Riders, lawmakers ask MTA to improve bus service

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Riders, lawmakers ask MTA to improve bus service

 

By: ZACHARY KIESCH

POSTED: AUG 22 2017 10:47PM EDT

UPDATED: AUG 22 2017 11:02PM EDT

NEW YORK (FOX 5 NEWS) - New York City's subway crisis is getting all the headlines this summer, but New Yorkers who use MTA buses to get around are saying, "Don't forget about us."

 

Sitting around waiting for the bus is an experience a lot of New Yorkers can relate to. A lot of commuters told Fox 5 News that their taxes and fares go to the service and that the buses ought to be on time.

 

Folks in Assemblywoman's Carmen De La Rosa's community in Upper Manhattan rely on public transportation. And not just subways -- buses are a necessity for many. She said that the buses are often overcrowded and arrive late or in bunches.

 

 

Critics say that the MTA plans to replace the MetroCard but hasn't figured a way to make boarding buses more efficient. These were the types of ideas discussed today in Lower Manhattan, including utilizing a more efficient approach and following the lead of cities like San Francisco.

 

Politicians are calling for more focus on the bus system.

 

"Reliable and strong bus service is a key priority of the MTA which is exactly why we are installing Transit Signalization Prioritization technology across our fleet and exploring ways to expand all door boarding," the MTA said in a statement.

 

De La Rosa is calling on the MTA and the state to invest in the bus system to make it efficient and operational. 

[FLX9304]

Don't you......... forget about me.......

Don't, don't, don't, don't

Don't.... you...........forget about me......

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[CenSin]

Not making such a ridiculous amount of stops in the first place would be a great start. Even the slowest of buses should only have stops every 3 street blocks, or 1 avenue block. The limited buses should mimic local trains by making stops every 8 to 12 street blocks or 3 avenue blocks. More express buses should be put into service that mimic express trains along key corridors like Utica Avenue in Brooklyn and 3 Avenue in the Bronx.

[Interested Rider]

If you want to understand the reason that bus service is so poor read Brooklyn Bus' insightful response to my recent comments on the Brooklyn thread on this forum. His response is quite revealing to what i wrote and even though it involves Brooklyn. it can be applied to the entire system. I will be responding to his insights on the subject in a couple of days to elaborate as what I wrote in my original comments with some  more comments .on the subject.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

Not making such a ridiculous amount of stops in the first place would be a great start. Even the slowest of buses should only have stops every 3 street blocks, or 1 avenue block. The limited buses should mimic local trains by making stops every 8 to 12 street blocks or 3 avenue blocks. More express buses should be put into service that mimic express trains along key corridors like Utica Avenue in Brooklyn and 3 Avenue in the Bronx.

do you think allowing Request-A-Stop for rush hour routes would be a good way to get people on their way, at least in Manhattan?

Currently, RAS is only available between 10 PM and 5 AM.

 

Eric Shields | MassTransitHonchkrow

Proud EasyPay Express Unlimited Customer - PPR mode

Level 5 Google Local Guide for Southern NY State

Check out my photography, DeskThemePacks and more -

https://masstransithonchkrow.deviantart.com/gallery

Sent from my HP ENVY m6 Notebook PC using Tapatalk using Remix OS

[S78 via Hylan]

Not making such a ridiculous amount of stops in the first place would be a great start. Even the slowest of buses should only have stops every 3 street blocks, or 1 avenue block. The limited buses should mimic local trains by making stops every 8 to 12 street blocks or 3 avenue blocks. More express buses should be put into service that mimic express trains along key corridors like Utica Avenue in Brooklyn and 3 Avenue in the Bronx.

In addition to this, not having operators sit at green lights or drive at a snail's pace to avoid being too early. This means that schedules/runtimes would need to be adjusted.

[MetroTransitTee]

All I want to say is that

They don't really care about us.

[East New York]

I wish some of you all could see how things operate from the inside.

 

Most ALL bus stops are dictated by the flow of passengers at said stop and eliminating some of them will cause people to move away from the bus because it's no longer as convenient.

 

Many schedule times definitely need to be adjusted accordingly, however that won't solve all issues. Especially buses being early which is dictated by passenger and traffic flow 99% of the time. Some of you also for years and years seem to keep forgetting that just because 2-4 buses arrive at the same time DOES NOT mean that they are bunched. They could be "chasing" each other and 2 can be scheduled at the same time point which will not show up on the schedule because one is a leader and one is a follower scheduled at the same stop at the same time. The next buses behind could be on the same type of block run.

 

So again, just because you see more than one bus pull up doesn't mean they are bunched.

 

Limited buses should NOT just mimic trains. They should be routed to stop when and where demand is needed. Utica for example is over saturated with SBS service at this point because the bus runs so frequently. Most runs converted to SBS see minor cuts in service. The B46 maintained the same levels. The problem is speeding up local service in this city.

