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Why Track 4 on the (S) is the Worst


R42N

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Let me walk you though my morning Shuttle ride from GCT to Times Sq.

 

I was sprinting down the stairs with a train on Track 3 and the countdown clocks reporting 1 minute left. Sure enough as I got to the first door there was no space, as was the case in the next two doors, so I relented and let the doors close. Then, there was an annoucement that a "train was arrving on T4", Even though the train just arrived and was ready to open it's doors. So about 25 other people (and I) sprinted back and around to T4, and started the 50 foot sprint, up to the T4 train (Track 4 stops 50+ feet shy of the bumper for whatever reason).

 

As I was 30 feet away, and only 5-10 people safely on-board that came stright from the staricase, the auto PA annouced "Stand Clear on T4", as T1 was pulling in soon, and the T/O started to close the doors. Luckily an Asian gentleman observing the situation noticed the situation, and held the door for me and some other strangelers that got snubbed off T3. When I got up to the door, a few of us in-turn held the doors for the last few (mainly seniors/slow runners), that couldn't find space on T3, despite the idiotic T/O's yelling. Another minute of holding later (great bonding between random pax, though) we left with 30% of the seats in the last car taken, and one or two folks in the first and second car (which is ridculious considering that T3 left with no space in it's back two cars).

 

When we got to Times Sq, the same exact thing happened, the PA announced the closing of the doors, and people running around the loop to get to T4 made a chain reaction of holding for family/friends, which again makes sense.

 

The worst part of the whole experience was seeing the T1 train arrive (packed) moments after us, and seeing it's passengers make it to the N/R quicker, since it de-trains closer to the connections.

 

At this point, I'm no longer going to bother with tje T4 stupidity, and just wait for T1 or T3.

 

First a few suggestions and comments:

 

-One easy remidity would be to fix whatever the problem is on the T4 Platform that makes it stop 50 feet shy. If we had not held the doors for those seniors, they would have missed T3 due to overcrowding, T4 due to how far away it is and the stupid scheduling, and then T1 as they'd have to walk back and around, all in 30 seconds, too much for 70+ year olds.

 

-The next suggestion would be to board T3 on the T3/T4 island platform, that way if one misses T3, he or she mearly has to walk across the platfrom, not run around and up. And, consdering T1 stops close to the stairs, missing T3 would mean a closer walk to T1.

 

- Despite the automated PA, there should be some on-site staff directing people to the tracks, and the T/O should use common sense. I know he wants to get things going, but what's the point of operating back and forth if NO ONE is riding. Had no one held the doors, the train would have had 4 passengers to TSQ, and 10 passengers back to GCT, while T1/T3 have 200+ each.

 

-When T4 was closed earlier this Spring, at least in my opinnion, it was slightly more crowded, ut there was more orginization and less stress, which worked better. So maybe T4 shouldn't operate at all.

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Let me walk you though my morning Shuttle ride from GCT to Times Sq.

 

I was sprinting down the stairs with a train on Track 3 and the countdown clocks reporting 1 minute left. Sure enough as I got to the first door there was no space, as was the case in the next two doors, so I relented and let the doors close. Then, there was an annoucement that a "train was arrving on T4", Even though the train just arrived and was ready to open it's doors. So about 25 other people (and I) sprinted back and around to T4, and started the 50 foot sprint, up to the T4 train (Track 4 stops 50+ feet shy of the bumper for whatever reason).

 

As I was 30 feet away, and only 5-10 people safely on-board that came stright from the staricase, the auto PA annouced "Stand Clear on T4", as T1 was pulling in soon, and the T/O started to close the doors. Luckily an Asian gentleman observing the situation noticed the situation, and held the door for me and some other strangelers that got snubbed off T3. When I got up to the door, a few of us in-turn held the doors for the last few (mainly seniors/slow runners), that couldn't find space on T3, despite the idiotic T/O's yelling. Another minute of holding later (great bonding between random pax, though) we left with 30% of the seats in the last car taken, and one or two folks in the first and second car (which is ridculious considering that T3 left with no space in it's back two cars).

 

When we got to Times Sq, the same exact thing happened, the PA announced the closing of the doors, and people running around the loop to get to T4 made a chain reaction of holding for family/friends, which again makes sense.

 

The worst part of the whole experience was seeing the T1 train arrive (packed) moments after us, and seeing it's passengers make it to the N/R quicker, since it de-trains closer to the connections.

