Jump to content

Union Tpke

Veteran Member
  • Posts

    8,102
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    36

Posts posted by Union Tpke

  1. 18 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

     

    They talk about improving interborough connections. There is real demand to travel between Rockaway and Sheepshead Bay. Yet they are not proposing a bus via the Belt Parkway to connect Sheepshead Bay Station to Rockaway. A 20 minute trip by car should not take two hours by bus. So why can't we have this route? 

    @Around the HornWhat do you think?

  2. On 3/30/2022 at 9:47 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

    That Q1-Q6 combo seems like they just wanted to free up as many buses from terminating in Downtown Jamaica as possible. I think the proposed QT18 would've worked out better operationally (in terms of avoiding the heart of Downtown Jamaica), but the tradeoff of course is that people would've had to transfer at Jamaica Avenue.

    Exactly. It is a smart move to reduce congestion.

    I like the Q4 extension to Elmont, and the Q5 extension down to X63 territory. Gives people the option of catching the LIRR at Rosedale (especially with the Atlantic Ticket and expanded CityTicket).

    The Q7 extension to the (J) makes sense (With Crescent Street, I think the issue is that it's harder to find a suitable turnaround and layover location, so Eldert Lane is the next best alternative).

    I suppose a Q8 extension to Livonia Avenue makes sense to connect those areas of Central Brooklyn with Jamaica. (I doubt the B6 & B15 will remain in their current forms after the Brooklyn redesign, but whatever bus connections are available after the redesign is implemented might be useful)

    I definitely think the proposed QT47 via Lakewood Avenue & 130th Street was a better route than the present-day Q9. More centralized within the neighborhood, and down a more suitable street (130th Street is wider than Lincoln Street, and the Van Wyck Expressway divides the neighborhood in that area). Especially considering that it's being extended down 130th Street on the southern end anyway. If they're worried about reliability of service along Liberty Avenue, they can just add some "Q57" short-turns between Jamaica & Lefferts Blvd and call it a day.

    Why do you think they changed it?

    Likewise, I think the QT46 was a better route than the present-day Q40. The proposed Q40 is going to be bypassing all of the stops along Lakewood Avenue anyway (except for 142nd/143rd Street). 

    The Q10, I don't think it needs to be combined with the Q64, but as mentioned, there's a little bit of logic to the combination.

    It will be weird that the westbound stop will be east of Union Tpke at 80th Road, while the eastbound stop will be at 78th/Union. It makes sense, given that there is no space at the south side of 80th Road/Kew Gardens Road, but it will be weird. This would significantly change the balance of users at the subway station. The 78th Avenue mezzanine/end will become packed. I wonder if some people will board the Q10 heading south at Forest Hills to get a better chance of getting the seat.

    The Q11, should still be tied in with Woodhaven Blvd. I think leaving it as a standalone shuttle (especially at those frequencies) will just have people staying on the (A) train all the way to Howard Beach.

    Wouldn't that have been duplicative?

    I think they still should've branched the Q12 and had some buses run along Marathon Parkway.

    Why not revert to the original draft proposal given that the N20G already serves areas on the City  Line?

    For the Q13, I think the QT51 routing (basically, a Crocheron/35th Avenue route) was fine. It just needed to run full-time.

    Why do you think that route is superior?

    Q14 is good.

    The Q16/61/62 split doesn't make any sense. I think the original plan for the QT85 (basically, a Q16/Q28 combination) was a good idea. And then just run the QT48/49 (proposed Q61/62) full-time.

    What are they even thinking with the Q16/61/62? What frequency would you have these routes run at?

    Q17 is generally good, but I'd run it along 132nd Street instead of 127th Street between 14th Avenue and 20th Avenue, to maintain the direct connection from Flushing to the College Point Shopping Center, and also keep the Q17 along a wider street.

    Q18 streamlining in Maspeth makes sense.

    Nice to see the Q19 get a span extension, but it's a shame it will come at the expense of a slower route from Corona to Flushing. I suppose it's to allow the Q23 to remain on 108th Street and not have to deviate to serve the (7) at 111th Street (with the Q19 from the north and the Q58 from the south, a good chunk of the Q23 riders are covered, and the rest can either walk from Roosevelt & 108th, or make their way to the Q14).

    For the Q20, I think the Q62 could be rerouted to Beechurst, and allow the Q20 to terminate by the Cross Island Parkway. (Beechurst would get less frequent service, but it would more evenly distribute the ridership across those routes).

    The Q21 reroute on the southern end is a good idea. On the northern end, I guess that's their way of somewhat maintaining the connection from Glendale to the (7) train for former Q29 riders.

