Mysterious2train

No, the bulletin specifically said Euclid Av to Hoyt-Schermerhorn. I would repost the bulletin here but the mods removed it when I posted it the first time. Here is the the original Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/19c9r4n/r211t_to_start_service_on_the_c_line/?share_id=h5wxmAzdWT1mTNuDSCATt&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=4 There were definitely some passengers still on the train, so either the MTA subsequently retracted or modified that ban, or somebody messed up.

Simple answer is when the MTA ordered the R179s, they were planning to keep the at 480' for the foreseeable future. Just read this excerpt from the line review (which was released in 2015 after the R179 order was placed) As others have alluded to the R179s were at one point intended to provide some extra cars for the opening of the Second Avenue Subway. The MTA issued a Request for Proposals (RFP) for the R179s in 2010 with a base order of 290 cars, and an option of 50 cars. A second option of 80 cars was added with the intention of providing extra cars for the opening of the SAS. I can't find an exact breakdown but the order was intended to be a majority 5-car sets. So the might have been able to graduate to full-length trains. But by the time the contract was actually awarded to Kawasaki in March 2012, the order was shrunk to a 300 car base order with no options with 260 cars in 4-car sets and 40 in 5-car sets. So as ordered, the vast majority of the fleet was to be 4-car sets (making 32.5 8-car trains) with only four 10-car trains. If the R179 fleet was delivered as ordered, then the would have presumably used exclusively or almost exclusively 4-car R179 sets, at least in the short-term until the R211s was delivered, and the would have been almost entirely R46s and used at most four R179 sets. Of course, what actually happened is due to Bombardier completely sh*tting the bed with the order, the MTA negotiated an extra eighteen cars in the order, taking what would have been eighteen 4-car sets and turning them into 5-car sets, increasing the number of 10-car train sets from four as originally ordered to an ultimate total of thirteen (and likewise reducing the ultimate number of eight-car trains from 32.5 to 23.5). This allowed the to use almost a dozen R179 sets each day which freed up some R46s to use on the . So really, it was just the MTA making the most of a bad situation that the ended up with a mixed fleet. Additionally, do we actually have any indication from the MTA besides our own speculation that the agency wants to make the full length now? For all I now, the agency could be fine leaving the as mixed length for the next few decades - we know the agency was fine leaving the at 480 ft long last decade.

Bulletin was posted on Reddit, so here it is: [images removed] - mod team

This is it.

As a reminder, we know 4060-4069 was taken out of passenger service at least once, on or around April 5th, due to what seemed to be because of door issues. Some Reddit users have claimed 4060-4069 was taken out of service again earlier today, including one who said they saw it sitting at Euclid this afternoon. Another user on that Subreddit's chat thread claimed that the train lost power this morning between 207th and Dyckman which is why it was taken OOS. No idea how accurate that is though.

The draft East Side Access schedules show no service to/from Grand Central Madison between ~1:45 AM and 5:45 AM.

To add on to what Around the Horn said, as of the last update to the MTA board committees back in June 2021, the 20 R211T cars (open gangway) are scheduled to arrive in June of this year, and the next set of 10 R211A cars (a.k.a. the beginning of the actual production order) is scheduled to arrive in September.

The base order has 440 R211As, which is just enough to retire the ~350 or so R46s at Pitkin/207th, which squares with the goal of putting them on the for 8th Ave CBTC, on paper anyway.

Looks to be related to this Somebody more in the know can confirm, but guessing the middle track at 149th on Jerome is being used to store equipment for the ADA accessibility work at the complex, so the is running on the local track in both directions, and to reduce potential merging delays between 138th and 149th a handful of trips are being sent via 7th Ave. Those rerouted trips seem to only be during the AM though.

No. Even after the Queens Blvd West CBTC project wraps up, the current 2020-2024 capital program calls for CBTC installation on the Crosstown and 63rd St lines (as well as Astoria/60th St and the Queens Blvd Line from Kew Gardens to 179th St and Archer Ave). And we will presumably see funding for CBTC on the 6th Avenue and Broadway mainlines in a future capital program(s). Which makes the idea of major expansions in B-Division weekend service likely DOA for a decade or two. Even after those CBTC projects are done, the MTA can play the "we're broke" and "we can't run extra service because of regular maintenance" cards. Might be the cynic in me but I'm a little skeptical that we'll ever even see the current garbage 12-minute weekend headways on half of the B-division reverted.

As per the MTA data feeds for this week, the and (in Manhattan) are all scheduled to end early this week (except Friday), presumably due to the 6th Ave Fastrack: - Lost 4 round trips, Last train from 145th scheduled to depart 8:35 PM (normally 9:15 PM); Last train from Brighton Beach 8:14 PM (normally 8:54 PM) - Lost 2 round trips, Last train from Forest Hills 8:06 PM (normally 8:27); Last train from Metropolitan to Manhattan 8:14 PM (normally 8:38). Service between Delancey-Essex and Myrtle also ending 2 hours early which is also attributed to Fastrack. - Lost 9(!) round trips, Last train from Ditmars 7:48 PM (normally 9:26 PM); Last train from Whitehall 8:38 PM (normally 10:14) So the was already ending a little early, and perhaps they just attributed it to/it just got mixed in with the big FUBAR on Broadway yesterday. I stayed in Queens yesterday, but I did see one Jamaica-bound signed up as via Crosstown, so I'm assuming 6th Ave was a real Clusterf. No clue why the is ending so much earlier than normal. though. Hope this isn't the start of even more G.O. creep.

