Trainmaster5

Your enthusiasm never fails to amaze me. I would like to point out that NYCT is shedding and dismantling what they deem as costly and unneeded infrastructure.. The Canal St. Station was the terminal for the Broadway-Brooklyn local services, BMT Eastern division trains. The BMT #14 trains from Canarsie, Eastern Parkway,or Crescent St. Trains that entered from the north. Look no further than Chambers Street or Broad Street. The same reasoning applies to all three. Trains that crossed the Manhattan Bridge and traveled south used the Nassau Loop and returned to Brooklyn via the Montague Tunnel. In my lifetime only the midday West End locals would use the Loop northbound to Chambers and then relay back south to return to Brooklyn. This eliminates your brown idea completely, IMO. Take a look around the subway system and you’ll see that infrastructure is being removed from many areas that were previously used. Upthread we talked about temporary terminals with no crew facilities such as 121 St on the . Most posters are too young to remember the infrastructure at Freeman St on the WPR line. Second Avenue trains used to terminate and relay there. In the early and mid eighties trains did the same thing when East 180 St had track work. Even if we had a blockage north or south we could use Freeman St to run around the problem. Someone above my pay grade decided that it was too costly to maintain those switches and the tower so poof and they were history. Never mind that it costs another department, Surface, to run shuttle buses from Third Avenue rather than Freeman to East 180th Street. It’s probably RTO paying Surface for the OT.This is the mentality that runs the agency. My rant. Your idea, worthy or not, would never be considered. Carry on.

You’re correct, especially about 57 St- 7 Avenue. That was the Manhattan terminal for the BMT trains pre 1967. The , the , and the when the stopped running after the pm rush hour..What I’m getting at is that the station was a terminal facility. The other stations have terminal facilities that were used in the past. Think Prospect Park or Brighton Beach vs. Franklin Avenue on the shuttle. Ninth Avenue on the old Culver shuttle because, like Franklin, there was no crew quarters at the Ditmas end. Sometimes they had to use makeshift solutions. After the 205th St. screw up that’s why you have the Parsons- Archer setup we have today. Carry on.

Look at it this way for a moment. I’m guessing that Broadway Junction was the main relief point for the crews. As you pointed out 121st was not set up for RTO employees. That was station department territory primarily and not designed for frequent use. Broadway Junction has crew rooms for signal and track personnel as well as somewhere to grab a quick bite to eat and quench one’s thirst. If you wandered down to street level and below there’s the Surface department and on the IND southbound side there’s a tower and crew quarters, too. When I started in RTO East 180 was the terminal for the and crew changes, not Dyre, which just had a rest room and an office for the ATD. Just trying to clarify what I think was going on with the crews. I could be wrong though. Carry on.

With the exception of 145th Street on the line which I’ve never noticed I can assure you that every station on every line that I’ve ever worked on in the IRT and those I’ve ever passed through in the B division has an employee rest room. Grand Central, Times Square, Utica Avenue in both divisions, as well as Church Avenue just to name a few. As a former R.R. Porter before coming back to Transit in RTO I have either cleaned or used just about every single one. Even on the demolished ones 😃. Carry on.

The same applied for Brooklyn in the mid sixties. I would have to ask BrooklynBus to confirm this but I think I’m correct. The only distinction I remember is that students from parochial schools entered high school in the ninth grade as freshmen. Like I pointed out I could be wrong. Carry on.

Actually it’s one incident concerning a crime scene and another involving the apprehension of a person who was involved.

Before I go too far on the subject of the R211 equipment and my personal feelings let me try to explain where I’m coming from. My generation of RTO folks in either division were taught that the tree started with the trackage. Nothing comes before the tracks. Next up is the third rail. Power Distribution department. With power supply and tracks connected we come to the Signal system. Signals and switches will determine the routes that are available. I’m a firm believer that CBTC is the most important thing related to train movement these days. Not NTT nor old school equipment. The safety of train movement will always depend on the signal system. Fixed block or CBTC it doesn’t matter. The problem I foresee is ATO. Does the CBTC infrastructure override the train crew ? It seems to me that the equipment manufacturers would have to have an extremely large presence in the system to ensure the safe operation of the trains. If there’s no training of the road crews to overcome problems encountered without waiting for manufacturers or RTO supervision then everything comes to a halt. Maybe some present day RTO crews can explain how they are taught these days. Don’t mind me asking because I’m definitely old school. If I have a chance to use a ticket machine or a self checkout line vs an old school cashier I pick the human every time. I’m guaranteed to get my purchase and my change every time. When that machine gobbles up your cash or credit card and gives you nothing in return and takes your last $10 or $20 shame on you. 😄😄😄 Carry on.