 

And request-a-stop during the middle of the day??? That's a joke right!??

 

It's true that some within the MTA don't care, but more do than not. If it weren't the case then service would be much worse than it is. The thing is this management shuffle has had a negative impact or service standards, and operations planning.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

In addition to this, not having operators sit at green lights or drive at a snail's pace to avoid being too early. This means that schedules/runtimes would need to be adjusted.

 

Are you saying that some routes have too much running time?

 

 

De La Rosa is calling on the MTA and the state to invest in the bus system to make it efficient and operational. 

 

There aren't enough buses sitting around to add rush-hour service on any route without cutting some other route (as I recall, all new buses coming in are end-of-life replacements).

[S78 via Hylan]

Are you saying that some routes have too much running time?

 

Yes, I am. Summer is a perfect example as school is not in session, so trips are usually a bit faster. The problem is that most schedules aren't updated to reflect that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There aren't enough buses sitting around to add rush-hour service on any route without cutting some other route (as I recall, all new buses coming in are end-of-life replacements).

There's enough money sitting around to add rush-hour service on any route without cutting some other route.  See how I fixed that? 

[B35 via Church]

.....Some of you also for years and years seem to keep forgetting that just because 2-4 buses arrive at the same time DOES NOT mean that they are bunched.

 

They could be "chasing" each other and 2 can be scheduled at the same time point which will not show up on the schedule because one is a leader and one is a follower scheduled at the same stop at the same time. The next buses behind could be on the same type of block run.

 

So again, just because you see more than one bus pull up doesn't mean they are bunched.

Paired groupings I already realize is going on throughout the city; it tends to go on with local routes that have more than one type of service (local/LTD, local/SBS)....

 

However, I can't fathom the MTA purposefully scheduling 3 or 4 buses on some route in clusters (to arrive at some location), for it to not constitute bus bunching - especially if we're talking about high headway routes.... Taking a milder situation than that, some pair of buses (that are not bunched) chasing each other that are right behind another pair of buses (that are not bunched) chasing each other on some low headway route, still resorts to bus bunching....

 

Example: If I see 2 B46's on the SE corner of Utica/Church (on the other side of the light) waiting to pull into the stop & 2 more B46's on the NE corner (at the bus stop), there's nothing that doesn't say bunching about that.....

(I've actually seen worse than 4 on a number of occasions, but that's neither here nor there)

 

I will agree though that the general consensus of the general public deems that whenever there's 1 bus behind another one, oh it's bunching, NQA... I'd go as far as to say that most people don't live around high frequency routes, so to see 1 bus behind another will evoke concerns/nervousness.... For me though, it's much of nothing (B35, B46, B44, B12)....

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Unless there's more service being run that what's placed on the schedule then 2 buses back to back is bunching, period. Find me a schedule where this "chasing" phenomenon ENY mentions is accounted for. I have yet to see it. Bunching doesn't always mean the buses bunching are late since there's a 5 minute window between the exact times posted in which a bus can run on-time and on some routes headways are lower than 5 minutes during rush hour but that's the exception rather than the rule. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

There's enough money sitting around to add rush-hour service on any route without cutting some other route.  See how I fixed that? 

 

It's not "fixed" at all. There may be money to pay an additional driver, but that means nothing without a physical bus for him/her to drive.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's not "fixed" at all. There may be money to pay an additional driver, but that means nothing without a physical bus for him/her to drive.

You clearly don't know what a surplus is. The City is sitting on tons of cash to pay for both, so it could be "fixed".

[Interested Rider]

If i learned one thing from my years of taking five buses or two buses, two trains and two buses one way to work for over twenty years was that the same run on five different days could arrive at the five different times based on traffic and other factors. One of the reasons that I liked it when a driver did both halves of  his/her daily schedule on the same route was the ability to put in place when there were delays on a route. This reduced the amount of delays as compared with the first half is on one route and the second half on another route for when the driver is late on the first route, then  the second route a has a  problem as now the driver is late getting to the second route. The second is traffic and traffic flows which hinder buses in their operation. Not every street has a free flow of traffic and since many of them have businesses that need deliveries, the bus is subject to delays and on and on. When there were dispatchers on the street (the number has been reduced to extremely low levels) changes could be made quickly. People sitting in an office watching a computer screen is an extremely inefficient way to combat delays as unless you are out on the street, day in and day out, the office people cannot propose a solution to a problem that could be resolved through visual examination and being on the street helps to pinpoint the problem and thus come up with a solution.