    The Q22 truncation on the western end was a long time coming, unfortunately. I'm disappointed they didn't create a route for Bayswater (e.g. Combining the Mott Avenue portion of the old Q22A with the Beach 9th Street portion of the present-day Q113/114).

    The Q23/Q46 short-turn combination is odd, but I suppose there is something else to consider with that and the Q10/Q64 combination: Namely that the eastern end gets access to the Queens Blvd local (for example, for access to Queens Center Mall).

    Q24 truncation to Broadway Junction makes lots of sense. B53 on the other hand...especially linked to the B32 of all routes...and the removal from Jamaica Hospital...I don't see what the Q42 has to do with it (other than the fact that 24 and 42 are transposed numbers...I really hope they weren't using that as a reason somehow). Just tell people that their alternative involves the Q54/55/56 or a backtrack on the (E) train and call it a day.

    The B53 is a waste, duplicating the J/Z.

    I get that it's right by the College Point Depot, but they could've at least made an effort to have the Q25 serve at least a little bit of the residential section of College Point instead of ending it in the middle of nowhere.

    I'm surprised the Q26 & Q27 are both basically going to match the present-day Q27 frequencies. I thought for sure one would see a cut, but in any case good for those riders I suppose...

    Also a bit surprised they're having both the Q31 & Q76 run from Jamaica to College Point. I would assume at some point, they would start truncating some Q31s to only operate from Northern Blvd to Jamaica.

    No comments for the Q32/33/35/37 changes. 

    Glad they kept the eastern portion of the present-day Q38. The Juniper Blvd South routing should speed buses up a little bit through the area.

    I was a bit taken aback by the extension of the Q39 on the northern/western end, but I suppose if it's truncated on the southern/eastern end, it shouldn't have too much of an impact on reliability. 

    For the Q42, I think they should've just gone with a simple Brinkerhoff Avenue shuttle connecting to the Jamaica LIRR station. The Liberty Avenue portion is already covered by the Q65 & Q83, and as mentioned, the extension to Jamaica Hospital has absolutely nothing to do with the Q24.

    Q43 extension to LIJ Hospital is good.

    Q44 extension to Fordham Plaza is good.

    Q45 is a good route, but it should run full-time (even if it means taking a bit of service from the Q1 and Q43). Would also provide some weekend service to Glen Oaks.

    Q47 reroute to Woodside Avenue is pretty smart...provides some coverage over there and avoids traffic on Roosevelt Avenue, while also being a bit closer to Elmhurst Hospital. I don't think it needs to do the loop by Bulova, though.

    Q49 getting 24/7 service is good. Don't really see a point in the extension east along Astoria Blvd, though. If anything, it should probably get cut back to 92nd Street, and use those resources to add a few trips to the Q19.

    Nice to see the Q50 get 24/7 service. It would be nice if the rush hour service to Co-Op City ran like the BxM7 rather than making a full loop.

    Nice to see they added some stops along Linden Blvd for the Q51. The route map shows it ending at Springfield Blvd, but the list of stops and the Remix map show it running to the present-day Q4 terminal.

    Don't really see a point to the Q52 extension to Jackson Heights. If anything, considering the Q21 is also being extended, it makes sense to keep a reliable route starting at Hoffman Drive.

    Q55 extension to Jamaica is good.

    Q57...I'm warming up to the idea...provides a connection from eastern Queens to the (A) , though the vast majority of turnover will likely happen in Jamaica.

    Q58/98: Definitely a good idea (and as a bonus, provides service on a small stretch of 111th Street, which is also near the busier section of the park, with the museum, zoo, and Hall of Science).

    Q59 change in Brooklyn is definitely a good one.

    I'd run the Q63 along 36th Avenue instead of 35th Avenue. I'd probably have it split Roosevelt Island with the Q104 (have one route cover the southern part and the other route cover the northern part). It's the only route from 21st Street to QBP, but most of those connections are available at Court Square anyway.

    I don't think the Q83 is that slow along Liberty Avenue that it needs a full-time limited, but I guess that's also their way of maintaining the connection to the (F) train.

    The Q66 should definitely have some short-turns at Northern Blvd & Broadway.

    I still think the Q67 should run down Hunterspoint Avenue instead of Borden Avenue. I also think it should be truncated to end at Court Square.

    What do you think about the loss of the direct Sunnyside-Ridgewood connection?

    Q68 is a good route.

    I don't think it's necessary for the B62 to run to Astoria, but if it's doing so anyway, then I suppose the Q69 being turned into a rush route makes sense.