 

At this point, I'm no longer going to bother with tje T4 stupidity, and just wait for T1 or T3.

 

First a few suggestions and comments:

 

-One easy remidity would be to fix whatever the problem is on the T4 Platform that makes it stop 50 feet shy. If we had not held the doors for those seniors, they would have missed T3 due to overcrowding, T4 due to how far away it is and the stupid scheduling, and then T1 as they'd have to walk back and around, all in 30 seconds, too much for 70+ year olds.

 

-The next suggestion would be to board T3 on the T3/T4 island platform, that way if one misses T3, he or she mearly has to walk across the platfrom, not run around and up. And, consdering T1 stops close to the stairs, missing T3 would mean a closer walk to T1.

 

- Despite the automated PA, there should be some on-site staff directing people to the tracks, and the T/O should use common sense. I know he wants to get things going, but what's the point of operating back and forth if NO ONE is riding. Had no one held the doors, the train would have had 4 passengers to TSQ, and 10 passengers back to GCT, while T1/T3 have 200+ each.

 

-When T4 was closed earlier this Spring, at least in my opinnion, it was slightly more crowded, ut there was more orginization and less stress, which worked better. So maybe T4 shouldn't operate at all.

Huh, no wonder why I take the (7)

 

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Let me walk you though my morning Shuttle ride from GCT to Times Sq.

 

I was sprinting down the stairs with a train on Track 3 and the countdown clocks reporting 1 minute left. Sure enough as I got to the first door there was no space, as was the case in the next two doors, so I relented and let the doors close. Then, there was an annoucement that a "train was arrving on T4", Even though the train just arrived and was ready to open it's doors. So about 25 other people (and I) sprinted back and around to T4, and started the 50 foot sprint, up to the T4 train (Track 4 stops 50+ feet shy of the bumper for whatever reason).

 

As I was 30 feet away, and only 5-10 people safely on-board that came stright from the staricase, the auto PA annouced "Stand Clear on T4", as T1 was pulling in soon, and the T/O started to close the doors. Luckily an Asian gentleman observing the situation noticed the situation, and held the door for me and some other strangelers that got snubbed off T3. When I got up to the door, a few of us in-turn held the doors for the last few (mainly seniors/slow runners), that couldn't find space on T3, despite the idiotic T/O's yelling. Another minute of holding later (great bonding between random pax, though) we left with 30% of the seats in the last car taken, and one or two folks in the first and second car (which is ridculious considering that T3 left with no space in it's back two cars).

 

When we got to Times Sq, the same exact thing happened, the PA announced the closing of the doors, and people running around the loop to get to T4 made a chain reaction of holding for family/friends, which again makes sense.

 

The worst part of the whole experience was seeing the T1 train arrive (packed) moments after us, and seeing it's passengers make it to the N/R quicker, since it de-trains closer to the connections.

 

At this point, I'm no longer going to bother with tje T4 stupidity, and just wait for T1 or T3.

 

First a few suggestions and comments:

 

-One easy remidity would be to fix whatever the problem is on the T4 Platform that makes it stop 50 feet shy. If we had not held the doors for those seniors, they would have missed T3 due to overcrowding, T4 due to how far away it is and the stupid scheduling, and then T1 as they'd have to walk back and around, all in 30 seconds, too much for 70+ year olds.

 

-The next suggestion would be to board T3 on the T3/T4 island platform, that way if one misses T3, he or she mearly has to walk across the platfrom, not run around and up. And, consdering T1 stops close to the stairs, missing T3 would mean a closer walk to T1.

 

- Despite the automated PA, there should be some on-site staff directing people to the tracks, and the T/O should use common sense. I know he wants to get things going, but what's the point of operating back and forth if NO ONE is riding. Had no one held the doors, the train would have had 4 passengers to TSQ, and 10 passengers back to GCT, while T1/T3 have 200+ each.

 

-When T4 was closed earlier this Spring, at least in my opinnion, it was slightly more crowded, ut there was more orginization and less stress, which worked better. So maybe T4 shouldn't operate at all.

That's why there's such a terrible loading balance on the trains.  Everyone waits at T1 because it's the closest to the other trains and the easiest to reach. The problem is you can't wait on that platform too far away because then you won't be able to get the trains on the other tracks, so I always wait until I know exactly which track the train is arriving on before I go anywhere. I keep a good distance to all of the tracks, this way I don't have to run anywhere.  I agree though.  The layout is just ridiculous. They're only freakin' shuttle trains going back and forth from Times Square to Grand Central.  They should be able to provide information as to which train will be on which track in advance.

