuck on trains for over an hour and no real explanations as to why.  No communication.  I said it before.  You don't need millions to get on a loud speaker and let people know what's going on. I also don't think it should take 30 - 60 days to implement these common sense changes.  The article I posted the other day really bothered me because it's easy to say that people that are sick should do their best not to get on trains that way, but given the set of circumstances that is not an easy thing.  With the severe heat this week, one can fall ill to the conditions very easily, and we've seen severe waits every day. Wouldn't be surprised if there were more lawsuits either. 

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To me what I don't understand is how the system is deteriorating so rapidly.  Sure it's an old system and there has been deferred maintenance, but give me a break.  We're seeing people stranded on a daily basis, stuck on trains for over an hour and no real explanations as to why.  No communication.  I said it before.  You don't need millions to get on a loud speaker and let people know what's going on. I also don't think it should take 30 - 60 days to implement these common sense changes.  The article I posted the other day really bothered me because it's easy to say that people that are sick should do their best not to get on trains that way, but given the set of circumstances that is not an easy thing.  With the severe heat this week, one can fall ill to the conditions very easily, and we've seen severe waits every day. Wouldn't be surprised if there were more lawsuits either. 

What is there to not understand? Deferred maintenance today and deferred maintenance of the past have the same source.

 

Money. Money that no one wants to give. On any level.

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What is there to not understand? Deferred maintenance today and deferred maintenance of the past have the same source.

 

Money. Money that no one wants to give. On any level.

Everyone knows the system is bad that shape, but not this bad.  If it's really that bad, then the (MTA) should've been much more vocal about funding.  

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Can you guys chill out? The cause of the derailment wasn't the MTA's fault, the cause to the derailment was the rail buckling under pressure from the train and from the heat which caused it to expand.

 

I assume you're joking.  :)

 

(Of course, if the rails aren't designed for "pressure from trains" on a typical summer day, then we should shut down the entire system immediately until ALL track can be replaced. In fact, the track is certainly designed to not buckle under these exact conditions. When it does, it's defective, and that is absolutely the MTA's fault.)

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Can you guys chill out? The cause of the derailment wasn't the MTA's fault, the cause to the derailment was the rail buckling under pressure from the train and from the heat which caused it to expand.

But still its the 2nd derailment to occur in the last three weeks so of course it's a big deal.

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To me what I don't understand is how the system is deteriorating so rapidly. Sure it's an old system and there has been deferred maintenance, but give me a break. We're seeing people stranded on a daily basis, stuck on trains for over an hour and no real explanations as to why. No communication. I said it before. You don't need millions to get on a loud speaker and let people know what's going on. I also don't think it should take 30 - 60 days to implement these common sense changes. The article I posted the other day really bothered me because it's easy to say that people that are sick should do their best not to get on trains that way, but given the set of circumstances that is not an easy thing. With the severe heat this week, one can fall ill to the conditions very easily, and we've seen severe waits every day. Wouldn't be surprised if there were more lawsuits either.

I'd hate to be a conspiracist, but maybe all this is happening in order to make Andy look bad.

 

Or it's to make Andy come up with the Money.

 

Or it's to make deBlasio end (MTA) 's lease of NYCTA and return the system to local control - eliminating Andy's headache by giving it to Billy Dee...

 

Or maybe it's just because it's hot and humid and shit fails in those conditions.

 

Or... (MTA) just be f**king up with the "that'll do" and "not my job" attitudes.

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I'd hate to be a conspiracist, but maybe all this is happening in order to make Andy look bad.

 

Or it's to make Andy come up with the Money.

 

Or it's to make deBlasio end (MTA) 's lease of NYCTA and return the system to local control - eliminating Andy's headache by giving it to Billy Dee...

 

Or maybe it's just because it's hot and humid and shit fails in those conditions.

 

Or... (MTA) just be f**king up with the "that'll do" and "not my job" attitudes.

Well what is really bothersome to me is the amount of spending for capital projects and what we get in return.  I'll use the Sea Beach line as example.  That line was in horrible shape.  I don't remember off-hand what the budget is for the entire project, but it's not exactly pennies.  From what I've seen so far riding the (N) train down there a few times, I don't see anything that is worth that price tag.  The stations are about as generic as can be (no real fancy artwork or anything else to cost a mini-fortune like you see at Fulton Street), and it looks like they have tried to do as little invasive work as possible to get the closed stations re-opened quickly.  