I’ve been touching base with my buddies from RTO and a CED MS1. I call us “the Dinosaurs” because of our age and our transit training history. Sometimes I point out a group of posts and ask for their opinions. Sometimes it is reversed and they see something that I overlooked. The posts about the new R211 NTT are really revealing to my crew. I’m of the opinion that the NTT class of equipment is shiny and has some interesting features. I’m also part of the generation of T/O- M/M and C/Rs who were told that the idea was to blind the public with BS. Those of us who were based around East 180th Street yard when the R110A was tested remembered that it usually died once or twice a week in the station while in service. It became a joking matter amongst the regular and crews up there. Luckily the shop was right there. I was just happy that they kept it on the and not inflict on the Dyre line. Finally they introduced the R142 cars to the and, eventually, the line. My first impression was that it had a nice operating cab. Having been operating Pre-Redbird SMEE since coming to RTO all I could say was that it was different. I also operated an R62A car daily on the and remember a TSS telling me that the R142 was better than the R62A and that it was the future for RTO. I told him that it might be the future but it definitely wasn’t better. I left Dyre headed S/B and showed him that at every stop the TOD screen said that I had overrun the station by 40 feet or more. Never mind that I had made perfect 10 car stops. The next day while leaving Morris Park the display and side signs went out. I entered East 180th Street and two Motor Instructors , my regular guys heading home, got on and I told them that I would fix the problem. The TSS got scared when I opened the cabinet and I reset two circuit breakers. By the time we left Simpson St everything was fine. The motor instructors asked the TSS if I was supposed to operate all the way to Flatbush if the problem continued and he told them that neither he, I, or they were allowed to do what I did. That was my defining moment about the NTT equipment. The motor instructors and I were taught to use our training to overcome problems before a supervisor or RCI was on the scene. The newer TSS guys were telling us to sit tight and wait for help to arrive. I’m sure that Bill from Maspeth, RTOman, and a few others from that era know exactly where I’m coming from. If we sat still and took no action we would be out of service in a heartbeat. Even Kamen Rider gave you guys a hint a few days ago. Like my dinosaur folks say it’s obvious if you step back and look at the big picture. Give me a SMEE train and I’ll be on the move while you’re stuck on an NTT waiting for help because the crew wasn’t taught how to overcome a breakdown. My rant and my opinion. Carry on.

Obviously you don’t have a clue about what happened at 81st do you? An accident could be caused by someone being pushed into the side of the train. The worst case scenario is that someone ended up under the train. Now you have EMS, police officers and transit supervisors on the scene. Is this person still alive or deceased ? Was this person pushed or fainted ? Can you retrieve the body ? Reports have to be written. The T/O and/or C/R have to be checked out and federal records are necessary before the evidence is removed and the train is cleared for movement. As for the broken rail problem do you think that there are replacement rails just lying around ? I’m sure that you are frustrated by these incidents but, IMO , you are coming across as an extremely selfish whiner. Carry on.

I see your point although if it said to 138th St and resumed normal operations it would have been correct. I think most people understood the implication of the post. I wonder what you would say about my making two round trips on the from the Concourse to Bowling Green arriving on the upper level Carry both times . I was never classified as being anything but a . Either way I see your point. Carry on.

I’m curious what you think is funny about the report. From my perspective the trains are discharged at 96th and stacking up N/B along Lenox Avenue until the problem is resolved. The runs on the Lexington line to the Concourse. If that’s your beef remember that it’s the line because the isn’t running along the route from Brooklyn at this time . Maybe I’m missing something ? Carry on.

Not to mention the riding public and our “knowledgeable “ posters who conveniently overlook the fact that fares weren’t raised at the height of the pandemic. Carry on.

