R32 3838

Pitkin cars are just dirty, That doesn't mean they are in bad shape. The R211s allow them to see more shop time while CI don't have that much since they need spares in which they are getting now. Overall, The pitkin ones are better maintained and were only terrible when they retired the R32s and had their spare factor reduced.

On 3/26/2024 at 10:42 AM, Ale188 said:

That's the entire site for you. Literally, 'Are any 46s retired yet?' 'What 46s are transferred?' 'Why didn't they start retiring them?'

I wish I could hop on a 46 again. My first ride was smooth as shit and I loved it (besides a dude talking about how their mom got chopped up when he was 6).

I also wish I could see it with its replacement side-by-side, but that might be planned much sooner than I anticipated, and I might not see it by the time I move to the city.

This is nothing new, They do this when anything old. They did this with the R32s, Now with the R46s and then in the future it's going to be with the R68s.

21 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

It was such a small order of 179’s, they should’ve replaced all the R32’s 46’s all at once from the , maybe a few 46’s can be sent over to other lines, during the CBTC car equipment switch, it would’ve been worth it, today the 211’s would’ve been running on the  or  

Nah If that were the case, Jamaica or concourse would have gotten them before the and . The R211s on the and makes sense anyway esp the due to the bigger doors. The doesn't need R211s. It got the R160s brand new and is possibly getting them back ( when CI gets techs for the ) Anyway. They want these cars on lines that have or going to get CBTC. The Only broadway lines the R211s would make sense to be on is the and the .

1 hour ago, zacster said:

How many more R68s will go back to Concourse?  There will be plenty of R46s to replace them.

It depends, Probably 24 more cars or more to increase the spare factor.

3 hours ago, JSLR7 said:

Why would there be less TPH on the  /  ? Do the switches south of 5th/53rd have a lower capacity than the switches south of 36th St in Queens?

When they made the go via 63rd, It allowed them to add more and service. This is why you had the 4-5 trains out of 179th. They couldn't do this when both lines went via 53rd and back then the was all R32s while the was all R46s creating dwell times at lex and 53rd. Now with the and being all 60 tech trains, It could be possible with improvements with CBTC but as of right now it's best for them to leave as it is until they can fix the CBTC glitches.

4 hours ago, Calvin said:

* R142 Jerome Av count is at 19 10-car trains with a 5-car spare (Total included for the R142A = 41 10-car trains. 1201-1205 are retired and used as a parts unit.  

* R211 count (Pitkin Yard overall): 4040-4059 -> 2 gangway trains for the  , 4060-4204 -> 145 cars (14 trains) overall for the . However, 4080-4089 are out of service.  

I wouldn't jump the gun on that, They might be stripped some parts while awaiting new parts so i wouldn't list it as retired.

21 minutes ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

Riders are going to complain about the lack of weekend service on the 63rd St Line and I doubt the  wants to put money to have the  be extended and run full-length trains again on weekends.

The could run to 21st queens bridge on nights and weekends meaning the is 24/7 in Manhattan. But the only drawback is less TPH on the / . The Drawback of the going via 53rd is the merge at Queens Plaza. Both have pros and Cons.

I told people this was going to happen as CI and concourse need spares before retirement starts.

4 hours ago, Comrade96 said:

Wouldnt there be a surplus of 4 car sets of 160s, If the  gets all the 4 car 179s from the  when it goes 100% full length?

They are going to need those extra cars since TA wants to add more service on the . This is why they are building or have built new substations on the carnarsie line to add capacity

1 hour ago, BelieveinMe said:

No.this is incorrect.

The 179s were Originally the 3rd option order for R160s, until the funding was pulled by the Hatchet Man the MTA hired to make the draconic cuts agency wide.

However, the majority of his cuts only affected the NYCT, subway and bus system, and certain neighborhoods the routes served.

This was pretty much confirmed with some restoration of the eliminated services, and the sudden "retirement" of that MTA chairman after the deed was delivered.

The R179 was the direct response to cuts, matching car for car the intended retirement of the Remaining R units intended to be replaced by the 160s.

The FTA threw it monkey wrench into the works, by ordering the 44s into retirement because of structural defects.

In any case, the 179s were Not intended for the Q line,(assumed because of the Second Avenue Subway opening).

The cars Were now intended for 8th avenue service, replacing all R32s that remained there.

The R32s were moved to the J and Z line, with some still in A service.

The C was given the majority of the J line's 160 fleet.

So because of circumstances, the 179s were given to the Eastern Division, and the 8th Avenue line simply because they ran the oldest cars in the system at the time.

