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Tiles that resemble the Confederate flag are being removed from a Times Square subway station


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Following the deadly white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, last weekend, local officials have begun to push for the removal of Confederate monuments and memorials across New York City. On Wednesday, Governor Andrew Cuomo called for a pair of streets on Fort Hamilton Army Base that are named after Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson to be renamed. Later that day, Mayor Bill de Blasio echoed Cuomo's call for the streets to be renamed and announced that his office will conduct a 90-day review of "all symbols of hate on city property."

 

But it won't take three months for officials to remove at least one piece of controversial artwork in the city. The Post reports that the MTA will rework a series of tiles at the 40th Street entrance to the Times Square subway station that resemble the Confederate flag. An MTA spokesperson said that the tiles were not originally intended to represent the flag but rather the area's moniker as the Crossroads of the World, and that they will be modified regardless to "avoid absolutely any confusion." 

 

The mosaics were first installed at the station way back in 1917 to honor the Times' publisher Adolph S. Ochs, who was from Tennessee. The Post has repeatedly asserted that Ochs' “strong ties to the Confederacy” indicated that the tiles had racist undertones, but that claim has largely been debunked. 

 

In any case, the tiles are on their way out. Now we just need to get rid of those dirtbags in the East Village who won't stop hanging Confederate flags in their windows. 

 


 

This is so stupid... The tiles have been there for a hundred years without causing any issues. Leave the damn things alone!

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This is so stupid... The tiles have been there for a hundred years without causing any issues. Leave the damn things alone!

 

Not only that but they stand for something completely different. It's a waste of money and time.  Oh the tiles look like the confederate flag. Who would even be thinking about that except for people looking for something to complain about because everything is racist these days. Give me a break.  I'm so sick of people and their BS "outrage".   <_<  These tiles represent Times Square and it being the crossroads of the world.  I see nothing wrong with that and the message being sent, as it's a positive thing.

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Not only that but they stand for something completely different. It's a waste of money and time.  Oh the tiles look like the confederate flag. Who would even be thinking about that except for people looking for something to complain about because everything is racist these days. Give me a break.  I'm so sick of people and their BS "outrage".   <_<  These tiles represent Times Square and it being the crossroads of the world.  I see nothing wrong with that and the message being sent, as it's a positive thing.

The problem is, they are being proactive because likely of fear someone might use it as an excuse to go after people, citing it to "send a message" that it be changed.  

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The problem is, they are being proactive because likely of fear someone might use it as an excuse to go after people, citing it to "send a message" that it be changed.  

Listen with all of the nut jobs out here and social justice warriors that protest anything and everything, I understand the (MTA) taking these steps. Supposedly people have been protesting this design for years. Just seems ridiculous. There are far better things to be protesting. I always wonder where in the hell people find the time to protest all of this nonsense?

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Not only that but they stand for something completely different. It's a waste of money and time. Oh the tiles look like the confederate flag. Who would even be thinking about that except for people looking for something to complain about because everything is racist these days. Give me a break. I'm so sick of people and their BS "outrage". <_< These tiles represent Times Square and it being the crossroads of the world. I see nothing wrong with that and the message being sent, as it's a positive thing.

Can I give a couple of examples of how the money could be better spent then this?

 

21st St/Van Alst (G)

 

Chambers St (J)(Z)

 

The End

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Can I give a couple of examples of how the money could be better spent then this?

 

21st St/Van Alst (G)

 

Chambers St (J)(Z)

 

The End

I'm serious. The last thing I'm doing in a subway station is studying the subway tiles. I may look for a second, but who studies subway tiles that closely? Likely someone with nothing better to do but complain. Really pathetic.

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How many times  did I use that passageway and not notice or think that the tiles represented something other than a crossing? Maybe I considered it as art work that is a part of the designs that have graced the walls of many of the IRT and BMT Stations for over 100 years as I did not look for the hidden meanings.

Seriously, I consider this replacement as pandering of the worst kind to a group of historical illiterates that do not understand (or want to understand) that when history is forgotten, it is repeated again and again. Yes it is pathetic that tiles have now become the focus of these self styled dictators who have declared this as a hate symbol even though millions of people have passed through there over the years and no one said a word except them. Since these geniuses want to change names of streets because the name has honored a person that these self styled dictators did not like then I suggest that Wilson Avenue in Bushwick should get the original name that it had up and until World War I, Hamburg Avenue. After all, Woodrow Wilson, our segregation loving president does not deserve a street named for him either. 

