RR503

RBB commuters who want to get to lower Manhattan can take the . I was thinking something along these lines: Unchanged via bypass Beach 116 to Metropolitan avenue, via QBL local Extended to 179th street Up 2nd avenue (so you don't have to deal with the crossovers south of 42nd) or via bypass to Port Washington. I like that idea. One question is how will the cover Astoria, QBL exp and QBL local and still fit into 60th Street... Finally, to 14tph and 9th Ave. As far as convincing PWers that subway is the way to go, wave the lower fare in their face, and point out that there will be trains every few minutes. Also make sure to put very new looking cars in all the renderings.

How would tunneling under the LIRR work? That sounds like a PITA... With CBTC, how many combined tph will QBL express and the bypass have?

I couldn't agree more. However, there is something to be said for express service between, say, 137th and 96th (157th to 96th is too far). You have a center track in that stretch, and one could run locals from 137th yard to cover service losses. (I'm thinking maybe 2/3 of trains from the bx would go express..?) This would help reduce crowding and travel times.

On a slightly different thread, has the MTA ever considered extending either the or to 179th street? Then the could run on the express tracks beyond Forest Hills, and local trains wouldn't get so backed up because of fumingation.

Points taken, but the question still stands: how do QBL local riders get to 2nd Ave at all? to 51st? Then you're suffering through local stops, as you say. 3 legs? Bostonian problem. / to the to the ? With this, you're really inconveniencing east side riders. In my version, there are connections of sorts to everywhere. I see the circularity here. It's really a pick your poison problem. I honestly don't know anymore. Someone in another thread brought up the idea of making the a QBL local. Thoughts?

Yes, but the QBL 6th Ave is a local. I doubt that many -- if any -- people will choose when the is an option. It also helps by taking the load of Manhattan bound commuters off of the and onto the . In response to your other post, point taken about merging. But as for those who are going to 6th Ave, of course they'll choose the bypass. Why sit through a bunch of QBL local stops when you don't have to. And by definition, both proposals will relieve crowding at Jackson heights.

I like the RBB idea. It solves fumingation at 71st ave also, which is a BIG + Both to you and to pringle505, I don't like via bypass, because of a lack of connections in Manhattan. You want to make the fast service useful for the greatest # of people. should use it, with the becoming QBL normal express, and all other routes staying the same. And also, what is the need for the on QBL. It makes no sense.

Sometimes I feel that people here make up schemes JUST to ressurect the train. I agree about the bypass and the tail tracks. Changes need to be made. However, creating a new 6th ave route is ridiculous. Get the new capacity from 2nd ave when phase 3 is finished. Also, Jamaica Center can't turn that many trains.

IMH(and biased)O, my proposal is a lot simpler and easier than CenSin's. No city hall mess, and simpler service patterns.

Hmmm. Could you get rid of the at night (and maybe on weekends too) and run the Astoria-CI local? Then you have 96th-CI exp (via Brighton) 71st - 95th lcl Ditmars-CI lcl (via Sea Beach) (maybe via bridge nights/weekends?)

My problem is that the way you've set things up, QBL riders don't get easy 2nd avenue access, and QB bypass ones don't get good rest-of-manhattan access. Switch the and and you patch some of that up. In response to your points: QBL bypass will stop at 61-woodside, allowing riders service. riders wanting 6th avenue can...stay on the . riders can either transfer to the or just stay on into Manhattan, as the is never *too* far from the 6th avenue lines. I see your point though. I will ruminate.

Becuase why? Explain the need. Also, the would presumably be a local, giving West End riders longer rides to Manhattan. This is to say nothing of the tortured journey of trains using the Montague Street tubes through Downtown Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan.

This has been said before. Whitehall can't turn nearly enough trains to allow the to replace the . You'd have to change the (W)'s terminal.

That makes no sense. People using the bypass want connections too, which is why I think it would be much better to put 1 good connection train on the bypass (the ), one on the main QBL line (the ), and 2nd avenue trains (with eh connections/destinations) on the main QBL. Bypass passengers wanting to go to normal midtown stay on the or transfer to the at 63rd, and those wanting to go to Midtown East transfer to the at 21-Queensbridge or Roosevelt Island. Then you aren't screwing passengers on the (supposedly) faster line with mediocre destinations/transfers. Make sense?

Agreed, but I say turquoise gets QBL Express, and runs via bypass. That way you aren't making the fastest trip the one with the worst connections. (Basically what I said above)

Just extend the regular ...

If QBL bypass happens, 2nd Ave shouldn't get to use it. Reroute the or there, because connections from those lines are *so* much better than from 2nd Ave. The can use the freed up express slots on normal QBL

I live in Carroll Gardens, and I wouldn't mind express at all... I go south a lot, and getting a quicker ride would be great. I wonder if they could get it to work nicely enough to synchronize arrivals at 7th avenue.

What ever happened to express? Politics kill it? Or are they waiting for the culver rehab to finish... Honestly, if they can (assuming they rebuild Kings Highway Interlocking and buy a few extra 211s), they should just run 2/3 of trains express in the peak direction as far as KH, and extend the with 10 cars there to add service at local stops. Then rebuild Bergen's lower level, and short turn whatever (F)s can't fit in CI at Avenue X (or even better, rebuild the crossovers at CI so all service can go there). The only hitch I see is the crossings that will have to take place at Kings Highway...

I hope stays local. Lets people at all the bklyn lcl stops have a 1 seat ride to Western Manhattan. The only forseeable problem would be the merge at Hoyt Schermerhorn. Anyway, this is m a n y years down the road.

They definitely have spare rolling stock on weekends (which is what VG8 originally was talking about). And yes, 7 is tops.

The last MNR president wanted that, but then the safety crisis happened. Have they tried longer trains? Or are all already maxed out? Also remember that service isn't free. Weekends = overtime, and with generally fewer people traveling, less farebox recovery. Maybe not every 20 minutes, but bi-hourly service would be great. Anyway, y'all should be appreciative that you aren't dealing with LIRR's weekend 'service.'

I can confirm that they are C1s. The Naugatuck RR (a tourist op) purchased them for their services a while back. I guess they never got around to using them...

I think that just moving the or would be *much* easier. No need to stir the pot if nothing is wrong. Also running the as the only local for 2 stops on QB during nights/weekends seems like a recipe for angry riders. At least make it 8 (or 10 60').

.....But it listed and trains at Court Square, neither of which were running. Oh well... When were the last subway cars with the blue stripe scheme retired/rebuilt/repainted? TIA