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Trainmaster5 last won the day on August 17

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About Trainmaster5

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    Retired Motorman

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    New York, Long Island

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  1. Maybe now some people will understand why my peers were taught that the correct question to ask was "how fast does this train stop ?" rather than the " how fast does it go ?" Some of the long time posters probably remember some of those threads going back a decade or so. I know the feeling of being tripped by a signal at the north end of 23rd Street and finally coming to a stop past the interlocking signal north of Union Square. There are many RTO folks ,including supervision, who have stopped posting regularly because of the constant obsession with speed in many threads while we were taught by knowledgeable people that safety is supposed to trump any other consideration. Knowing the truth about the signal deficiencies is exactly why many of us take issue with the premise of running more trains closer together. Without a full scale evaluation of the signal system it appears to be a recipe for disaster IMO. Thanks Union Tpke for bringing this to light. You have exposed the chasm that exists between theory and the reality . Some of the in house discussions/arguments described were known by some of us hourly folks. Carry on.
  2. Like I said we had regular folks who rode with us and, if we forgot the manual “ to Brooklyn “ part after the Bowling Green automated one they would chime in. We worked together for 13+ years and we had regular riders. If folks would pass us up the next five trains and the trains in the mix all went to Utica . Most people on Lexington knew when the last train to Brooklyn was due.Never had a complaint.
  3. Now you know how my C/R and I felt nightly when we had the first R142’s to Utica. We refused to sign them up as to Flatbush so we had Bowling Green destination signs. We had a TSS ride us one time who was critical of our procedure but we told him that we knew what we were doing. When we got to Bowling Green we made manual announcements from there to Franklin Avenue and really poured it on there. Luckily we had a great group of regular riders from the Redbird era who helped us out with those who were confused. IIRC it was a few months before the announcement problem was cleared up. We, too, wondered why it took so long to get corrected. Just my experiences. Carry on.
  4. The Transit Authority guys just want to make sure you're at home and not at Belmont Park or Atlantic City. In RTO if you had to leave the house for any reason such as a doctor's appointment or pharmacy you would call them when you were leaving, give a destination, and call them when you returned home. I saw the inspector once in 30 years. He was actually looking for my neighbor and decided to visit me first. He looked at my pass and he left. The whole time my neighbor was sneaking into his building after visiting OTB. My friend broke his leg in a motorcycle accident and he came home from Kings County Hospital and they put him in bed. I came by to check on him and a TA inspector drove up and got out of his car and followed me to the gate. He said he had to see my friend and I told him that I would bring his pass and his mother, an RN, to the gate but going into the house was a no-no. He started to protest but when Gus and Zeke, the dobermans, came out of the house he changed his tune. He couldn't understand why they didn't get excited when I went through the gate. My friend and I saw the same inspector at Nathan's at Coney Island one day and we teased him about the incident. He said that my department, RTO, and Surface, were the main targets for visits , and the visit to my friend, an RCI at the time, was not the norm. He said that many times he would go to a house and the wife or girlfriend didn't know the person wasn't at work and wasn't home either. I have heard of a doctor, TSS, team visiting RTO people late in my career. I guess it's like that anywhere you go. There's always something or someone who gives everyone a bad name. Carry on.
  5. The West Side development is problematic to a layman like me. I certainly support the idea as a former construction worker. I just don’t see what the city or the has done to provide long term infrastructure improvements for the area. The Hudson Yard extension of the Flushing line, while helpful, amounts to a minimal investment IMO. The only other thing that I can think about is the TSQ-GC shuttle rebuild. The seems to be stuck with the ESA LIRR project to the detriment of even the SAS project. Everything is geared towards the East Side and I’m pessimistic that the SAS project will ever make it to 125th St and certainly will never go south of 63rd. Perhaps the upcoming signaling improvement projects in the subways will help to some degree but, short term, I have a feeling that the Surface folks will do the heavy lifting. My opinion though. I’ve been wrong before 🤫. Carry on.
  6. Gotta remember that there were wholesale changes in the ridership dynamic between the mid eighties and 2000. Where south of East Tremont Avenue down to Simpson Street and beyond once stood abandoned apartment buildings there was a revitalization of the area with one family dwellings instead. I’d guess the midday mix of s/b ridership was evenly spread between east and west side destinations. The other factor that is historically overlooked is that, from the north WPR side, the whole thing was catered for East Side ridership. 241 St, Gun Hill Road ( Upper and Lower) , the original Dyre Shuttle, Pelham, Parkchester, Freeman St . Right or wrong the common denominator is obvious to me. The only 7th Avenue service came from the old 180th St Bronx Park station. South of Jackson Avenue there was a connection to the 149th St el station and the Bergen Bypass for Freeman St Second Avenue el service. I’d say that the IRT Bronx service was geared towards Lexington Avenue service even after the Lenox Avenue extension of the subway to the Bronx. That’s always been my take on the ridership dynamic up there. Just my opinion though because my personal family history is geared toward Brooklyn and I’ve had to talk to lifelong Bronx people to try to formulate my Bronx theory. It never hurts to converse with those who lived and worked on that end. Carry on.
  7. Question out of left field about Bus Time. When I click on the B6 route many times it doesn’t show any buses on the road. Is there a fix for this? Has anyone else had this issue? Just curious. Carry on.