 

No The R179s were intended to always be a separate order to replace R44s in which they did 7 years after the latter half that didn't get retired by the R160s. The supposed 3rd Option order of R160s Was to pretty much wipe out the remaining R44's and the R42s While The R179's Would have just been R32 replacements instead of R44 replacements. They Didn't want to pay out of pocket for More R160s since they needed like 300 More cars in order to replace the remaining R44 and R42 fleets. The going to 6th ave helped them deal with the shortage as more R46s that were on the along the 2 sets of R32s (these were swapped a month prior) went to the . CI also gained back their R160 sets as well as The lowest R160B Jamaica had was 9123. Those R160s replaced that 1 R32 set that was on the .

Mods Please merge post with my previous one.

23 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

the original plan did not have the getting any of the R179s; they were originally only for the (later changed to ) and and then the plans changed after the original train shutdown was suspended

The R179's were never intended for the . The Majority of the R179's were always planned for the and . The 40 10 car units were for addtional service to push out cars to the . CI was never getting a oddball fleet of 40 R179 cars. The Plan was the get the 40 cars, The get the majority of the 8 car sets and the and get a small chunk. That all changed when they decided to give the the R179s first instead of the with ENY/207th splitting the 8 car units and them adding 16 more B cars to the last 18 4 car units that were turned into 18 5 car units.

The only thing I see moving out of pitkin first are some R46s to coney to increase their spares.

16 hours ago, zacster said:

I doubt many members live on the UES.  That's a pretty pricey place to live.  I go through there from time to time but that doesn't make me an expert.

But some development did occur in anticipation of the 2nd Ave Subway finally opening.  And I'm sure more development is happening between 96th and 125th in anticipation of the extension.  I've seen the Q train though going up that way in the PM rush and it was crowded but not packed.  The bigger crowd?  Going downtown from 72nd St from all the hospitals.  They used to have to either walk or bus to 68th/Lex and this is an easier walk to 70th/2nd where the entrance is.  I've done it as a patient before the Q train and it was a PITA.  Luckily I was and am fully mobile because the bus was packed too.

The in that section Between 57th st and 96th st carries, I can imagine when it goes to 125th. I just wish we had phase III already. It sucks having no subway on 2nd ave south of 63rd st.

On 3/5/2024 at 12:28 PM, E M said:

Any updates on the Alstom R160A-2 with the Zoho One wrap on car no. 9348, which had the broken headlight? It was running on the  Train when it had the broken headlight on Friday, March 1st, 2024. Do you guys know which line that set is running at right now? And, does it still have the broken headlight or did the maintenance crew at Jamaica/Coney Island Yard fixed and replaced the headlight?

 

I saw it on the yesterday, They probably fixed by now since that's an easy fix.

8 hours ago, Jemorie said:

Neither the  nor the  need R211s either… 🙄

The has very high ridership and it's jammed packed in Manhattan and the Bronx. And i said to an extent the , The doesn't need to be 100% R211 but the does get heavy ridership between Manhattan and Queens and a decent chunk between Manhattan and Brooklyn.

The Should get the R211s next, The last order of new cars it got was the R68As in 1988-1989. And it would make sense because of the upcoming CBTC on 8th ave and 6th ave.

4 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

The  is gonna need them once the 8th Ave CBTC is done. That’s why 1,070 cars are ordered.

That really doesn't mean they could automatically get R211s, Concourse could get the R160s from Jamaica as well. Those CBTC equipped R160s gotta work on other CBTC lines besides Queens Blvd. But Concourse should get the R211s. Let the get R160s instead.

2 minutes ago, shiznit1987 said:

For what it's worth, QB service has *never* been this smooth with both the  and  running along 53rd st. i am going to miss this GO badly...

I'm not, The Lack of the train really sucks with the being very terrible. But the and via 53rd isn't bad but the only downside is that it causes a reduction of service as it uses 22 trains vs 26 and the slightly got reduced as well as it lost like 2-4 sets.

1 hour ago, zacster said:

I doubt they'll wait that long.  Why keep an entire fleet of cars when they are no longer needed?  Consider that in light of how they've been retiring cars even before their replacements are ordered.  The only reason to keep them would be if their disposal costs are greater than keeping them, and even then eventually they have to be disposed.  Pay me now or pay me later.

As I've said in the R46 retirement thread many times, they managed to keep up service even without the 11 R32 trains that were retired early.  With the R211s being a lot more reliable, assuming no more disasters, they won't need as many spares either.

