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Trainmaster5

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Everything posted by Trainmaster5

  1. I could see the original ROW of the NYW&B running down to a point where a connection could possibly be made to the SAS. The problem (s) are on the Bronx side of the idea, IMO. First of all today's line would have to revert back to the IND. SAS is B division equipment so the R142 cars on the would have to go elsewhere. I doubt that any part of the line needs twice as much service and equipment. The ROW of the Dyre line north of East 180th St was built for wider equipment. South of East 180th St the ROW doesn't exist any more. The stub tracks and ironwork are gone. Like the Culver Shuttle I believe the old ROW has been sold in that vicinity. I've wondered if the old ROW below Unionport Station could have been re-connected to the railroad line. That used to be the way subway equipment was swapped with the old Dyre shuttle. Of course that brings up the question of how to run subway equipment with/ alongside commuter rail. Your post brings up some things that I don't recall being discussed by the transportation folks in charge, either today or in the past. Great post. Carry on.
  2. The was created because New York State was going broke trying to keep the LIRR running. That's why the TBTA was folded into the agency. The TBTA had money because of the toll money they collected. This way the state could avoid directly funding the railroad. Get the surrounding counties onboard as well as the City of New York with it's Transit Authority. It's similar to the NY Lottery gimmick where, IIRC, it's revenue was supposed to be added to the funding for education. Instead the state's funding was slowly reduced. Meanwhile the big player, the PANY&NJ, who had toll money wanted to be a real estate company, too. Remember they had to take on the PATH system, and it's losses, in order to build the WTC. Both states agreed and lo and behold the WTC was built. If it wasn't for government departments occupying much of the office space it wasn't a moneymaker. Throw in NYC and it's near bankruptcy and exactly whom was supposed to fund the ? You answered your own question IMO. I actually don't see much of a turf war between the PA and the because their core missions are not the same although there is some overlap. Both operate bridges but the is a heavy rail commuter agency while the PA deals with the ports and airport portion. That's why I try to point out the LGA AirTrain difference compared to the JFK one. People debate the subway extension through a neighborhood but the JFK AirTrain doesn't run on a city street . It runs down the middle of a Federal Highway. The LAX situation is great in theory but I think both NY and NJ because of the bi-state covenant which would seem to preclude a deal like that. Just my opinion. No argument intended. Carry on.
  3. My experience with the Redbird fleet mirrors yours to a point. The and the actually had to swap fleets before the R142 cars were introduced. The cars were in somewhat " better " shape than the White Plains cars because they had less mileage. Think 241-Flatbush 24/7 vs Dyre- Bowling Green or Dyre-East 180th using a split consist of a 10 car R62a Pelham train as 2 shuttle trains. I happen to think the pre-GOH of the early to mid eighties were the low point of my and experience. I remember being an extra list C/R way back then and I would pray that I wouldn't pick up a job on the even if it started in Brooklyn at New Lots. Funny thing was that the ran 9 car consists of mixed equipment from Lenox to Flatbush with less problems than the in the early eighties. Every time I got turned around the Ferry it was because a had a problem. On the east side it was the pre-R62 Redbird fleet of the that couldn't climb the grade from Bowling Green to Brooklyn Bridge. Everyone had a different experience depending on if you were a passenger, C/R, or M/M- T/O back then. Carry on.
  4. That's because some posters are unfamiliar with the history and the underpinnings of mass transit in the metropolitan area. They don't understand that the PANY&NJ, Via the two states and the bondholders, are the final arbiters of what gets built in the area because money talks. I remember walking around Livonia Yard and noticing that the PA, and not the MTA, purchased the R62a cars on the line back then. Each car had a plate stamped with that information located near the undercarriage. I look at the present financial outlook of the MTA and wonder if some posters understand what the real situation is. We're getting new subway cars, a new signal system, and an additional phase of the SAS. Only if the Federal government provides most of the money. The PA PATH system is not as constrained as NYCT is. Some of my friends and older family members have seen this program before. Southern Queens, Utica Avenue are still awaiting promised relief, 50 years for Queens and 70 years for Utica. Our consensus is that CBTC gets completed, some new rolling stock is purchased on a stretched schedule and the SAS expansion is next generation, if ever. BTW, the CBTC project lets trains run closer but where is it guaranteed that more service will be provided ? That's because with flexible hours and WFH options taking hold the traditional rush hours aren't that necessary any more. Before the argument that these improvements are paid for look up the R11" fleet " history and get back to me. My people and I see history being repeated yet many posters and the press are ignoring the obvious. My thoughts. Carry on.
  5. You are correct that the PA is the operator of the airports. Same applies to the NYC subway system where the city owns it but operates it. predates the World Trade Center making the PA the interloper in that case. Your point about PATH / EWR indirectly answers the LGA situation. Carry on.
  6. Because the states of NY and NJ signed covenants giving exclusive access rights to the Port Authority back in the day. It’s considered interstate commerce IIRC. That’s what we were taught in school. I happen to agree with you but it’s a federal issue not a local thing. Carry on.