There is another problem that is not only with bus service, it is with government itself. At one time, employees and members of the public had more of a say in the operations of an agency. Today we live in a bureaucratic society where everything is a top down structure and thus the ability to make decisions based on feedback from the employees and the public is severely restricted. Thus the ability to information that would improve service becomes "a photo op" or "how many people you represent" is how attention is paid on an issue. Bus service is a "non issue" when politicians get elected and re-elected for doing nothing and the only time that attention is paid is when a politician is being challenged. Personally, I do not believe that anything will ever get done as the persons making the decisions are so insulated from the riders that to them, it is the computer screen and saving pennies is more of a priority to them then quality service. The persons that worked hard at making changes have been marginalized, frustrated and have retired from government and those who would like to implement change are smothered by the bureaucracy today. 

[East New York]

I agree with Interestef Rider 100%.

 

I actually have to agree with Gotham Bus on his last statement as well VG8. We have more than 2000 buses on order and EVERY new order now includes buses for service increase and contingency. Surplus or not, it takes a very long time from start to finish in the order process. You can hire ppl, but you need to have buses for revenue and spares in case of a breakdown or accident. With 400 new artics coming in, about 140 of them are retiring and or bumping 40 footers, so by 2019-2020 for the first time in history we should have more than enough buses to cover service citywide.

 

It doesn't matter how much money The City is sitting in because they are not responsible for or required to supply funding to the MTA. That's the job of The State which is requesting that The City now start contributing more than they ever have.

 

@B35 and JBX12: Please hold that thought while I pull up the run lists.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree with Interestef Rider 100%.

 

I actually have to agree with Gotham Bus on his last statement as well VG8. We have more than 2000 buses on order and EVERY new order now includes buses for service increase and contingency. Surplus or not, it takes a very long time from start to finish in the order process. You can hire ppl, but you need to have buses for revenue and spares in case of a breakdown or accident. With 400 new artics coming in, about 140 of them are retiring and or bumping 40 footers, so by 2019-2020 for the first time in history we should have more than enough buses to cover service citywide.

 

It doesn't matter how much money The City is sitting in because they are not responsible for or required to supply funding to the MTA. That's the job of The State which is requesting that The City now start contributing more than they ever have.

 

@B35 and JBX12: Please hold that thought while I pull up the run lists.....

I don't agree with either bit. One minute the has enough buses and the next they don't. It's an old tired story. Get maintenance in line and you'll see less of this shortage nonsense. Funny how every mayoral candidate currently running agrees that the City should be forking over more except de Blasio with his ongoing rhetoric about how it is all on the State. It technically is but if the City really wants things to improve they're going to have to start putting forth more money. It's that simple. They're encouraging all of this development but don't want to bear any responsibility for the increase in the population and the increase in the need for more service. A responsible mayor would put politics aside and stop talking about monies that was given to the YEARS ago, and if what I'm saying is so bizarre then I guess the union doesn't know what it's talking about either, but it too agrees that the City should be giving more. Given the massive amount of monies that both the State AND City hasn't been giving over the years, they both need to start doing their part instead of pointing fingers and making excuses. We need results now.

 

City residents don't want to keep hearing about how it's the State's fault. They will expect the City to step up and provide funding to get this mess under control, and hopefully they will wake up and listen to the other candidates and vote this idiot out of office. He is alienating Lhota at the who he should be working with, alienating the NYPD who keeps our streets safe. Smh

[East New York]

It's actually common sense from an operations standpoint VG8. Some agencies order 10 buses here and 50 buses there. MTA purchases buses in bulk and they all have Manufacture Specified Maintenance Schedules. If we have 200 buses that need to be rotated out for scheduled maintenance, then unplanned breakdowns and traffic accidents, that stresses the system even further. I understand where u are coming from but MTA can't afford to have extra buses on standby when they cost a half million dollars each on average. The City of New York needs to contribute more. Period.

 

As far as my point about buses being scheduled at the same time. I've pulled up several examples. Most all of them are on runs/routes with 40 foot buses. The B6 and B35 are the routes I will focus on for the purposes of showing you all what I am talking about. As soon as I get a chance to upload screenshots in a few I will. Notice that the printed schedule and bus stops will not show all the timepoints from the database I am screenshotting.

 

I will point out "Same timepoint" runs, leader/follower runs, and the "chaser situation" I was talking about which is where buses are scheduled 1-4 minutes or less apart and are not printed, and will be guaranteed to pull up back to back to each other at some point in time during the day.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

You clearly don't know what a surplus is. The City is sitting on tons of cash to pay for both, so it could be "fixed".

 

My next door neighbor may have money, but that doesn't help me to buy a new car. The City is not the MTA. The MTA is a state-level public authority, while the City is a city.

 

Having money for buses is not the same as having physical buses. You can't ride a dollar bill. 

Given the massive amount of monies that both the State AND City hasn't been giving over the years, they both need to start doing their part instead of pointing fingers and making excuses. We need results now.