Thank you. I don’t know why some people overthink things. Carry on.

No problem. No hard feelings here. Carry on

Just so we understand each other better. I wasn’t talking about you, period. I was talking about anything operating on NYCT tracks from the original subway up until the present. You seem to be focusing on today’s operations specifically whereas I am talking about Identifying anything moving along any line at any time. That’s what dispatchers and tower operators have done since day one. Furthermore the Sperry Rail car is not on the transit roster, nor is the Sperry unit that operates on the LIRR occasionally. That’s my point. I’m happily retired but I still have connections with my friends in RTO, CED, and Operations and Planning. Go back and re-read the statement that Kamen Rider made asking about where it was written about operating on NYCT tracks. I was agreeing with the point. Carry on.

I think that some of these posters have no clue about the procedure, zero, nada and are just making assumptions. I know that the Sperry car operated on NYCT trackage for 25+ years and it damn sure wasn’t on the NYCT roster. I’m talking about the Sperry Rail car and not the TGO cars. I think that my buddy from Maspeth, Bill, RTOman, yourself , DTC, and a few other people understand what I’m trying to point out. Carry on

All I can say is AMEN. Thanks for pointing this out. I thought that many posters were aware of the issues pertaining to new subway car issues that have occurred in the past but obviously I was mistaken. What bothers me is that there is documented history of these issues online and even on present day sites of newspapers around the country. Googling Kawasaki production problems, M9 railcar, DC Metro issues, or other issues related to rail car production isn’t hard. It’s not only about rail cars. Remember the Grumman Flxible buses fiasco ? As you pointed out I’ve seen problems dating back to that time frame, R62-68 classes, R110 class, through the advent of the R142- class. Every time the issues were fixed. Patience is a virtue. Carry on

You’re entitled to your own personal opinion but I don’t think that the rollsigns are an issue. I’m coming from an IRT perspective but at Flatbush Avenue on the line we changed the north destination signs 5 days a week during the pm tour. From Dyre to 241st on every other train. The lower signs were changed to “thru express “ for a long time too until the riders realized that every ran express during those hours. To eliminate the problem that you envision the crew office could/would assign people on restricted duty to do the sign changes at Astoria.” Cake baked “ as the old timers used to say. My solution. Carry on.

You'll probably get a better answer in the Transit Employment section.

In that Parsons-Archer case I was trying to imagine the chaos that it caused to the SE Queens buses and the LIRR at Jamaica . Perhaps they had some doubts about the 179th St. terminal, too ? Just musing. Carry on.

The Dyre line was the local south of East 180th Street when it was connected to the WPR line. trains from Dyre to New Lots when I first saw them in Brownsville in the late fifties. SMEE equipment compared to the Lo-V cars that ran on the Lex line previously in that area. Carry on.

Early in my career I worked on work trains and I remember working in the Steinway tube. I definitely agree with your first point about the location. My point is about the depth of the tunnel itself. I’ve actually walked from the point under First Avenue to Grand Central tower to communicate with the Jay Street Command Center. My recollection is that there was only a platform about two or three car lengths between the downward and upward slopes of the trackage making station construction impossible. My second point is that the neighborhood damn sure wouldn’t want any station there and would definitely sue to have it blocked. My opinion is that this would be a terrible waste of money. Look at residents and their backgrounds and you’ll understand what I’m talking about. Carry on.

A minor issue is a defect in the real world. If someone knowingly ignored such a thing or swept it under the rug that’s grounds for termination and/or prosecution under the law. Carry on.

I know that the , and the stop at Brooklyn Bridge- City Hall station. That’s the name of the IRT station. It was also called Brooklyn Bridge-Worth St when the platforms were extended north to the old Worth St station. The , ,old TT West End also terminated there middays before 1967 and the new service realignment. That BMT station was Chambers Street station with Municipal Building added signage on the mezzanine leading to the street. I cleaned it and traveled through it many times. The only BMT station that I know that is labeled as City Hall is located on the other side of the City Hall complex where the BMT Broadway local and now stop. My memories. Might be outdated now but…… Carry on. a

I think that was an April Fool joke post from bulk88.