dkupf

The people of the Rockaways fought long and hard for the current service, routings, and bus stops.  “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”:

Q22 – Maintain current routing west of Beach 108 St.  No span changes.

Q35 – Maintain current routing via Newport Ave.  Extend select trips daily to Rockaway NYC Ferry Terminal.

Now is the time for the MTA to prepare bus service for when the renovations would be complete:

Q9 – Extend, permanently, via current Q10 Local to Lefferts Blvd AirTrain Station.

Q37 – Extend, permanently, via Federal Circle to JFK Cargo Area.

If the Q72 is extended from its southern segment, via the Q38 to Metropolitan Ave, service would be streamlined.  There would be connections between the M Train, in Middle Village, and all LGA terminals.

The Q59 would be extended via 62 Dr/63 Ave to compensate for the loss of the Q38.

With the proposed extension of the Q43 to Long Island Jewish Hospital, I think that Union Turnpike service would now be in balance.

I think that the service span for the Q48 should operate from Kew Gardens weekdays until 11:30 PM, and operate weekends when the Union Turnpike corridor would be every 15 minutes or better.

I think that some elements of the New Draft Plan exist in order to keep bus stops farther apart.  For example, north of Flushing, on Union Street, where the Q20 local and the Q44-SBS currently operate, the Q20 is proposed to be shifted to operate via the current Q34.  The Q20 is also proposed to be cut back from Jamaica to Queens Blvd/Main St.  This would leave the Q44-SBS by itself.  The stops currently used solely by the Q20 on Union Street and south of Queens Blvd/Main St are proposed to be eliminated.

The extension of the Q44-SBS in the Bronx could be problematic, as this could make the route unmanageable.

The Q61 is proposed to be Rush Service, operate nonstop via Union Street, and only operate during the weekday peak.  Bayside wants more service, not less.

Besides, having the Q28 be the only service in Bay Terrace is not a good idea.  The Old Draft Plan was better in this sense.

The operation of the Q76 via 20 Avenue between Clintonville St and Parsons Blvd could be problematic, because, as a two-way street, may be too narrow for effective service.

What are your opinions regarding the Q58 and Q98? I think that sending the Q58 in Corona via 51 Avenue/52 Avenue could be problematic, as that they could be too narrow for effective service.

The MTA website has provided the new schedules effective Sunday, March 27th:

B6

B15

B16

B44-SBS

B49

Bx11

Bx19

Bx36

Q3

Q5

Q10

Q22

Q85

Q111

S40/S90

There is a discussion board for the B15/Q3/Q10 service and route changes that has been up for a while.

On 3/19/2022 at 11:22 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

But why not a busier route like the BxM7? I know the BxM5 is more "central" in the North Bronx, but that doesn't mean people are going to start driving to it like they do on Staten Island (where driving and switching off between express routes are common)

That could be done instead of extending the proposed BxM5.

1 minute ago, dkupf said:

I wasn't clear about this.  I suggested extending some BxM5 trips to serve the Financial District in my testimony.

My bad.

Why did I suggest this?  I wished to maintain the status quo in Manhattan with the exception of the BxM18.

On 3/18/2022 at 12:40 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

...I didn't see anything about a BxM5 extension to Downtown. From what I recall, the only Bronx neighborhood that was supposed to receive Downtown express bus service besides Riverdale was Co-Op City, and that was canceled in exchange for maintaining some rush hour Q50 service....

I wasn't clear about this.  I suggested extending some BxM5 trips to serve the Financial District in my testimony.

My bad.

16 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

...what "meandering" are you referring to when the BxM8 doesn't even make stops via Middletown Road? Making a stop along Crosby is serving a commercial area and a residential area and giving riders an option that live further out and would either have a longer subway ride or have to deal w/transferring, etc....

What I meant was that City Island riders want faster service.  That could be done by cutting out the Crosby/Middletown segment.

Or, it could also make fewer stops, but that would be counterproductive.

BTW, I hate that the MTA and NYCDOT are eliminating three local stops in City Island.  But that's for a different thread.

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well the people that use the lines are the ones that disagreed, and quite loudly I may add. The plans in question are supposed to take into account what the actual users have to say about the service they are paying for, so if you're saying all of this just because of the plans themselves without considering any of the feedback or petitions that hundreds and hundreds of people signed and showed up at the open houses and Town Hall meetings for then, then yeah, I guess it doesn't matter what the riders have to say, but that is why many of the routes were scrapped.

If no one is riding the new routes, then they are a failure. That is also the point of the Redesigns... To INCREASE ridership and make the routes attract new users, not just roll them out because they look good on paper. Did you actually attend any of the in-person meetings, or listen to any of the  meetings to see what they said about the feedback they received and why they scrapped these plans, or to did you just look at them on paper and conclude they were great without considering the actual riders?

For example, BxM11 may run via White Plains Rd, but it runs down 5th Av, so it is not "competing" with the subway since neither the  nor the  serve 5th Av or Madison. Totally different ridership base.

Remember what happened to the X29, as that Coney Island Ave is a short walk to the B and Q Trains.

I have attended most of the workshops and information sessions.  I have also attended the public hearings.