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That's why there's such a terrible loading balance on the trains.  Everyone waits at T1 because it's the closest to the other trains and the easiest to reach. The problem is you can't wait on that platform too far away because then you won't be able to get the trains on the other tracks, so I always wait until I know exactly which track the train is arriving on before I go anywhere. I keep a good distance to all of the tracks, this way I don't have to run anywhere.  I agree though.  The layout is just ridiculous. They're only freakin' shuttle trains going back and forth from Times Square to Grand Central.  They should be able to provide information as to which train will be on which track in advance.

 

 

Exactly, and that’s a good technique. 

 

I think some staff members (like platform controllers) on hand would make the system work better. They would stand there, know the sequence of trains, and start suggesting T4 early. 

 

So many passengers try to run for Track 4 at TSQ with 0 minutes on the clock, which requires running a mile. Not to mention that one is effectively screwed once they miss it, as they then have to run back to T1 in hopes of catching that. And then one has to walk a long way on the GCT platform, at which point the train from T1/3 has already arrived. 

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Exactly, and that’s a good technique. 

 

I think some staff members (like platform controllers) on hand would make the system work better. They would stand there, know the sequence of trains, and start suggesting T4 early. 

 

So many passengers try to run for Track 4 at TSQ with 0 minutes on the clock, which requires running a mile. Not to mention that one is effectively screwed once they miss it, as they then have to run back to T1 in hopes of catching that. And then one has to walk a long way on the GCT platform, at which point the train from T1/3 has already arrived. 

I actually don't take the shuttle often ever at Grand Central, even if I'm in the area, because the first cars are always packed to the rafters and there is no escaping the crowds until several trains have come.  At Times Square, you can at least avoid some of the crowds with that God awful set up, only because people are too dense and too lazy to figure out how things are configured there, but really, it's like running a track race with the back and forth. As much as I hate that long walk, I usually just do it or take the M42 where possible. The (7) is so deep underground that it's a PITA too, even more than the (S) IMO.

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I actually don't take the shuttle often ever at Grand Central, even if I'm in the area, because the first cars are always packed to the rafters and there is no escaping the crowds until several trains have come.  At Times Square, you can at least avoid some of the crowds with that God awful set up, only because people are too dense and too lazy to figure out how things are configured there, but really, it's like running a track race with the back and forth. As much as I hate that long walk, I usually just do it or take the M42 where possible. The (7) is so deep underground that it's a PITA too, even more than the (S) IMO.

The (7) at Times Square is easily accessible from the (1)(2)(3) , and it is connected directly to the (4)(5)(6) at Grand Central. In addition, the (7) is great for getting to 3rd Avenue; it saves a lot of walking time from Grand Central Terminal.

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The (7) at Times Square is easily accessible from the (1)(2)(3) , and it is connected directly to the (4)(5)(6) at Grand Central. In addition, the (7) is great for getting to 3rd Avenue; it saves a lot of walking time from Grand Central Terminal.

Yes, but if you aren't coming from one of those transfers, it isn't all that easy.  The (S) is more accessible from that point of view.  Additionally, if the escalators are broken, no one wants to climb all of those stairs from the (7).  Hell I recently used the (7) from Times Square to Grand Central, and I was so thankful that the escalator was on as worn out as it was, because it was really hot that day and I would have been pissed having to take all of those stairs just to reach the mezzanine level.

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The (7) at Times Square is easily accessible from the (1)(2)(3) , and it is connected directly to the (4)(5)(6) at Grand Central. In addition, the (7) is great for getting to 3rd Avenue; it saves a lot of walking time from Grand Central Terminal.

 

 

From Metro-North/Terminal however (which is the majority of the (S) customers) it’s not convenient at all. My morning train arrives on Track 42, which means I’m already near the (S). For the (7), I have to walk through the concourse, which is a mess with all the picture taking tourists at peak periods, go down a staircase to a mobbed fare control, and take two sets of escalators. Then, I have to stop at 5th Avenue, and go up a long slow escalator. 

 

The (S) is within a 60 second walk to the (N)(R) and the (1)(2)(3) with only one minimal staircase, and the fare control at GCT is considerably more humane. 