 

Aside from the obvious replacement of the crumbling walls and peeling paint, some new lighting, platforms and paint should not cost what it's costing, and on top of that, they seem to use really cheap materials.  Look at some of the stations on the (Q) line like Newkirk Plaza.  That station was rehabbed and looks like a wreck already. I can't believe how quickly the work deteriorated.  People here like to talk about deferred maintenance, but it goes beyond that.  It's the shoddy work and materials along with the deferred maintenance that seems to be exacerbating the problem.  I think the (MTA) needs to re-assess the materials they use and find things that hold up better. I see subway stations in other places that are very generic, and somehow the infrastructure is better.  The system may be 24/7, but still.  That doesn't excuse the shoddy work.  I was down in the Times Square station the other day. Had to dodge water leaking all over the platforms.  

 

What a good number of New Yorkers seem to favor is shutting down parts of the system longer to allow for the work to be done without interruption, otherwise you end up with these half-@ssed jobs.

 

Your heat comment is something else I forgot to comment on.  There seems to be a colossal collapse of the system every time we have a mini heat wave here or a rain storm.  There was a significant amount of monies pumped into the system to address these sorts of issues (supposedly) and again, I don't see any difference.  They did a story on the new (Q) train stations on the UES about how they were supposed to be equipped with AC and yet they all opened without any.  Now the (MTA) claims they focused on getting the stations opened and prioritized that over the AC, so that will be put on the back burner while folks continue to swelter below on the steamy platforms until the HVAC systems pass inspections and receive the green light to be turned on.

 

I also have to wonder what upgrades ConEd has done.  They keep coming up every time there's a heat wave because they can't seem to provide power to the (MTA) (or so the (MTA) says) and so every year we have this blame game between the two of them.  All I know is too much money is coming in and not enough to show for it.

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Well what is really bothersome to me is the amount of spending for capital projects and what we get in return. I'll use the Sea Beach line as example. That line was in horrible shape. I don't remember off-hand what the budget is for the entire project, but it's not exactly pennies. From what I've seen so far riding the (N) train down there a few times, I don't see anything that is worth that price tag. The stations are about as generic as can be (no real fancy artwork or anything else to cost a mini-fortune like you see at Fulton Street), and it looks like they have tried to do as little invasive work as possible to get the closed stations re-opened quickly.

 

Aside from the obvious replacement of the crumbling walls and peeling paint, some new lighting, platforms and paint should not cost what it's costing, and top of that, they seem to use really cheap materials. Look at some of the stations on the (Q) line like Newkirk Plaza. That station was rehabbed and looks like a wreck already. I can't believe how quickly the work deteriorated. People here like to talk about deferred maintenance, but it goes beyond that. It's the shoddy work and materials along with the deferred maintenance that seems to be exacerbating the problem. I think the (MTA) needs to re-assess the materials they use and find things that hold up better. I see subway stations in other places that are very generic, and somehow the infrastructure is better. The system may be 24/7, but still. That doesn't excuse the shoddy work. I was down in the Times Square station the other day. Had to dodge water leaking all over the platforms.

 

What a good number of New Yorkers seem to favor is shutting down parts of the system longer to allow for the work to be done without interruption, otherwise you end up with these half-@ssed jobs.

 

Your heat comment is something else I forgot to comment on. There seems to be a colossal collapse of the system every time we have a mini heat wave here or a rain storm. There was a significant amount of monies pumped into the system to address these sorts of issues (supposedly) and again, I don't see any difference. They did a story on the new (Q) train stations on the UES about how they were supposed to be equipped with AC and yet they all opened without any. Now the (MTA) claims they focused on getting the stations opened and prioritized that over the AC, so that will be put on the back burner will folks continue to swelter below on the steamy platforms under the HVAC passes inspections and receives the green light to be turned on.

 

I also have to wonder what upgrades ConEd has done. They keep coming up every time there's a heat wave because they can't seem to provide power to the (MTA) (or so the (MTA) says) and so every year we have this blame game between the two of them. All I know is too much money is coming in and not enough to show for it.

What was it - $1.5 billion on (7) to Javits Center and the station leaked water and is missing a station?

 

Half a billion for new South Ferry and no one thought to build it to be floodproof in case a 1-in-500 year storm came through the Narrows? And now another half billion to rebuild it, so $1 billion to build a station.

 

Not as bad as Cabaltrava's $4 billion monument to extravagance off the West Side Highway, but still...

 

Seems to me that the problem is procurement is so focused on lowest bidder to catch up instead of creating a new grand vision and focusing on quality that we'll see things like SAS shut down for extended maintenance in the next 10 years.

 

That's gotta change.

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What was it - $1.5 billion on (7) to Javits Center and the station leaked water and is missing a station?

 

Half a billion for new South Ferry and no one thought to build it to be floodproof in case a 1-in-500 year storm came through the Narrows? And now another half billion to rebuild it, so $1 billion to build a station.

 

Not as bad as Cabaltrava's $4 billion monument to extravagance off the West Side Highway, but still...