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I'm serious. The last thing I'm doing in a subway station is studying the subway tiles. I may look for a second, but who studies subway tiles that closely? Likely someone with nothing better to do but complain. Really pathetic.

This is only part of the madness that's sweeping the nation as you probably have been aware of. My question is, why now all of a sudden is this becoming an issue?

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This is only part of the madness that's sweeping the nation as you probably have been aware of. My question is, why now all of a sudden is this becoming an issue?

I told you... The social justice warriors. Everyone wants to be politically correct these days. Now we have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to remove anything deemed "offensive" that any idiot interprets to be offensive. My question where does it end? Where is this money coming from to change this tile work? Likely taxpayer dollars to change something that was never a problem for well over several decades. Smh

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What is the solution to this problem? I really cannot say but I feel as the Jewish Voice 08/19/17 Editorial states quite clearly, both sides are the problem. If anything, "a plague on both their houses" is the way I (and I think the vast majority of Americans) feel about both the right and the left. What i see is that "ideology" is trying to push out "truth" as these groups want their views to triumph and will do everything necessary to achieve their goals which is the destruction of America.  What disturbs me is the "herd mentality" of our so called elected leaders who are joining in this phony charade by refusing to condemn the violence and bigotry of both sides and their silence indicates that they are in total agreement with their goals. With what? The destruction of America and its values they are in agreement, if so then why don't they come out and say it so that they can be "unmasked". America was never a nation of "ideology" but a "nation of individuals" that were not afraid to speak their mind. To me, this attempt to revise history reminds me of what is done in totalitarian countries and is a extremely dangerous proposition as it is an attempt to control the events and to control our minds as well.   

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What's next from this great student of American History who is a congresswoman who wants to rename streets? 

The streets in south Williamsburg named for the signers of the Declaration of Independence? The streets in Bedford-Stuyvesant that are named for persons that took part in the revolutionary war? In hearing  the pearls of wisdom emanating from her mouth in the past year , I seriously question whether she knows any American History for every time she says something concerning our history, I wonder what textbook she is using to provide us with her wisdom.

As far as the X in the station, it represents (in my opinion) a switching point between tracks for trains  as the station has numerous ones on both sides of the station. tt also represents the symbol that was on the front of the 42nd Street Crosstown trolley that ran for many years. just north of the location. 

Yes! It is fake news and the problem is that the frauds in the media are providing this pablum as news when it should not be seeing the light of day. If the phony media wanted to cover real news involving this congresswoman and other members of the New York delegation, they would be asking questions about the IT Aide of Debbie Wasserman Schultz who worked for many of them and who had access to intelligence material,He was just was indicted for fraud this past Thursday. Notice how quiet the phony media is about this story but are pushing for the renaming of streets that they do not like 24/7.

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Tiles that resemble a confederate flag? Before I even came on this thread, I'm like, what tiles are these....

 

I've come to the conclusion that all this fake outrage that's become prevalent now, is a direct symptom of boredom with life.

People with no problems (and lots of money) look for problems or manufacture them to stir things up. When you realize that things have become turbulent, you won’t even know who to point fingers at for starting it; the entire populace is already partaking.

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I've come to the conclusion that all this fake outrage that's become prevalent now, is a direct symptom of boredom with life.

I have a scrapbook of quotes (on physical paper). How should I attribute this one?

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This was stupid and annoying, but in the scheme of things it cost nearly nothing to alter, and the only hand-wringing that counted was the media harping on it as if it were a big deal. As noted, only stickers came into play, no stations had funding removed, and nothing actually changed. This was a non-issue.

 

What is the solution to this problem? I really cannot say but I feel as the Jewish Voice 08/19/17 Editorial states quite clearly, both sides are the problem. If anything, "a plague on both their houses" is the way I (and I think the vast majority of Americans) feel about both the right and the left. What i see is that "ideology" is trying to push out "truth" as these groups want their views to triumph and will do everything necessary to achieve their goals which is the destruction of America.  What disturbs me is the "herd mentality" of our so called elected leaders who are joining in this phony charade by refusing to condemn the violence and bigotry of both sides and their silence indicates that they are in total agreement with their goals. With what? The destruction of America and its values they are in agreement, if so then why don't they come out and say it so that they can be "unmasked". America was never a nation of "ideology" but a "nation of individuals" that were not afraid to speak their mind. To me, this attempt to revise history reminds me of what is done in totalitarian countries and is a extremely dangerous proposition as it is an attempt to control the events and to control our minds as well.   