It's common sense that most current BxM11 riders live east of White Plains Road, as that, in northern Bronx, the Bronx River is a natural barrier to mobility west of White Plains Road.  The BxM5 was proposed to serve Wakefield and Woodlawn, then travel direct to Manhattan.  Both changes would have decreased passenger travel times.

The BxM18 was proposed to be shifted in Manhattan to directly serve Hudson Yards (another good idea that would have decreased passenger travel times), the extension of some BxM5 trips to serve the Financial District also made sense.

Ridership is significantly lower during the reverse peak and off peak, the BxM5 and BxM11 should combine during these times as that these are transit deserts.

It's clear that BxM8 City Island riders don't wish to meander via Middletown Road.  Only those trips would be rerouted.

As I said, the status quo should be maintained for the BxM2 and BxM3.

For Queens, I believe that for the premium that the people pay for express bus service, the service variations within Manhattan should be maximized, but simple and easy to understand.  For the Old Draft Plan (ODP), I commended the MTA for the express bus routing nomenclature.  The middle digit determined the route path within Manhattan:

·         0 = Downtown

·         1 = 34th Street

·         3 = 3rd Avenue

·         5 = Madison Ave

·         6, 7 = 6th Avenue

I also commended the MTA for adding more Downtown Manhattan express bus service.  But they know the Service Guidelines Manual (SGM) and should not have violated them in most situations.  There were significant amount of express bus services, in the ODP, when the first trip started at 4:00PM, and the second at 5:00PM.  Note that the 4:30PM trip was missing.  And, during the weekday PM Peak, most trips left at the same time.  This would have been a recipe for disaster!  But this was only a draft; I am sure that there would have been adjustments.

The QMT169  and QMT170 (QM17), would have given riders in the Rockaways a faster trip.  The result was backlash in Howard Beach.  But the two stops in Howard Beach that are currently utilized by the QM15 are only served, appropriately, during the weekday peak.  QMT168 riders would have benefited because it would have served more of Howard Beach, especially during the weekday off-peak and Saturdays.

The ODP showed that the only express bus services that would have operated outside of the Weekday Peak were the QMT164, QMT166, and QMT168, and none on Sunday!  Was express bus service ridership in Queens before The Pandemic that low?!  I doubt it.

I thought that those who live in Beechhurst and Bay Terrace had the right to be upset with the ODP.  The express bus stops at 160th Street & Cross Island Pkwy are currently well-utilized.  Hence, stops should be added in this area.  I also thought that reverse peak, weekday evening, and weekend service were, and are currently, viable. In the ODP the QMT163 and QMT165 were proposed to have weekday evening trips.  This meant that the corridors for these two routes, as per the SGM, should also have had weekday midday trips and, possibly, Saturday trips.  Here are what I suggested for northern Queens compared to the ODP:

·         QMT103 – Operate via Beechhurst with more stops, more trips, and more frequent service.

·         QMT133 – Mimics the QM32 route path in Queens, with more stops in Beechhurst, more trips, and more frequent service;

·         QMT163 – Operate weekdays only.  Operate in a clockwise loop with more stops in Beechhurst and more frequent service;

·         QMT164 – Operate weekdays only.  Service span as per the SGM; and

·         New QMT171 – Mimics the QM2 weekend route path in Queens.  Operates reverse peak, weekday evenings, and weekends, i.e. when the QMT163 and QMT164 did not operate;

Electchester, Forest Hills, Glen Oaks, and Lake Success were also upset with the ODP.  The MTA wished to eliminate all express bus stops from Queens Blvd for 3rd Ave and 6th Ave Manhattan service, forcing people onto an already overcrowded subway.  The SGM already makes this an exception to the rule; express bus service should be maintained at these stops.  The MTA also wished to eliminate 3rd Ave Manhattan service via Union Turnpike east of Fresh Meadows.  Here are what I had suggested for central and eastern Queens compared to the ODP:

·         QMT135 – Mimics the QM36 in Queens;

·         New QMT136 – Mimics the QM44 route path east of Queens Blvd.  Makes stops on Queens Blvd between Jewel Ave/69th Road and the Long Island Expressway;

·         QMT162 – Operate weekday evenings and Saturdays as per the SGM.  Makes stops on Queens Blvd between Jewel Ave/69th Road and the Long Island Expressway;

·         QMT167 – Mimics the QM6 in Queens.  Operate weekday evenings and weekends as per the SGM; and

·         QMT157 – Mimics the X68 route path in Queens;

I thought that all other QMT routes in the ODP should have been done as proposed.

What are your thoughts regarding what I had suggested?  What could I have done to make it better?  Though this would be hindsight, I still wish to know.

I, however, am in the school of thought that express bus service should complement the subway, not compete with it.

For example, in The Bronx, I think that the rerouted BxM11 and proposed BxM5 were good ideas.  During the off peak and reverse peak, I would have combined the two services.

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That being said, I thought that the rerouted BxM18, via Hudson Yards, was also a good idea.  But, I would have extended some peak-hour peak-direction BxM5 trips to/from the Financial District to compensate for the loss.