You are completely missing the point. Because they retired the R32's, The R46's took a hit on reliability esp at Coney Island. The pitkin ones improved slightly because they have a good spare factor with the R211s now. They were not fine, what helped them was the fact they had a crew shortage and in 2020-2021 the and lines were cut by 50% until the union fought to have their full services return this was also why they didn't need the R32s and at that time they were just in storage. Concourse lost spares between 2016-2018 32 cars in total i think to Coney Island when they brought back the and the going to 2nd ave, Jamaica lost  3-4 sets of R160's and gained 5823-5877 before the R46/160 swap due to the R179's pushing those R46's out. The R32's would have pushed out the other group of R46s to CI had they stayed. They have to make sure they have a good spare factor before they retire R46's. They are still removing R32s off property. Once that's done, They will start to store R46s when the time comes.

Congestion pricing also plays a role on how they will do things. It isn't smart to start completely retiring R46's until they know they have enough fleet to meet up with the demand. They can STORE R46s and sideline them until there are more than enough R211s to start completely retiring the R46 fleet.

This is why i said Congestion pricing should start in 2026 instead of now. The more it's pushed back, the better.

On 2/17/2024 at 7:12 PM, zacster said:

It would not make sense to put them on a line that won't be getting CBTC.  But since when does the MTA make any sense?  As I said, it is a POSSIBILITY, but unlikely for the reason I gave.

It isn't like they've never changed direction.

Those 11 sets of R32s were supposed to be the spares, or to allow R46s to be spares or serviced.  They made do without them so how can you say they wouldn't have been enough?  Zero R32s turned out to be enough.

 I mean after the R32's retired, The R46s took a nose dive and they still run like garbage and CI has mixed R68/R68A's to make service when they never mixed them before. It's not as great as people make it. The R211s are helping now with the pitkin R46s while CI still has issues with their fleet.

20 hours ago, Metro CSW said:

Nah, f**k CBTC. The realistic reason for Broadway Line to be considered for the R211 is to accommodate for the Second Avenue Subway. Lets try not overlook that fact.

Nah Screw them people. they got new shit for years, The R211s are designed for lines like the and lines. Broadway doesn't carry as much as those 4 lines. Coney Island really don't need R211s at all. When the gets techs, The R160's would be a better fit. It'll be a waste to put the R211s on lines like the and while lines like the , even the to an extent need the R211s more than those lines. The wider doors are better for lines with the highest ridership. This is why they Kept the all R142/R142A's instead og giving them the R62A's, It was because of the Larger doors and the reduction of Dwell times. The Dwell time increased on the when the R142A's left the line. I do thin Jamaica would get a large chunk of these to balance out the fleet. Those Siemens would be the first to go.

10 hours ago, zacster said:

And when they opened the 2nd Ave Subway they made sure the newest trains were running there.  If Cuomo were still Gov. my guess is they wouldn't have been allowed to swap them for the oldest cars.  He would've had a fit that his pride and joy wasn't being treated right.  

By the time the extension is opened to 125th St, no matter where it ends up there, the R68s will also be gone.

They had no choice but to swap the cars, They are not going to delay running CBTC in Queens to make upper east side people happy. My only gripe was them putting the majority of the R46 fleet on the   instead of the .

7 hours ago, Metro CSW said:

Nope. Just the R46s + expansions. The 32s were gone before the pilot came into service.

The first 8-11 sets of R211's are the de facto replacements of the remaining R32's that were retired already. It seems a lot of you guys don't remember the R44 retirement. The R160's didn't replace all of the R44's. Only Half of them. The R179s are the De Facto replacements of the remaining R44 (that were gone 6 years before) ,R42's and 50% of the R32 fleet. The R211's with option I is pretty much replacing the remaining R32s that were retired before the R211s arrived and all of the R46s. If they increase the length of the (100%) and the then Option II would only replace the remaining R46's with 80% of that order being for fleet expansion.

The R143s are the de facto replacement of the GE R30's after being retired just 7 years prior.

I don't know why you guys keep thinking the R211s are only R46 replacements when we still have a car shortage that has been going for the past 5 years. 

On 2/16/2024 at 9:26 AM, zacster said:

The 11 R32 trains were supposed to be the spare factor for both CI and Pitkin.  When those are replaced with R211s, there should already be enough to move to CI if needed.  And if they were needed at this point they probably would have been moved already, so my guess is they weren't really needed.  This gets to why they retired the 11 R32 trains in the first place.  Those 11 trains are "nice to have" but aren't truly needed.  Things that are "nice to have" still cost money.  Even when the R211s were pulled from service they had enough cars, just barely.

honestly 11 sets of R32's wouldn't have been enough tbh and out of those 11 sets, they would have ran only 7 to 8 sets. The R46 fleet runs like garbage due to the low amount of spares right now. The B divsion fleet in general is taking a nose dive. The Jamaica R160s run like they are 35 years old and starting to ride like garbage because the air suspension is shot. 