 

As stupid as this episode is, please don't bring that unspeakably racist and ignorant sentiment that "both sides are the problem" to this forum or any. Bitterness and whining, like this, are annoying, but racism and hatred (like those in Charlottesville) are catastrophic for the state of the country. History is not being revised, nor is Confederate history anything to be proud of in any event. Most Confederate moments aren't even from the period--they date to the Daughters of the Confederacy's propaganda movement in the early 20th century to build memorials to their lost war around the country. Even history, in this case, is arbitrary, and what you may think is history rewritten, is truly only a rewritten history being thrown under scrutiny again. 

 

Your point about the "violence and bigotry of both sides" is either so blindingly stupid that you think being anti-racist is as bad as being racist, or just the revealing of your own hatefulness and vitriol. Nobody--and I mean nobody--thinks that anti-Nazi sentiment is as bad as Nazi sentiment. If that were the case, we never would have fought the Germans, my grandparents never would have gone to war, and one of the legs of my family wouldn't have been exterminated. I really hope you take the time to revise some of your opinions on these matters, and note that despite the current president, being a racist is still never a good look. 

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This was stupid and annoying, but in the scheme of things it cost nearly nothing to alter, and the only hand-wringing that counted was the media harping on it as if it were a big deal. As noted, only stickers came into play, no stations had funding removed, and nothing actually changed. This was a non-issue.

 

 

As stupid as this episode is, please don't bring that unspeakably racist and ignorant sentiment that "both sides are the problem" to this forum or any. Bitterness and whining, like this, are annoying, but racism and hatred (like those in Charlottesville) are catastrophic for the state of the country. History is not being revised, nor is Confederate history anything to be proud of in any event. Most Confederate moments aren't even from the period--they date to the Daughters of the Confederacy's propaganda movement in the early 20th century to build memorials to their lost war around the country. Even history, in this case, is arbitrary, and what you may think is history rewritten, is truly only a rewritten history being thrown under scrutiny again. 

 

Your point about the "violence and bigotry of both sides" is either so blindingly stupid that you think being anti-racist is as bad as being racist, or just the revealing of your own hatefulness and vitriol. Nobody--and I mean nobody--thinks that anti-Nazi sentiment is as bad as Nazi sentiment. If that were the case, we never would have fought the Germans, my grandparents never would have gone to war, and one of the legs of my family wouldn't have been exterminated. I really hope you take the time to revise some of your opinions on these matters, and note that despite the current president, being a racist is still never a good look. 

Nobody is saying that the KKK or Nazis or any other racist group is ok.  What was pointed out is there were people that went there to stir the pot... In other words instigators. Regardless of what your views are, marching peacefully for or against something is fine.  That's what America is about.... Freedom of speech. What I took issue with on all sides is the violence, and that's what Interested Rider is pointing out.  In other words, it's not okay for racist groups to attack marchers that are simply exercising their freedoms and right to free speech, BUT that doesn't make it okay for non-racist groups to go out and attack people either, which was what was happening at some of these demonstrations.  It lead to the situation quickly spiraling out of control in Charlottesville and that is not ok.  I don't care for the racist groups either, but that doesn't give me the right to go and attack them.  

 

What's been happening in this country of late to me is disturbing, and that is if the majority of people agree on something, they then feel that they have carte blanche to attack the other side (even physically) and do as they please.  That's not ok.  It needs to stop. It is OK to have differing opinions.  That's what America is all about, but when we have people being attacked for their beliefs that's a big problem.  

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Nobody is saying that the KKK or Nazis or any other racist group is ok.  What was pointed out is there were people that went there to stir the pot... In other words instigators. Regardless of what your views are, marching peacefully for or against something is fine.  That's what America is about.... Freedom of speech. What I took issue with on all sides is the violence, and that's what Interested Rider is pointing out.  In other words, it's not okay for racist groups to attack marchers that are simply exercising their freedoms and right to free speech, BUT that doesn't make it okay for non-racist groups to go out and attack people either, which was what was happening at some of these demonstrations.  It lead to the situation quickly spiraling out of control in Charlottesville and that is not ok.  I don't care for the racist groups either, but that doesn't give me the right to go and attack them.  

 

What's been happening in this country of late to me is disturbing, and that is if the majority of people agree on something, they then feel that they have carte blanche to attack the other side (even physically) and do as they please.  That's not ok.  It needs to stop. It is OK to have differing opinions.  That's what America is all about, but when we have people being attacked for their beliefs that's a big problem.  