    Wish the Q73 didn't have to run along Austin Street.

    They could just move it to QBL-yes, it would be a longer walk, but people would save time-the Q23 crawls.

    Q75 is a good idea. I suppose the different sections of Oakland Gardens trade a Jamaica route for a Flushing route, compared to the previous proposal (QT31 & QT33).

    Q78 is a good idea. I'd extend it a little bit to Boundary Road to provide a connection to the Q7.

    Q80 & Q82 are a good idea.

    I'm surprised the Q85 will provide 24/7 service to Green Acres Mall, but good for any residents of that part of Valley Stream that use it, I suppose. (Though I assume the vast majority of riders at that stop are patrons of the mall itself)

    They say no frequency or span changes to the Q88, but they made it a 24/7 route...assuming that's true (which I would assume so), that's a good thing.

    Q105 is a good route.

    Q109 is an interesting route...I suppose it's another way of ensuring a reliable Jamaica-Ozone Park connection, since the Q57 is coming from eastern Queens.

    I'd add a stop by Rochdale Village on the Q111/114. Also, for the Q114, I'd run it down Beach 19th/20th Street, and have a shuttle route cover Beach 9th Street.

    I can only assume that the B57 extension beyond Broadway & Roosevelt is due to lack of layover space.

    For the express routes, I think the outbound routing should be via the Queens-Midtown Tunnel, so they don't have to take Van Dam Street and sit through that congested entrance to the LIE. Buses should do the inbound route in reverse (6th & Madison Avenue routes run down 5th Avenue, and 3rd Avenue routes run down Lexington Avenue). It'll save some unnecessary deadheading between 57th & 3rd and 6th & 36th. Maybe with the exception of the Queens Village express routes (but even then, it might not be a terrible idea...57th Street to 5th Avenue to 23rd Street to 1st Avenue, with a stop by the hospitals before getting in the tunnel). 

    For the QM1/5/6, I don't see the need for off-peak service to skip stops west of 188th Street. The QM5 could cover QM4 riders along Jewel Avenue, and the QM6 should just make stops along Union Turnpike. The simplest thing is probably just to have that pattern, and run those routes hourly, instead of every 90 minutes. The hospital stop for the Downtown routes is a good idea. For the QM3, instead of eliminating it, they could try converting it to a Downtown route with a hospital stop. 

     

  3. On 3/30/2022 at 9:20 PM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

     

    (1) Cypress Hills Street should be an issue since the (B13)will still be there.

     

    (2) I've been suggesting a "3-hour pass" for years. 

    You could have more than 1 bus route via Cypress Hills.

    Even just having unlimited transfers within 2 hours would do a lot of good.

  4. 26 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

    While I'm not a fan of the Q10 extension northward, bus priority wouldn't work on Lefferts. The route is also roughly the same in miles, so its not really a "super route", since they technically took the route south of Lefferts Blvd Airtrain, and just stuck it North. With such an extension, I can't see the Q10 remaining solely at JFK. That would be pretty wild if that actually becomes the case.

    As for the Q20, I'd rather keep it at Briarwood, the turnaround for the buses is a lot easier than Union Turnpike. It's also a decent option for those getting off the (E) and (F), as subway riders already get off of there to get the Q20 or the Q44.

    If that Q1 proposal survives the second draft(if any), I'll be really, really surprised.

    I don't disagree re:Lefferts. It is very narrow. They should take away parking, but good luck with that. There are more transfer options at Kew Gardens and the E stops there during the day. It isn't a dealbreaker though.

  5. Here are some random thoughts:

    • Some routes that will get delayed due to congestion without bus priority in the Queens Bus Redesign:
      Q50 on the Whitestone, Q68 on the Kosciuszko, Q51 on the Belt. There are others. Union Street in Flushing needs bus priority.
    • The B53 is odd and duplicative
    • The Q16/Q61/Q62 situation is a service cut.
    • It is odd that the Q60 still goes to South Jamaica.
    • The Q20 should go to Union Turnpike, not Briarwood.
    • The Q73 should be extended to Myrtle.
    • Having a Queens route to Columbus Circle would be nice.
    • The Q65 LTD seems to be eliminated, which isn't great.
    • The B62, Q59, Q66 and Q68 need to be more frequent
    • The B57 extension is great; good riddance to the section from the 2010 cuts.
    • The Bx15 or Bx41 should be extended to LaGuardia
    • The super-routes, like the Q25, Q1 and Q10 won't work without bus priority
    • Weekend service needs to be much better across the board, including on the Q23 and Q54
    • The Q25 needs to run every 6 minutes off-peak, more frequently on weekends
    • The Q39/Q67 swap ends the connection from Sunnyside to Ridgewood
    • I don't like that the Francis Lewis Blvd crosstown was eliminated
    • I love the consolidation of local and limited-stop routes
    • The Q73 needs to get off Austin Street
    • It doesn't seem great that the Q23 loses the transfer to the 7 at 111th.
    • I love the through-running routes in Jamaica/Flushing to reduce layover congestion.
    • I love the reroute of the Q47 off congested Roosevelt Avenue, and the Q53 cutback