 

Frankly, unless if I’m going to the (A)(C)(E), which is extremely rare, I’ll only consider the (S).

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From Metro-North/Terminal however (which is the majority of the (S) customers) it’s not convenient at all. My morning train arrives on Track 42, which means I’m already near the (S). For the (7), I have to walk through the concourse, which is a mess with all the picture taking tourists at peak periods, go down a staircase to a mobbed fare control, and take two sets of escalators. Then, I have to stop at 5th Avenue, and go up a long slow escalator. 

 

The (S) is within a 60 second walk to the (N)(R) and the (1)(2)(3) with only one minimal staircase, and the fare control at GCT is considerably more humane. 

 

Frankly, unless if I’m going to the (A)(C)(E), which is extremely rare, I’ll only consider the (S).

I use track 42 a lot as well for the Hudson Line... Totally agree... From Track 42, you can also avoid a lot of those annoying tourists and the crowds in the heart of the station.

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-When T4 was closed earlier this Spring, at least in my opinnion, it was slightly more crowded, ut there was more orginization and less stress, which worked better. So maybe T4 shouldn't operate at all.

Closing Track 4 on the GCT side seemed excessive and a sacrifice to standing room. It's the Times Square platform that was mutilated.

 

IMHO, they could've allowed people to board the train on Track 3 from both sides. But with doors partly open on the side facing track 4 to alleviate congestion.

Huh, no wonder why I take the (7)

 

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the (7) isn't exactly the easy way out. If everyone used that logic, the GCT's narrow platform would have people flowing past the walls and 11th car space. 

And it may be accessible, but the last time I needed an elevator a whole family was stuck inside while FDNY used jaws of life to pry open the doors.

My laughter might have been cruel. 

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Closing Track 4 on the GCT side seemed excessive and a sacrifice to standing room. It's the Times Square platform that was mutilated.

 

IMHO, they could've allowed people to board the train on Track 3 from both sides. But with doors partly open on the side facing track 4 to alleviate congestion.

 

 

Honestly, as someone who unfortunately has to take the Shuttle often from GCT, here’s the difference I noticed with the Spring/Summer T1 & T3 only set-up:

 

Trains every 3 minutes rather than every 2 minutes, so the train is obviously crowded, but the extra time gives passengers time to walk to the end of the Shuttle, which spreads out the traffic. Additionally, with only two tracks in operation, passengers seemed to know what track the next train was arriving on, since there wasn’t that third wild card. The main issue is less versatility in IRROPS. If the T1 Train was having a slight issue, there would be major over-crowding for T3. 

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Honestly, as someone who unfortunately has to take the Shuttle often from GCT, here’s the difference I noticed with the Spring/Summer T1 & T3 only set-up:

 

Trains every 3 minutes rather than every 2 minutes, so the train is obviously crowded, but the extra time gives passengers time to walk to the end of the Shuttle, which spreads out the traffic. Additionally, with only two tracks in operation, passengers seemed to know what track the next train was arriving on, since there wasn’t that third wild card. The main issue is less versatility in IRROPS. If the T1 Train was having a slight issue, there would be major over-crowding for T3. 

In addition, the conductors got too lenient with door holders, creating more of a snarl. If they choose to remove seats, they should add more handlebars for the jittery and withered and mounts for wheelchairs and static strollers.

 

The crosstown is truly going to be blessed when it gets ten cars. I often use the (G) to get around that snarl. It does take me longer, and I set out earlier, although leaving early does not guarantee a flaw-free commute, or even one with less flaws than usual.

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In addition, the conductors got too lenient with door holders, creating more of a snarl. If they choose to remove seats, they should add more handlebars for the jittery and withered and mounts for wheelchairs and static strollers.

 

The crosstown is truly going to be blessed when it gets ten cars. I often use the (G) to get around that snarl. It does take me longer, and I set out earlier, although leaving early does not guarantee a flaw-free commute, or even one with less flaws than usual.

I sometimes take the (G) as well from Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Court Square (if only it ran to Forest Hills, then I'll have a one seat ride home) sadly that's is currently no reality

 

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In addition, the conductors got too lenient with door holders, creating more of a snarl. If they choose to remove seats, they should add more handlebars for the jittery and withered and mounts for wheelchairs and static strollers.

 

The crosstown is truly going to be blessed when it gets ten cars. I often use the (G) to get around that snarl. It does take me longer, and I set out earlier, although leaving early does not guarantee a flaw-free commute, or even one with less flaws than usual.