 

Racist thugs rammed a car into a crowd and killed an innocent person. There is no equivalency. There was no equal violence. It doesn't exist. There was no counter-attack. Either you are ignoring reality or you choose to reshape it. 

 

Let me repeat that:

 

There is no equivalency whatsoever. Blood is only on one side's hands.

 

And frankly, if it really comes down to it, I'm not even so sure that I think Nazis should be left alone. I err on the side of peace and will not advocate any violence, but by some quite reasonable arguments, we have a moral responsibility to stop any Nazi uprising. The Europeans have made this sort of thing illegal, and while free speech should be privileged, anybody who lost their family in 1939-1945 knows that the gathering and collective rise of Nazi groups should be stopped by any means necessary. We fought a war over this. It isn't very complicated.

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What's next from this great student of American History who is a congresswoman who wants to rename streets? 

The streets in south Williamsburg named for the signers of the Declaration of Independence? The streets in Bedford-Stuyvesant that are named for persons that took part in the revolutionary war? In hearing  the pearls of wisdom emanating from her mouth in the past year , I seriously question whether she knows any American History for every time she says something concerning our history, I wonder what textbook she is using to provide us with her wisdom.

As far as the X in the station, it represents (in my opinion) a switching point between tracks for trains  as the station has numerous ones on both sides of the station. tt also represents the symbol that was on the front of the 42nd Street Crosstown trolley that ran for many years. just north of the location. 

Yes! It is fake news and the problem is that the frauds in the media are providing this pablum as news when it should not be seeing the light of day. If the phony media wanted to cover real news involving this congresswoman and other members of the New York delegation, they would be asking questions about the IT Aide of Debbie Wasserman Schultz who worked for many of them and who had access to intelligence material,He was just was indicted for fraud this past Thursday. Notice how quiet the phony media is about this story but are pushing for the renaming of streets that they do not like 24/7.

Yes, the media has an agenda these days.  Some networks used to just give you the news. Not any more. Everyone gets to report things with an angle to them.  It's pathetic.  The media also won't call out the hooligans that showed up to stir the pot down in Virginia because they weren't racist, so that gives them the right to destroy property and attack other people.

 

This isn't the first time that we've seen demonstrations turn violent.  We've even had demonstrations turn violent here, but nope, everyone showing up to these events should not be called out because they're marching for a good cause, even if they are instigators.  That is just total BS.  

Racist thugs rammed a car into a crowd and killed an innocent person. There is no equivalency. There was no equal violence. It doesn't exist. There was no counter-attack. Either you are ignoring reality or you choose to reshape it. 

 

Let me repeat that:

 

There is no equivalency whatsoever. Blood is only on one side's hands.

 

And frankly, if it really comes down to it, I'm not even so sure that I think Nazis should be left alone. I err on the side of peace and will not advocate any violence, but by some quite reasonable arguments, we have a moral responsibility to stop any Nazi uprising. The Europeans have made this sort of thing illegal, and while free speech should be privileged, anybody who lost their family in 1939-1945 knows that the gathering and collective rise of Nazi groups should be stopped by any means necessary. We fought a war over this. It isn't very complicated.

No one is denying the actions of the racists, but that still has nothing to do with the people on the other side that showed up to the event to instigate and start problems.

 

So you don't think Nazis should have a right to protest. Fine.  But the laws here in the US say that they do just as much as you do.  We as a society cannot go out and attack people every time we disagree with their beliefs, and that is something that is destroying our society.  There's a lot of things that I don't agree with but I don't go out attacking people.  That's just childish, ignorant and absurd, and the fact that you advocate such behavior is not surprising because you have a problem with people don't see everything your way.  You just think you're morally superior because you supposedly don't harbor racist ideals. Big deal. You advocate for violence for those who disagree with your beliefs.  That's not much better.

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 No one is denying the actions of the racists, but that still has nothing to do with the people on the other side that showed up to the event to instigate and start problems.

 

So you don't think Nazis should have a right to protest. Fine.  But the laws here in the US say that they do just as much as you do.  We as a society cannot go out and attack people every time we disagree with their beliefs, and that is something that is destroying our society.  There's a lot of things that I don't agree with but I don't go out attacking people.  That's just childish, ignorant and absurd, and the fact that you advocate such behavior is not surprising because you have a problem with people don't see everything your way.  You just think you're morally superior because you supposedly don't harbor racist ideals. Big deal. You advocate for violence for those who disagree with your beliefs.  That's not much better.