     

    Also, this:

     

  6. On 2/1/2021 at 9:11 PM, MHV9218 said:

    Detail I noticed going through some old photos (@Union Tpke, you might be interested):

    - lower-level W4 received new Vignelli black-on-white Unimark signs as earlier as spring 1968, possibly 1967 (in time for the Chrystie changes and Grand's opening);

    - upper-level W4 received those signs by spring 1969 - rest of the 8th Ave probably around this time, but not all the way up;

    - 125-145th never received these signs, only 'halfway' signs with white modules for bullets and white-on-black otherwise by the mid-1970s.

    No new pillar signs on 8th Avenue until ~1981, when black-on-white enamel signs were installed (like 72nd and 135th had until recently). Exception for Chambers.

    And it turns out that 71st-Continental actually received Unimark Vignelli signs in 1968-1969. I had no idea any Queens stations received these signs. Looks to be a sign for the EE and GG together. Credit to the late Joe Testagrose:

     

    You really need to write up all your amazing findings.

  7. On 1/27/2021 at 5:51 PM, trainfan22 said:

    They removed the bench on the N/B platform at Union Square on the Broadway line. Personally, I pissed about this cause I use to love sitting at that bench to wait for R68/A N/Q/W trains.

     

     

    I hate when they remove benches in the system, it's more comfortable to wait for the train sitting down, especially in the summer.

    The funny thing is that they added a bench at the eastern end of Lex/53 a few years back.

  8. 11 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

    Someone in another thread brought something up about service on Lower Montauk between Jamaica and Long Island City; I do vaguely remember LIRR stops at Fresh Pond and Glendale, but this was the tail end of service in the late '90s when it was down to 2 peak-direction runs a day.  Does anyone remember when exactly they cut it down to 2 trips? I assume it must've happened before 1990-91.

    @Trainmaster5 any recollection of the Lower Montauk local trains?

    Here is this from a great website with posts about LIRR service:

    https://derekstadler.wordpress.com/portfolio-2/collections-photography/maspeth-from-small-dutch-community-to-part-of-the-great-metropolis-final/poignant-memories-of-another-day-history-of-rail-service-to-richmond-hill-and-the-former-communities-of-clarenceville-and-morris-park/

    Quote

    In May 1974 a new timetable structure was established system-wide.  One of the Long Island City-bound trains was cut on the Montauk Branch leaving only a single round-trip from and to Richmond Hill.  Westbound train number 507 from Oyster Bay stopped in Richmond Hill at 8:18 a.m. and eastbound train number 562 to Oyster Bay stopped at 5:45 p.m.  The schedule persisted for over two decades with only slight changes in time.  By 1989 the morning train originated from Patchogue (first designated as train number 41 but later renumbered 2761).  The last day of service was March 13, 1998.  Train number 2761 from Patchogue stopped at 8:21 a.m. and train number 562 to Oyster Bay stopped at 5:50 p.m.  The east end entrance was now closed.  No doubt in lieu of vandalism, both staircases were removed in the early-2000s.[57]

     

  9. 2 hours ago, Lance said:

    Damn, these are nice finds. Like MHV, I saw some of these pop up on your Flickr feed and had to investigate myself.

    Regarding the Queens Blvd signs at Briarwood and Union Tpke, I'm curious why it looks like the latter originally had three services and the former four when the number of services running to those stations was inverted at the time. Van Wyck Blvd had the E and F through 1988, which then became the R and F with the G added in 1990 as a late night service after the R was cut back to the 4th Avenue shuttle that autumn. I guess they could've covered over one of the lines with a blank at some point and then sometime after the Hillside Ave services were consolidated to only the F in Oct. 1992, the sign was cleaned up with a left-justified F. I do wonder if the G was ever on that sign though. The sign at Kew Gardens is even stranger as there was no reason to replace the original E and F that was already there as neither line was slated to discontinue serving that station.

    I think this might have to do with the fact that there was a plan to send the G and N to Jamaica Center. After that fell though, they started pasting over the signs.