You take the (G) train home to avoid the 42 street Shuttle? How?

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You take the (G) train home to avoid the 42 street Shuttle? How?

Well... The (G)is a Crosstown service after all.  :lol:

 

All joking aside tho, doesn't the (S) run Track 1, Track 3, Track 4 out of Grand Central in that precise order? Or has the Cuomo-era (MTA) also done a disservice to the shuttle and the trains run out of sequence?

 

The times I have needed it during the rush it would always run like clockwork. I'd typically go to the next track over during rush hour (if the track 1 train was about to leave I'd go to track 3, or I'd go to track 4 is the train on track 3 is about to leave) and I'd still be out of Grand Central within 3 minutes.

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Well... The (G)is a Crosstown service after all.  :lol:

 

All joking aside tho, doesn't the (S) run Track 1, Track 3, Track 4 out of Grand Central in that precise order? Or has the Cuomo-era (MTA) also done a disservice to the shuttle and the trains run out of sequence?

 

The times I have needed it during the rush it would always run like clockwork. I'd typically go to the next track over during rush hour (if the track 1 train was about to leave I'd go to track 3, or I'd go to track 4 is the train on track 3 is about to leave) and I'd still be out of Grand Central within 3 minutes.

 

There's a sequence to the shuttle departures?! I've never seen them leave in order lol

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There kind of is if you use the (S) regularly. Moreso true at Grand Central.

Yeah, it's always subject to change, but generally they start with 3,4,1. Before the automated PA, late in the rush, 4 and 1 leave almost simotanious, which further decreases T4's usage.

 

Today,, the Shuttle tries to stay by it's schedule as best as it can, so if it annouces "Stand Clear of the Closing Doors on Track 1 Please" The T/O will start to close even if few passengers have boarded.

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There's a sequence to the shuttle departures?! I've never seen them leave in order lol

I haven't used the shuttle during rush hour for a few years now (I think since like 2012, right after the current ridership boom started), so at least when I last used the shuttle at that hour there was a sequence to the shuttle departures.

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I dread walking around that loop on the shuttle from track 4, just as much as I dread walking around the loop after getting off track 2 off the (2) at Flatbush to catch the B11... Total PITA's....

 

With that said.... Outside of 'fanning purposes, I'm not going out of my way to catch the shuttle... I'll put up with the extra stop on the (7) to get between TSQ & GCT..... As odd as it might sound, the 7 IMO is more reliable than the shuttle - much like everyone else, I wanna get moving too..... And AFAIC, the shuttle is too tucked away from the rest of the subway lines (especially at GCT - like I'm walking in a cavern & are met with this sound effect upon reaching it!)

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Yeah, the (7) really is a better option unless your destination is Park/Madison Avenues or 43rd Street... There are more cars, the platform is nicer, it's less of a walk, usually less crowded, less panhandlers....

 

The only problem with the (7) is if you're heading in the peak direction (to Times Square in the morning rush, to Grand Central in the afternoon).  I've done the walk along 42 Street and it's not as long as the map makes it out to be.  That, and the tourists around the area can make it seem longer too.

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The only problem with the (7) is if you're heading in the peak direction (to Times Square in the morning rush, to Grand Central in the afternoon).  I've done the walk along 42 Street and it's not as long as the map makes it out to be.  That, and the tourists around the area can make it seem longer too.

(7) is better if you're going to 3rd or 8th Avenue in particular. 

 

Funny thing is you can actually walk from 3rd Avenue all the way to Madison Avenue within the fare zone at 42nd-Grand Central. 

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You take the (G) train home to avoid the 42 street Shuttle? How?

I make use of the (E) or (7), but it does require some concessions. And with the (L) being slated for shutdown, the (G) is gonna be in demand for similar reasons.

But at least ten cars will be the norm by then.

 

The shutdown would be a good time to decommission R32 cars, whose mileage is dropping hotter than a '93 Honda Civic with 300K on the odometer.

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All joking aside tho, doesn't the (S) run Track 1, Track 3, Track 4 out of Grand Central in that precise order? Or has the Cuomo-era (MTA) also done a disservice to the shuttle and the trains run out of sequence?

 

 

Track 4 is closed for construction until after Labor Day on both sides. The chipping-away Times Square platform could kill someone, but they could allow people to board Track 3 at the GCT end from either side.

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