 

City residents don't want to keep hearing about how it's the State's fault. They will expect the City to step up and provide funding to get this mess under control, and hopefully they will wake up and listen to the other candidates and vote this idiot out of office. He is alienating Lhota at the who he should be working with, alienating the NYPD who keeps our streets safe. Smh

 

This is true. The enabling legislation allows the City to take back control of the transit system (bus and subway) at any time, but with 100% control comes 100% responsibility for the system (which is why the City never has tried to take back control).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My next door neighbor may have money, but that doesn't help me to buy a new car. The City is not the MTA. The MTA is a state-level public authority, while the City is a city.

 

Having money for buses is not the same as having physical buses. You can't ride a dollar bill.

and We're not talking about your next door neighbor. I don't even know why we're talking about a lack of buses because the issue here is that the current service stinks because buses run late and bunch. Adding more buses won't make a difference unless the current service is better managed.

 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

and We're not talking about your next door neighbor. I don't even know why we're talking about a lack of buses because the issue here is that the current service stinks because buses run late and bunch. Adding more buses won't make a difference unless the current service is better managed.

 

 

My (rather obvious) point is that your argument (MTA can easily get buses because the City has money) is invalid because the City and the MTA are not the same entity.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My (rather obvious) point is that your argument (MTA can easily get buses because the City has money) is invalid because the City and the MTA are not the same entity.

Using that as an excuse is rather obvious.

[checkmatechamp13]

Most ALL bus stops are dictated by the flow of passengers at said stop and eliminating some of them will cause people to move away from the bus because it's no longer as convenient.

 

Yes, there's always going to be some lazy people where if you have them walk one little block for the bus, they'll go call a taxi/Uber/car service or something. But in general, I'd say stops in this city could stand to be a little further apart. The people you lose who aren't willing to walk an extra block will be more than made up for by the people attracted to the quicker service.

 

Also, the MTA can be very lazy with placing bus stops. For example, the westbound S93 stop has a stop by Victory & Willow Road East, and the next stop is literally a mile away inside CSI (and don't give me any nonsense about it being a limited route, because it's local west of Jewett, and a lot of people are being screwed over by it basically skipping the one stop that serves the neighborhood west of CSI because they were too lazy to stick a pole in the ground). Down on the South Shore, the S74/78/84 have no stops between Bricktown and Arthur Kill Road, a distance of over a half mile, even with all the shopping centers around that area.

 

So you have a situation where some bus stops are clustered ridiculously close together, and ridiculously far apart, instead of even spacing throughout the system.  

 

Paired groupings I already realize is going on throughout the city; it tends to go on with local routes that have more than one type of service (local/LTD, local/SBS)....

 

However, I can't fathom the MTA purposefully scheduling 3 or 4 buses on some route in clusters (to arrive at some location), for it to not constitute bus bunching - especially if we're talking about high headway routes.... Taking a milder situation than that, some pair of buses (that are not bunched) chasing each other that are right behind another pair of buses (that are not bunched) chasing each other on some low headway route, still resorts to bus bunching....

 

Example: If I see 2 B46's on the SE corner of Utica/Church (on the other side of the light) waiting to pull into the stop & 2 more B46's on the NE corner (at the bus stop), there's nothing that doesn't say bunching about that.....

(I've actually seen worse than 4 on a number of occasions, but that's neither here nor there)

 

I will agree though that the general consensus of the general public deems that whenever there's 1 bus behind another one, oh it's bunching, NQA... I'd go as far as to say that most people don't live around high frequency routes, so to see 1 bus behind another will evoke concerns/nervousness.... For me though, it's much of nothing (B35, B46, B44, B12)....

 

Unless there's more service being run that what's placed on the schedule then 2 buses back to back is bunching, period. Find me a schedule where this "chasing" phenomenon ENY mentions is accounted for. I have yet to see it. Bunching doesn't always mean the buses bunching are late since there's a 5 minute window between the exact times posted in which a bus can run on-time and on some routes headways are lower than 5 minutes during rush hour but that's the exception rather than the rule. 

 

To be fair, out here in SI, we have some trips where there's two buses meeting the same ferry that leave back to back. (Usually something like say, 9:00PM and 9:01PM or something along those lines). Then there's also trippers where you'll see a whole bunch of buses leave right behind each other during school dismissal times (I always thought it was stupid when they left at the same time. I'd rather they be load up-and-go so the kids in a rush and people further down the line have at least a little bit of spacing between buses).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, there's always going to be some lazy people where if you have them walk one little block for the bus, they'll go call a taxi/Uber/car service or something. But in general, I'd say stops in this city could stand to be a little further apart. The people you lose who aren't willing to walk an extra block will be more than made up for by the people attracted to the quicker service.

 

The S93 isn't there to serve all of those people. It's primary purpose is to serve CSI students. Quite frankly they should get CSI it's own shuttle buses and call it a day. Whoever benefits from the service is lucky because I doubt that service would exist otherwise.