 

I explicitly said I am not advocating violence. You missed that part. But I am anti-Nazi rise, without any hesitation.

 

And also, don't be an idiot. Of course I feel morally superior for not harboring racist ideals. Racists are scum. They are immoral, they are nothing, and they deserve no respect. They won't get mine, they shouldn't get yours, and they shouldn't get anybody's.

 

Yes, the media has an agenda these days.  Some networks used to just give you the news. Not any more. Everyone gets to report things with an angle to them.  It's pathetic.  The media also won't call out the hooligans that showed up to stir the pot down in Virginia because they weren't racist, so that gives them the right to destroy property and attack other people.

 

This isn't the first time that we've seen demonstrations turn violent.  We've even had demonstrations turn violent here, but nope, everyone showing up to these events should not be called out because they're marching for a good cause, even if they are instigators.  That is just total BS.  

 

Racists killed an innocent woman. Show me the deaths at the hand of anti-racists. We're all waiting. 

 

And keep defending racists while you're at it. Show us your true colors. 

 

It makes me sad that NYCTF has grow overrun by neocon right-wing fanatics and such misinformed posters. It'll be 7 years I've posted here soon, around 8 looking at the forum. I remember some real thinkers on here back in the day. SubwayGuy was a wise one, Realizm was a great mind, lots of truly intelligent people. We'd all go back and forth, but the discussion was real. We even used to have employees on here, until the constant bitching and whining by people who knew nothing about their jobs drove them off. Hard to blame them when you look at the threads these days, 8/10 just linked tabloid articles about how the subway sucks, with the last one of Brooklynbus's links to his own writing and some assorted insane proposal for the brown <R>. Sad stuff.

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Racists killed an innocent woman. Show me the deaths at the hand of anti-racists. We're all waiting. 

 

And keep defending racists while you're at it. Show us your true colors. 

 

It makes me sad that NYCTF has grow overrun by neocon right-wing fanatics and such misinformed posters. It'll be 7 years I've posted here soon, around 8 looking at the forum. I remember some real thinkers on here back in the day. SubwayGuy was a wise one, Realizm was a great mind, lots of truly intelligent people. We'd all go back and forth, but the discussion was real. We even used to have employees on here, until the constant bitching and whining by people who knew nothing about their jobs drove them off. Hard to blame them when you look at the threads these days, 8/10 just linked tabloid articles about how the subway sucks, with the last one of Brooklynbus's links to his own writing and some assorted insane proposal for the brown <R>. Sad stuff.

BrooklynBus is a retired (MTA) employee.  We still have (MTA) employees on here.  So you disagree with BrooklynBus.  That doesn't make him ignorant about the entire system, but yet again, anyone who disagrees with you is misinformed and racist.  Smh

 

Yes, there's someone that died and that's a tragedy.  The point was maybe if there weren't instigators on both sides that showed up to the event, perhaps the situation wouldn't have become deadly in the first place, but no no no, we can't possibly think that way because MHV disagrees.  <_<

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Yes, there's someone that died and that's a tragedy.  The point was maybe if there weren't instigators on both sides that showed up to the event, perhaps the situation wouldn't have become deadly in the first place, but no no no, we can't possibly think that way because MHV disagrees.  <_<

 

Her death was not INSTIGATED. Jesus tapdancing Christ. NOBODY made a racist plow into a crowd. That was all, all him. There was no instigation. 

 

And just know that if Nazis rise, they sure as hell won't be accepting you on their side. Keep fighting their fight for them. 

 

I'm done with this conversation. 

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Her death was not INSTIGATED. Jesus tapdancing Christ. NOBODY made a racist plow into a crowd. That was all, all him. There was no instigation. 

 

And just know that if Nazis rise, they sure as hell won't be accepting you on their side. Keep fighting their fight for them. 

 

I'm done with this conversation. 

Yes because everyone was just acting oh so nicely before he showed up.  <_< And yes, there's no point in continuing because you won't stop foaming at the mouth about racism this and racism that.  Oh my God there's racism in 2017. Imagine that.  In MHV's world, we'd all get together (at least we'd pretend to anyway) because we wouldn't have a choice since there would only be ONE point of view on everything.  His point of view.   The people that yell about racism the most tend to be the most closeted racists anyway, so I never get to worked up about those people.  If you're not racist, you don't need to claim extreme outrage every time something happens to show you're not "one of them".   

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