  7. Maybe someone can elaborate on the legal issues with these proposals for an old man. Isn't LGA Port Authority property ? Likewise doesn't this apply to JFK and EWR also ? I don't see the PANY&NJ allowing the or NJT to run any type of heavy duty rail onto their property. In other words it's AirTrain or nothing. Remember where the Express terminated ? Now explain to me how travelers on the Astoria Line can possibly get a " One Seat Ride " to LGA from the subway system or the LIRR. It seems to me that some of these ideas straddle the line between fantasy and outright illegality. We actually discussed this in schoolcar 40 years ago. My opinion. though. Carry on.
  8. This whole idea of a split train is, IMO, bogus from the start. Simple solution is to run the from Astoria to 95th St days and evenings with a shuttle service midnights in Brooklyn. Give the the Queens Blvd local service weekdays and be done with it. The and bracket the line through most of Manhattan anyway. We have some people and the gushing over the new connections in Midtown so why not use it ? This way I think the gets more reliable in Brooklyn and ties in with the line while the becomes a part of the Jamaica yard. Before some people start crying about this thing remember that QBL connection was only a weekday thing when the Brighton local line ran out to Forest Hills. Even when the BMT-IND combination came into being it was the that provided weekday service only. Just my opinion. Carry on.
  9. I’ve been retired for years but I’m not sure if the Car Equipment folks can be assigned to a specific location. That used to be up to a worker’s seniority. The person picked their location and tours. Has that been changed ? Carry on.
  10. Just saw an article in the Daily News that congestion pricing hearings are starting in NYC beginning today. Mods can move to another forum if it’s more appropriate.
  11. Conductors, Engineers, Train Operators, Bus Operators, are not law enforcement. Your beef is with the police. I understand your frustration but I live on the Ronkonkoma line and I also avoid it. To think that when I was a kid I thought that adults were smarter than the children. Boy was I wrong. Carry on.
  12. That’s what I was getting at. ENY was where the out of service trains were sent to and where the replacements came from. Atlantic Avenue would still have 3rd rail power in that scenario, IIRC. That shouldn’t have caused too much delay to the service between Manhattan and Broadway Junction. The lack of train crews is another problem altogether. Carry on.
  13. Honest question for you and the other posters. When you say that two trains were taken out of service where did they store them ? There might have been no passenger service south of Broadway Junction but couldn’t the out of service trains be relayed at Atlantic Avenue and sent to ENY yard and replaced that way ? Depends on where the actual work was being done IMO. Just curious. Carry on.
  14. I believe that they ran some and trains local to supplement the line.
  15. Liberty and Pennsylvania was the northern terminal back then. Even back then we residents wanted 24/7 service down towards Flatlands. The southbound B20 made a left turn on Linden Blvd headed eastbound but it also lacked 24/7 service. Missing the last southbound bus on either route left you high and dry back then. When the B83 got extended to Broadway Junction we were still at the mercy of time constraints but the workaround was to take the down to Rockaway Parkway and take the once an hour B6 to the East. The dollar cabs made a killing at Broadway Junction overnight. Just my memories. Carry on.
  16. I’m glad that someone understands what I was getting at. If I’m in an under river tunnel let me approach the next station and if there’s a switch involved let me see how it’s lined up and then we decide how to proceed. Thanks for your reply.
  17. I'm not going to get too deep into this and I'm certainly not arguing with you or anyone else about this thing. Oversimplifying my point is the easiest way to go about this thing. RCC is nothing more than a centralized location . When I was operating my train whether back in the Command Center day at 370 Jay in Brooklyn or the RCC time in Midtown I was in control of my train and I made decisions based upon the situation and what I was taught. Neither higher power could see what I personally encountered. I had a suicidal person laying across the tracks at Baychester Avenue once. Command Center nor the RCC of today's system would have known about the situation unless I advised them of it. I requested that power be removed. I negotiated with the individual and worked it out with the first police officers on the scene. I dealt with the Sargent when he arrived at the scene. When the situation was resolved and everyone was in the clear I requested that power be restored and when the console dispatcher was hesitant about the restoration the desk superintendent ordered it restored on my say so. When I spoke with the desk superintendent that evening and complained about his console dispatcher he agreed with me 100 % and said that I knew the rules but many console dispatchers were new to the job and wouldn't listen to or take any advice from a mere hourly. When you say that RCC was blind at that point I would agree with you. The problem is that Command Center was always blind to local situations and RCC can see a little bit more about signals and track circuits. I don't know how the new Train Operators are taught. Perhaps they are taught to defer rather than take the initiative. Just think about the millions spent on software and technology for the RCC but a local dispatcher and tower operator have to come to the rescue. My rant. Glad to be retired and glad that nobody was hurt. Carry on.
  18. I read the same thing. It’s my opinion that the passengers became frustrated because the lights were on, the A/C was functioning, the platforms had lights but the train crews were ordered to stop and stay where they were. I don’t understand why that order was given. Unless I missed something the signal system was working. As long as the trains had power and a working signal system stopping for no apparent reason seems to be a bad decision by the folks in charge. That’s why some people self-evacuated. My opinion. Carry on.