  8. I saw the infighting firsthand and both my C/R and I had personal conversations about the issue with our regular riders. We also had sources in Operations and Planning so we were aware of the plans before the public was. The idea looked great on paper from the perspective but sometimes people forget whom the service is supposed to benefit. When you have politicians who control the money flow and happen to chair or sit on the appropriate committees you damn well better cater to them. Real world hardball is/was played up there. Those who fail to see the big picture lose every time. Many people forget that the was the original Dyre line when the connection to the mainline was made. Most riders abandoned ship at the East 180th Street station and transferred to the which originated at 241 St at the time. This I learned firsthand from the supervision at the East, the older generation who broke me in as a C/R, and my rabbi, who all worked up there and resided up there even before the connection was made. What many people overlooked is that the Dyre line has many people with skin in the game. It's a diverse group that I have noticed over the years. The Morris Park folks, the Pelham Parkway residential and hospital crowd, the rest of the Dyre line up to the terminal, and the Co-op and the Mount Vernon folks. Think east of White Plains Road and both sides of the northern border. These folks and those who ride the AM from 238th or Dyre want Lexington service and don't suggest overcrowding the platforms at East 180 while people make the transfer from a Dyre West side train. Surveys taken back then suggested that the ridership south of East 180th were more likely to have West Side destinations compared to the northernmost ridership. Perhaps the demographics will change and the proposed changes will be implemented but I will caution everyone that the is a political entity first and foremost. A think tank or a low level civil servant might think the plan is wonderful but anyone else involved without protection of some sort is putting their career on the line by pushing the plan on the public. Just my opinion. Carry on.
  9. I saw that somewhere, too. Personally I'd rather send the to Astoria, bring the out of mothballs and call it a day. Run those trains to Brooklyn and lay up the clean trains at 38th street yard and those needing maintenance at Coney Island. Same procedure we use for the fleet. Could it work ? Worth a shot IMO. Carry on.
  10. Perhaps you are getting your information from a completely different source so let me correct you about demand in the Bronx IRT. Rush hour demand s/b is Lexington Avenue oriented, from Dyre and 241st, 238 Nereid. That's why those 14 Lexington trains are stored up there overnights Those Lenox trains you cavalierly denigrate serve a purpose which is to prevent the s/b from becoming overcrowded when entering Manhattan. Satisfy the demand. It's not rocket science. Carry on.
  11. When I was in school car for C/R the motor instructors told us their experiences in the system in both divisions. They were surprised when I told them that I had a provisional job in the late sixties while I was a college student. I was a RR Porter, a PM extra so I was sent everywhere. Franklin shuttle crew room was behind the tower at the south end of the n/b platform at Prospect Park station. The Culver shuttle crew room was on the lower level at Ninth Avenue IIRC. The Jamaica line crew room was at the north end of 168th St station platform. Third Avenue el had crew rooms at 149th Street el station and the main one at Gun Hill Road-WPR on the lower level. When I told them that the south terminal of the Myrtle Avenue el had an outhouse on the platform almost everyone laughed but one motor instructor knew what I meant. The real bathroom was across the street at 370 Jay on the 3rd floor. I was so dedicated that I started to sweep the center platform at Chambers St BMT before I was told to stop and go for a walk by the supervision on duty. There was also a hidden crew room at the south end of the s/b IND platform at BROADWAY-ENY that you had to climb down and enter the tunnel to access. I never could figure out where the crew room was for the Polo Grounds shuttle but the Atlantic Avenue Canarsie-Fulton el station had a crew room for RTO and Signal below one of the towers there. Believe it or not but sometimes a person can remember something that happened years ago but can't remember what I was doing a week ago. Sorry for rambling on. Carry on.
  12. There used to be timers IIRC from Franklin St and around the curve approaching Chambers on 2 track. I'm not sure about today's setup. There's also an interlocking complex between Franklin and Chambers. Many a T/O took that curve at what they thought was the correct speed when Times Square tower decided to send them Ferry bound instead of toward Brooklyn. One had better be prepared to stop or at least slow to a crawl when that situation happens. Some of us were taught, back in the day, if you want to whip around curves , Houston St-Sheridan Sq, n/b and or Astor Place n/b and "maybe you'd be better off working the Cyclone at Coney Island" rather than the IRT. Supervisors, and regular riders, would make sure you didn't screw up at those locations because you'd be re-instructed on the spot by a motor instructor. or worse have to call Jay St because a customer banged you in. Our equipment was faster back then also. Just my experience. YMMV. Carry on.
  13. Thanks for the Ninth Avenue update. I don't know if you're aware that East 180th St, not Dyre, was the primary terminal for the back in the prehistoric era. Similar to the BPB setup we made a crew change at the " East" and the new crew would proceed n/b to Dyre, change ends and then head south. I do recall some IND Fulton St trains bound for the Rockaways made a similar crew change at Euclid Avenue.I'm not familiar with the towers on the 4th Avenue line but most towers I've entered aren't that spacious. You're right about operating a temporary or satellite terminal. Back then certain rules had to be ignored or flat out waived, IIRC. Thanks again. Carry on.
  14. The last time I was in that yard , 30+ years ago, it was strictly a work train yard with hand throw switches. I don't think it was set up to handle passenger cars back then. Perhaps someone out here has more recent information. BTW isn't the bus depot next to the yard ? I also think both facilities are on the north side ( Manhattan bound ) of the West End tracks so I'm not sure how that impacts using 36th St or Ninth Avenue as a terminal. Carry on.
  15. IIRC the 36th-38th yard already exists between 36th St and the Ninth Avenue stations. The West End trackage passes the yard before it reaches Ninth Avenue heading toward Coney Island. I was asking whether there was still crew quarters or remnants from the Culver Shuttle days still available at Ninth Avenue. Most terminals have offices, locker rooms, crew room, and restrooms at the location. I'm guessing that Ninth Avenue is at least two blocks away from the train yard. Carry on.

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