 

Seems to me that the problem is procurement is so focused on lowest bidder to catch up instead of creating a new grand vision and focusing on quality that we'll see things like SAS shut down for extended maintenance in the next 10 years.

 

That's gotta change.

Yeah and yet we keep hearing the (MTA) needs MORE funding MORE. lol  Well if you're spending a billion dollars per station, then yes, you need A LOT more funding.  The other question, is what does that money go to when they rehab these stations? I'm guessing tracks are separate from that, but I would think everything would be done for each station.  Generally what I see is better lighting, some newer looking platforms before they become filthy from not being power washed and maybe a few new tiles.  The often times recycle parts of the tiles so where does the money go?  

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Yeah and yet we keep hearing the (MTA) needs MORE funding MORE. lol Well if you're spending a billion dollars per station, then yes, you need A LOT more funding. The other question, is what does that money go to when they rehab these stations? I'm guessing tracks are separate from that, but I would think everything would be done for each station. Generally what I see is better lighting, some newer looking platforms before they become filthy from not being power washed and maybe a few new tiles. The often times recycle parts of the tiles so where does the money go?

Dunno, but there's this from the TWU...

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Dunno, but there's this from the TWU...

There are so many things wrong with that article that I agree with, especially the one about Lhota asking staff to stop blaming passengers. Sometimes it is the passengers' fault but not all of the time.  I had an incident last night that was absurd that is a perfect example of this.  Waited for a bus at a bus stop late last night.  Huge delivery truck pulls in blocking the entire bus stop.  I step into the street when I saw the bus coming about two blocks away and then wait safely but in view of the driver as he waits at the light.  It was late so very few people were out.  He proceeds to fly down the street and blow right past me. Had to hail him down and only then did he stop the bus half way down the block.  I get on and he apologizes, but I was already irritated because he was quite late (almost 20 minutes) and there was nothing excusing it, so I replied back that "he needed to look" (in other words look to see if people actually needed to get on before blowing by the stop, which he didn't do).  I guess I shouldn't have said that because then he replied that it would be a long ride home.  So in essence, that's an example of where the passenger gets blamed for pointing out the truth.  

 

As far as Samuelson goes, he's always going to argue that we need more of this and more of that. His job is to go out and speak for the people he represents.  I don't disagree what what he says though because we need to have more of these things. The problem is who is actually making sure there is accountability? It's easy to say that we need more inspections of the tracks, but how do we know that the work is being done? I don't think there is enough supervision and follow-up on certain things, just like we see with the on-going errors when subway changes are put up on the website.  Have someone there that's overseeing what's going out to ensure that it's accurate and being done correctly. I think that's something that isn't really clear and definitely needs to change.  

 

On the bus end of things I agree with Samuelson, but we also need more consistency there as well, which is something that has really gone to hell on so many levels.  You can't attract riders to a system that they don't trust.  That's something that is a big underlying problem with these ongoing delays and derailments that isn't being discussed on the subway side too. Finally, I would say to Samuelson, not everyone is as dumb as you may think.  I don't like the idea of him saying that Transit Advocates are somehow so out of tune with what's going on.  A lot of these people use the system every day and have a good idea of what's going on. It's not really that complicated buddy. 

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Can you guys chill out? The cause of the derailment wasn't the MTA's fault, the cause to the derailment was the rail buckling under pressure from the train and from the heat which caused it to expand.

I felt that was what caused it. Which means CWR may be more of a problem than realized. I mean think about it. It's for that exact reason bridges and elevated highways have expansion joints. When the metal expands, there is a little room allowed for it so the bridge/highway doesn't destroy itself.

I assume you're joking.  :)

 

(Of course, if the rails aren't designed for "pressure from trains" on a typical summer day, then we should shut down the entire system immediately until ALL track can be replaced. In fact, the track is certainly designed to not buckle under these exact conditions. When it does, it's defective, and that is absolutely the MTA's fault.)

Metal and heat do not mix. CWR does not leave space for the metal to expand in heat. It was only a matter of time.

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I felt that was what caused it. Which means CWR may be more of a problem than realized. I mean think about it. It's for that exact reason bridges and elevated highways have expansion joints. When the metal expands, there is a little room allowed for it so the bridge/highway doesn't destroy itself.

 

Metal and heat do not mix. CWR does not leave space for the metal to expand in heat. It was only a matter of time.

The phenomenon is called a track buckle, the smaller scale of this being a heat kink, when the force of rail expansion is greater than the force keeping the rail in place. There are ways of reducing the risk of this, such as controlling the temperature of the rail when it is installed so that there's not too much expansion on hot days, or ensuring the rail and ties are properly anchored so they withstand the thermal forces in the rail. CWR is used just about everywhere, with most of the freights RR's using larger rail.

 

Has there been any update on the derailment? Is the above the preliminary thoughts on the cause?