  19. Happened to read an article in today's online Daily News concerning the IRT and train fiasco the other night. The million dollar RCC failed which isn't news to many of us. The question I have, as another poster mentioned, is why the trains were ordered to stop where they were ? Power to the tracks and signals was available so there was no logical reason for that order to be given as far as I know. Absent any underlying problems a T/O can safely bring a consist into the next station if only a door panel is able to platform. The problem with RCC, in my opinion, is that most local supervision and towers were either eliminated outright or became subservient to the RCC. Therefore when the RCC became blinded they had to break out the old system that always worked. I told a superintendent one day that the whole concept of the RCC, with it's ATS component in the IRT, was just a long term means to reduce the workforce and bring everyone under one roof. He agreed and said " wait 'til something goes wrong and see who or what takes the blame ". He was right on the money. BTW, the writer of the article is as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to mass transit issues in the metropolitan area. reading his articles for the last couple of months shows me that he's either a mouthpiece for the agencies or he's truly unqualified. Just my opinion. YMMV. Carry on.
  20. Take a look at the subway forums sometimes. The argument there is about deinterlining vs the present service delivery idea. In other words running more trains along a particular line without realizing that they are forcing riders to transfer to another train or bus which we were taught increases a riders commute. All transfers are a delay by definition where I come from even the necessary ones. My opinion. Carry on.
  21. When I used to head home from school, (PS and JHS), sometimes I would eschew the B46-B14 route and head the other way. I'd take the B17 Remsen to Rockaway Parkway to the B60. Remember that back then the B17 terminated at the Parkway with alternate service down to Seaview. Became friendly with an old timer B/O who would talk to me about my travels. After a few months just before we'd hit the Rockaway Parkway-Glenwood terminal he would gather up an assortment of transfer and give them to me to study. The operators had a bin located at their left below the side window and slightly behind them back then. That's how I learned a lot about which lines transfers intersected with the other lines. Even when I took the other way home I'd ask the B/O for a transfer on the B46 and the B14 even though I had a free bus and train pass. The Remsen B/O told me that if I was polite and asked nicely most operators would honor my request. I don't know if you remember but the paper transfers did have a sort of time limitation on them. At the bottom of the transfer was a section that had an AM/ PM section that the B/O would tear off that would show when the transfer was issued. They would set the transfers up before letting people on at Eastern Parkway on the B14, Rockaway and Hegeman on the B35 and the B60 runs that terminated there, and Rockaway Parkway on the B17. When I moved to Flatbush in '61 Prospect Park on the Brighton became my home station so I saw the B33 buses firsthand. I believe that they were signed up with " Ferry Place" as the destination. The B65's were signed up as " Ferry Place" I think but later on I remember " Hamilton Ave" on the destination signs. Thanks for bringing back the memories. You and I go a long way back. Carry on.
  22. You youngsters sure know a lot about bus service in Brooklyn 😃.
  23. Seniors ??? 😃 You have a point there. I'm sometimes hesitant to join a conversation or reply in a thread because it seems that some bus and subway posters fail to see that cost and the overall budget are the driving force behind the and it's decisions. You really have to be an insider, or close to one , to understand the mindset of those running the agency. My take. Carry on.
  24. He stops ruining the MTA ? I personally think that is debatable. The authority may answer to the Governor but over the years I think the agency, through it's long-term staff, sets the overall agenda, and the Governor picks their own priorities, from that agenda. I go back to the beginning of the (mta) when Rockefeller put Ronan in charge. If I remember correctly neither one had any experience in the field. The professional staff under those gentlemen ran the agency then and they run it now. Most Governors got credit or blame for projects that they had no hand in creating. I believe that LGA AirTrain idea was idiotic on it's face. For that he deserves the blame but, as arrogant as he is, I bet that some " professional people " on the agency staff agreed to the plan. Since I now reside in Suffolk County, I'd guess that most people out here appreciate the double track project completed on the Ronkonkoma Branch. I believe that the same thing applies to the Mainline Third Track from Hicksville to Floral Park and the grade crossing eliminations in Nassau. The ESA project to Grand Central Station will also be a part of his legacy as will the completed portion of the SAS. Notice the pattern here ? Prince Andrew didn't propose these projects but he will get credit for them. My beef is that he allowed the downgrading of the LIRR between Jamaica and Atlantic Center, or shutdown the idea from being discussed. Another beef I have is the half-assed ESA-SAS fiasco. I blame the Prince and the authority staff here. You are going to bring these new commuters to Grand Central Station and pile them onto the Lexington Avenue line ? Meanwhile some rail fans are applauding a northern and westward connection of the SAS along 125th Street. Instead of heading south of the existing SAS to Grand Central and then south to lower Manhattan. For that reason alone I would blame the Prince and the authority professional folks. I personally have mixed feelings about his departure although his personal failings made it inevitable. Carry on.
  25. Maybe I look at the big picture differently. The system that became the BRT and then the BMT was a consolidation of different companies running services in Brooklyn. The IRT was the original subway which was consolidated with the existing elevated lines in Manhattan and the Bronx. The IND had an easier mission to create a new system without the constraints that the private had to deal with. The Depression and it's aftermath neutered the IND. It's my opinion that the private companies did a great job. My take. Carry on.

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