This is why i don't think it's a good idea to start retiring the R46's in Mass, The only exception is if a set is completely shot. Then you have to factor in congestion pricing (which is delayed. The more it's delayed, The better)

The R211 with all options taken would eliminate this issue. They ordered enough R211s Both Base and Option I to completely wipe out the R46s and fill the void left by the R32's. Option II would just expand the fleet.

You guys are forgetting that Coney still need more spares, CIY doesn't have Techs anymore so the spare factor needs to increase. They are not going to outright start retiring R46's (unless they have a major malfunction) when they have to increase the spares first. When the R32's were starting to get taken OOS between late 2019 and early 2020, CIY still had tech trains (around this time the CI/Jamaica Swap was starting to happen). It wasn't until 2021 or 2022 when the the remaining R160s were moved to Jamaica along with the .

Honestly the R179s (the 10 car units) need to stay on the . They actually fit the line as for the 8 car units they can go to ENY for expansion of service like an extension to south Brooklyn and etc.

As for the R46's time will tell but the A-A units will be the first to go, They were the first to be stored before the R211 issues started. If it were up to me i would send at least 4-6 cars to CIY for the Franklin ave as spares if the R68s need work or something (I know this won't happen lmao)

it's going to be more faster since they are behind schedule and they are a decent chunk of cars that are fully built and were ready to go but the delivery was halted until the gearbox issue was fixed. 

As for the R46's I would expect to start seeing retirements in the late summer - early fall by then there should be enough R211s to start pushing out cars to storage,retirement and transfers to CIY to kill off any of their bad cars and to increase spare factor.

Also it's rumored that the ALL the R179s might move too including the 10 car units.

57 minutes ago, TyBusLover1 said:

So will they get more spares from concourse yard?

No Concourse would get their spares back that they lost

31 minutes ago, zacster said:

What I'm thinking is that the 11 R32 trains were the spares for both CI and Pitkin,  and with the R211s they have now they've been replaced, and that CI should have gotten some already.  As far as I know though they haven't transferred anything yet.  If a bunch of trains started to crap out from CI I'm sure the call would go out to bring some over since they don't need them at Pitkin.

I don't think they would get any spares from Concourse.  If anything, they'd return some R68s to Concourse when they get more R46s.  I guess that would mean even fewer R68s on the N/Q/W. 

The Original plan was to move some R46s from pitkin to CI as the remaining R179s went into service to increase their spares while the R32's stayed on the and . 5-7 sets of R32s were planned to run in and service until the R211s show up and replace those remaining R32s.  The would have been 35% to 50% 60 footers and 50% 75 footers with a decent spare factor. The would have ran the rest of the R32s with the R179s. This is why they were planned to keep 110 R32s until they decided to retire them in late 2019.

Concourse would gain their spares back not lose anymore cars. They lost about 32-40 R68's between 2016-2019. That's why it would be smart to give CIY some more R46 cars to fil in the gaps this way Pitkin, CIY and Concourse yard would have a decent spare factor.

20 minutes ago, zacster said:

There are enough R211s now to replace the R32s in storage already, and those R32s were the spare factor even though they never ran again.  Maybe they'll get a few more 211s in but I think they are going to start transferring the R46 sooner rather than later.  By May/June there could be a lot more R211s and I wouldn't be surprised either if the C started getting R211As in addition to the 2 R211Ts already assigned and all of the 4 car R179s go to ENY along with the borrowed R160s.

CI needs an increase of spare factor since they lost the R160s. That's the only issue, They barely have any and their R46s take the most beatings. They only need like 6-8 more sets to  have a balanced fleet and you forget that concourse spare factor dropped when they sent up to 4+ sets to coney over the past 7 years.

4 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Yep, in this hypothetical scenario, with the remaining cars to the . 

It's not set in stone that the R211s are going to coney, Concourse for the makes sense while CI getting the R160s back makes more sense for the and lines (yes Broadway will still use techs, just a handful since the majority of the fleet would be on the ).

As for the R179s, it's up in the air but it's likely they would stay where they are.

I don't think they'll need to store or retire anything until they are sure of the R211s reliability also Coney island need cars so it would make sense to start pushing R46s to CI yard to increase their spare factor and in the future to get rid of the bad cars over there.