 

I'd like to see what Lhota's top to bottom audit turns up. Like I said in another thread, these practices need to be audited to make sure that inspections and maintenance are being done properly. It can also reveal if the workforce is being properly utilized, under utilized, or overtaxed. Expecting more with less is becoming a common practice in the public sector.

 

As far as heat and rain causing issues and delays, we've had the same problems down here. We have at least two arcing third rail insulators a day; 4-5 when it rains, and a power related shutdown twice a week.

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

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A derailment at Brighton Beach snarled transit service during Friday morning’s commute, the MTA said.

 

The second set of wheels on a southbound Q train came off the rails around 8:55 a.m., MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz said. There were no injuries. Riders were removed from the car via a reach train, he said.

B trains are currently suspended from Bedford Park Boulevard to Brighton Beach in both directions, according to the MTA.

 

Commuters can expect delays on the B and Q line, which is running along the N line from Atlantic Avenue Barclays Center station to the Coney Island Sitwell Avenue station.

 

Signal issues at the 42nd Street-Bryant Park station also caused delays on the F and M line, the agency said.

 

Last month, a southbound A train derailed in Harlem at the West 125th Street station, leaving at least 39 people injured. The incident caused extensive delays and power outages at stations between 59th and 125th street.

 

http://www.amny.com/amp/transit/train-derails-at-brighton-beach-q-b-train-service-delayed-mta-says-1.13814046

 

One week without bs, is that too hard to ask?

apparently

 

Sent from my HP ENVY m6 Notebook PC using Tapatalk

Can you guys chill out? The cause of the derailment wasn't the MTA's fault, the cause to the derailment was the rail buckling under pressure from the train and from the heat which caused it to expand.

which in a way is STILL their fault for not insulating vulnerable infrastructure for extreme conditions.

 

If a substation caught fire, would you blame that on the heat too? :-/

 

Sent from my HP ENVY m6 Notebook PC using Tapatalk

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The problem here is that our leaders and the media have adopted a policy of assessing blame before all the facts are in. While in some cases, the cause is quite obvious, there are many such as this one  where the cause cannot be determined right away until there is a thorough investigation of what happened and then it becomes clear as to the cause.

We have a two fold problem in that by placing blame right away, it provides media coverage for for politicians and their surrogates which they crave and it it gives the 24/7 media something to keep pushing on their "programs".While it may have not happened in this case, it seems to happen too often in others. The second part is that by speculating about the cause, it gives cover to those that do not want to resolve the problem  but instead blame others to cover their own refusal  to come up with a solution. Another factor here is that many of these so called "journalists" are not really "journalists" but are just readers and (heaven forbid), they checked the internet, read forums such as this one or visited a library to check on the accuracy of the item and its source.How many times did we read something either in the print media or on the internet that was proven to be wrong? It is a lot more than we know. 

Heat impacting upon the rails and possibly causing accidents such as this one is quite well known and anyone who followed Amtrak or rode Amtrak over the years, knows about it as it is a common problem in the south and the west. It does not happen up here that often and when it does it is usually on the commuter railroads. It is a problem that happens in weather like we have during the summer  and are just like the wire problems. that afflict the commuter railroads but  also affects the rails. It is just that it does not happen that often enough where it  mentioned on a regular basis so that it gives credence to the blame everything on someone crowd who are too lazy to do some research before writing or saying something about what happened such as in this case.

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which in a way is STILL their fault for not insulating vulnerable infrastructure for extreme conditions.

 

If a substation caught fire, would you blame that on the heat too? :-/

 

 

rails warping in heat is not really something you can insulate against since is a property of the metal itself; every railroad experiences it from time to time.

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Everyone knows the system is bad that shape, but not this bad.  If it's really that bad, then the (MTA) should've been much more vocal about funding.  

 

The main problem with this is that the Chairman, who should really be the advocate for the system, serves at the whim of the Governor. If a Governor wants to tighten the belt too far in terms of fiscal responsibility for a future presidential run (see: Cuomo Sr., Pataki, Cuomo), any outspoken MTA head can just be replaced and replaced with a more loyal person. No MTA Chairman has served a full term since Kalikow left in 2007.

 

After all, Prendergast couldn't say no to the Governor unilaterally declaring subway service closed for the snowstorms, he couldn't say no when Cuomo gave the LIRR unions everything they wanted before a LIRR strike, etc.

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Can you guys chill out? The cause of the derailment wasn't the MTA's fault, the cause to the derailment was the rail buckling under pressure from the train and from the heat which caused it to expand.

You would hope that the MTA's equipment would be rated to run properly up to ~110-120 degrees, not 90 degrees. The temperature yesterday wasn't comfortable but it shouldn't have been anywhere near the limit for subway equipment. 

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