For the BxM2 and BxM3, I would have maintained the status quo.

For the other Bronx express bus services, I would have changed them the way the MTA proposed in the Final Plan before their removal from the Plan.

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Living around here, I often think about how far the B46 has fallen (including during the ride this past Saturday when I took it home from WBP)... Along Utica, I've never seen so many near (or literally) empty buses arriving at Church av. (from either direction) ever since the B46 SBS became a thing.... Growing up in the 80's & 90's, that just wasn't happening... And on top of it, in terms of traffic, Utica av. was nightmarish.... Well worse than at Flatbush/Church even.... Gridlock would sometimes occur at Linden during the PM rush; I remember days where it would take almost an hour to get from the to Church (I would gun for the locals... weren't getting involved in those shoving/bumping matched to get on the LTD)... All this, and buses would still be packed to the gills (again, either direction)...

...the days where even the LTD's from WBP during peak periods would take about 90 mins. from end to end, they were so delayed... The Broadway portion of the B46 took a major hit, usage-wise; if not for that area around Woodhull (Thornton, Flushing stops), you're going to notice straggler level ridership for that stretch of the route (SB specifically I'm speaking... WBP bound is actually worse)... Crazy to see the Myrtle av. stop not garnering nearly as many ppl. as it used to... There has been numerous times in recent years where a B46 ride I was on, picked up less than a handful of people before it turned off Broadway onto Malcolm X...

Gentrification can only be blamed but for so much..... The long story short is that the B46 has been decimated, by design, under the guise of improving service...

Disgusting.

Further proof that SBS in the outer boroughs have been a failure.  I think that the jury is still out for Manhattan.  What say you?

19 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

You are cutting it very close with 90 minutes, especially for outer borough residents. There are many living in Eastern Queens or Southern Brooklyn, who would run the risk of having their transfer expire before they reach the subway.

Even worse is coming back from Manhattan, you have a delay on the  and now you can kiss your transfer goodbye at Jamaica.

The current 2 hour 18 minute (officially 2 hours) transfer rule I think is fair enough and shouldn't be modified.

 

On Staten Island, the ferry alone takes 25 minutes (on a good day). The margin of error is very small. Miss the ferry? Train Delay? Bus Delay? Waiting extra long for the bus? You may need to pay a second fare

 

Not related but on a side note, NYC Ferry have a St George-Midtown fast ferry route now. 30 minutes from St George to Midtown is incredible!

Then, two hours it is.

9 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I don’t believe the MTA would lose money on this concept. Around 85 percent of the riders have their trips separated by about five hours, so we are talking about a small percentage of riders....

In the MTA's view 15 percent is significant enough not to change it.

I think that the time limit should be 2 hours if the first bus is an express bus.  Otherwise, it should be 90 minutes.

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

This isn't some uncontested, unmitigated fact like you want to convey like it is.... Just say you believe more would benefit from the changes & be done with it.

I admit that the bolded sentence was poorly worded.  Unfortunately, it's too late to edit the post.

I agree with BrooklynBus.  There is a big difference between the number of times that a bus stops along a route and the number of bus stops along a route.  Bus Stop Spacing is a mindless implementation of standard practices by the MTA and NYCDOT without the consideration of the effects of their actions.  They cannot be trusted.

NO FORMULAS.

I was at the Bronx public hearing in February 2020.

I heard people come to the podium to talk about what was wrong with the current local service route structure in central Bronx.  They then defended the status quo.

This was speech in the absence of thought.  I wanted to vomit.

Yes.  There would be losers in central Bronx.  But more would benefit from the changes.

All that has to be done is to give three-legged transfers to all Bx18 and M125 riders.

On 12/28/2020 at 2:13 PM, Mtatransit said:

...Their guidelines are used to cut service, that all there is to it.

There have been times when the Guidelines Manual was used in order to increase service, but these are few and far between.

The most recent examples were for the Bx16 Weekday, Saturday and Sunday services.

But, I do think that they are used MOSTLY to cut service.

As I had stated above, I have ideas that would make the Guidelines more equitable, i.e. to proactively compete with rideshare services and the automobile.   But that's wishful thinking, and for a different thread.

True.  That's why the MTA avoids calling them "standards".

All of us know that the MTA will use the Guidelines in order to justify their actions.

I have ideas that would make them more equitable, i.e. to proactively compete with the ridesharing services and the automobile.

But that's, of course, for a different thread.

Come to think of it, changes maybe as early as next month.  We shall know soon enough.

That means another round of public hearings for the specific service "changes" that will occur, maybe in June 2021 or September 2021.

Note that the "changes" can't wait for the Bus Service Redesigns, except for the Bronx.

But that's for another thread.

On 12/19/2020 at 7:03 AM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

MA has done that in the past and gotten cries of, "You have no right to take away our service just because we're not using it. That's illegal discrimination."

The MTA always uses their Bus Service Guidelines Manual as the shield.  I was able to obtain the manual from the MTA website about five years ago via a now-broken link.  I have distributed them to the public at public hearings (not happening due to COVID-19), because we deserve to be armed with the facts.  I then let the public make their own conclusions.