    The side platform at Hoyt-Schermerhorn was used to segregate the additional fares from the Aqueduct Specials and JFK Express. This was also done at the 42nd Street L.L.

  10. Concerning signage on CPW, here is a photo from Jeremiah Cox of the subwaynut.com from 2004. I would link to his site, but he is in the process of getting stuff back up after it was hacked.

    96StltBgtltCgtK_zps122048ca

    The 2/5 sign I showed earlier reminds me of some of the signs at the deep tunnel stations (Clark Street, Fulton (Broadway/Nassau)

    16367836167_25c6feb1bf_b.jpgUntitled by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    @MHV9218In regard to the AA signage, here is an image of a pasted on sticker sign. This sign is interesting as a white on black sticker was put on to fix the E routing, but the old E bullet is still on the sign.

    16552657852_d90a7a3f63_b.jpgUntitled by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    Here are two images with the diamond CC and the K, remarkably.

    31433334852_a54cf9faff_o.pngScreen Shot 2016-12-06 at 7.41.37 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    26479683475_94ecae7f8c_o.pngNew-York-Subway-1986-Railroad-Pacific-Video-Screenshot-Port-Authority-Times-Square-NYC-Signs by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    I took this screenshot from a Youtube video, so I apologize for the low quality, but you can see that this is a mix of signs. There is the original Vignelli sign underneath. Then you have stickers pasted on it. You can also see the bullet outline kind of bullet on the sign.

    28785071774_a469e81b80_o.jpgKTrainSign_zpsdf5d6e38-2 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

     

  11. You go into ridiculously specific details about when stations got which signs, which stations still have the old signs, but are stickered or covered over, the specific materials, and more. There is plenty for you to write up if you choose to.

    It is really hard to look through all these clips since they are almost all exclusively from crimes, derailments, 12-9s, aftermaths of shootings/murders, etc.—events that would require stock footage. I even saw footage of the Intervale Avenue fire in 1989, and of the aftermath of derailments at Columbus Circle, Hunts Point Avenue, and more. 

    Here are a few more interesting ones I found.

     

    1989

    50649668661_4e62c67874_b.jpg1989 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    1991

    I have seen a few other images of comically small lettering on subway route bullets. Note the tilted B.

    50649810912_82f26a1d53_b.jpg1991 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    1987

    Note the crossover to other trains sign on the now-closed platform at Hoyt-Schermerhorn for connections to/from the JFK Express.

    50649058853_6b131ed9e2_b.jpg1987 Hoyt by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50649808791_eb114aab47_b.jpg1987 Hoyt by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    You can tell that this sign was put on top of another one.

    50649895327_a5db66ab26_b.jpg1987 Hoyt by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50649058988_0fa2edcaf5_b.jpg1987 Hoyt by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    This sign at Spring Street from 1994 is of particular interest

    I love how they creatively use a down arrow to cover the (K).

    50649117978_a90ce26ae5_b.jpgSpring St 1994 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50649117768_e9e400e187_b.jpgSpring St 1994 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

  12. Thank you so much for you analysis. You really need to write something up about the history of subway signs.

    Here are a few more interesting ones I found:

    These are from 1990:

    50648181263_a75aff968f_b.jpg1990- 103rd Street by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50649088372_57c83b822e_c.jpgNW corner of 61/CPW by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50649087992_3761649d9a_c.jpgNW corner of 61/CPW by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    You can see the C pasted over the diamond C, the spot where the K used to be, the 1/9 bullet

  13. @MHV9218@Lance I found a great website with old subway footage and found some interesting subway signs.

     

    I have never seen this sign format with a small bullet and the line name underneath before. Do you know anything about it? This is from 1990.

    https://www.historicfilms.com/search/?q="subway"#p1t48155i2435o2990

    50648518766_6501a9fe2d_c.jpgScreen Shot 2020-11-26 at 9.34.20 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50648610247_29e49101f9_c.jpgScreen Shot 2020-11-26 at 9.34.31 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50648518531_6d7bd80f5f_c.jpgScreen Shot 2020-11-26 at 9.34.42 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50647792583_a10560920a_c.jpgScreen Shot 2020-11-26 at 9.40.55 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    From the 1990s:

    50647712148_14631660b9_c.jpgScreen Shot 2020-11-26 at 9.17.25 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

     

    From 1993 (the (R) bullet is covered over)

    50648479887_3697d36b57_z.jpgSignage at Kew Gardens from July 16, 1993 stock footage by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

    50648517277_7237520723_c.jpgJuly 16, 1993 stock footage by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

     

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.