A bit bland that the B-cars don't have any color to them, especially compared to the M-8s shown in the same video! One of the many renderings did show a blue horizontal stripe on the bottom with diagonal yellow stripe, but it looks like it was only on the A-cars and was replaced by the diagonal stripes. The wraps on the R160s come off as tacky to me (I think because they were added later on, compared to being an "intrinsic" part of the design like with the M9s and R211s, at least once the designs were finalized/hijacked by Cuomo) but I do at least like that on them the blue continues on the side of the A-cars onto the B-cars (though I don't love the blue wrap being on the top half). Ideal for me would've been the horizontal blue stripe on the bottom half of all the cars with the thin yellow stripe above that.

Makes sense indeed but I have a feeling we're still going to see posts about how the base order could/should go to Jamaica or Coney Island, or how the R160s should be moved here or there, etc. The MTA and Kawasaki would have to renegotiate the order contract to do that, possibly costing the MTA more money, though at least it would hypothetically be easier/cheaper to do now compared to later on since Kawasaki is still working on the test sets and hasn't moved on to the production sets yet. Regardless, what would this accomplish? What does "budget" mean in this context? Are you referring to the capital budgets or annual operating budgets? How would this save money, since the same number of R211 cars would make up the base order and the subway and SIR would be using the same number of cars to make service? (and again, putting aside that renegotiating the contract might just increase the price). How long would those R46s be expected to stay on Staten Island? Until the option orders, if they're ordered? It's not like they can stick around forever. Sounds like this would just rob Peter to pay Paul.

Don't worry, even if Uncle Joe and Congress actually do provide some Fedbux soon to fund phase 2, it wouldn't open until the end of this decade at the absolute earliest - more likely into the next decade. If the R46s are still around by then, the MTA will have much bigger problems to deal with.

Indirectly, yes. In the Oct 2019 board and committee meetings the MTA board approved awarding a contract to Thales to install CBTC equipment onboard the R211s. The contract stated that the 2nd R211 option order of 437 cars would be in 89 4-car and 5-car sets. That works out to 405 cars in sets of 5 (81 sets, 40.5 full trains) and 32 cars in sets of 4 (8 sets, 4 full trains).

Good 'ol former NYS Deputy Police Superintendent and Nassau County Assistant Police Commissioner David "Why should I ride and inconvenience myself when I can ride in a car?” Mack.

The CBTC project was split into 2 phases. The first phase includes the QBL mainline from 8 Av-50 St to Kew Gardens and was funded in previous capital programs. The next phase is (was?) part of the 2020-2024 program and includes 63rd Street (the 6th Av-Queens line) and Kew Gardens to 179 St and Archer Av.

No plans to do any through-running that I'm aware of (beyond the peak-hour SLE trips to Stamford that already exist, anyway). It would just be regular Shore Line East service. I do think the MTA or CTDOT paid a little lip service to the idea of limited through-running in some planning document or other a long time ago, if I'm not misremembering, but I don't remember off the top of my head. There's also SLE platforms and consists being a lot shorter than typical New Haven Line trains to consider as well. Could be even longer - assuming a standard express from NYC to Stamford, then local to New Haven, you'd probably be looking at closer to 3.5 hours from NYC to New London (compared to about 2.5 hours on Amtrak). Granted, making fewer stops like those (former?) peak-hour expresses certainly could cut down the run time. I get the appeal of Metro-North/SLE through service, though (and this is definitely getting out of Metro-North territory) I would much rather see Connecticut and Rhode Island complete their plans of bringing SLE and Rhode Island commuter rail service service together at Westerly, RI to help fill in one of the last commuter rail gaps along the Northeast Corridor. Not that either state has devoted much funding to this over the last decade though. Scoots between Wassaic and Southeast, typically every two hours. Prior to March 2018, there was also one through train from Wassaic to GCT each day on Saturday and Sunday, though this was discontinued due to track work.

Something that apparently slipped under the radar: John Longobardi, Chief Transportation Officer at Metro-North, told the Connecticut Commuter Rail Council at their October meeting that the supplemental 60-car order of M-8s had started arriving, but hadn't started testing yet (almost a year late, since the order was approved in November 2016 and was expected to start arriving after three years, but obviously the least of Metro-North and Shore Line East's problems this past year). M-8 tests in Shore Line East territory are progressing as well, as they have been for some five years now?

Some relevant tweets. So this route is starting this weekend, poles installed, and the MTA has yet to officially announce it to the public? I definitely don't see any info on the website.

Kawasaki is a reliable carbuilder for the MTA, certainly more so than Bombardier at this point (as low as that bar is) but relying on them to be NYCT's sole carbuilder would be asking for trouble. Even if we assume Kawasaki acts with the MTA's best interests in mind and wouldn't try to take advantage of their monopoly, any delays they experience could have a domino effect on their orders. While we've all heard about the delays with the M9s, and we're prepared for the possibility that the R211s could be delayed too, there's also the additional 60-car M8 order for Metro-North (and (formerly?) Shore Line East?) - supposed to start arriving back around September and is now some 9 months late. I don't think we've heard anybody from the MTA/CDOT/Kawasaki come out and give a reason for the M8 delays, but I would assume the M9 delays have pushed back work on the M8s. Granted, delays and setbacks are normal, and the M8 order is a small, supplemental order meant primarily to increase service as opposed to retiring an older fleet, and there's presumably little need for those extra M8s right now with ridership down due to COVID. But in a world where demand shoots back up, we really shouldn't open up NYCT to a situation where an issue with Kawasaki or any hypothetical sole manufacturer production ended up delaying multiple big car orders. The MTA already only has a handful of bidders willing to work with it. Restrictive low-bidding laws are certainly something to look at, but going with a single manufacturer is just restrictive in a different direction.

More pictures posted online and linked on Reddit: https://imgur.com/a/sgPWqO7

I was interested in the discussion in the Random Thoughts thread on on-time performance in the wake of the R46/R160 swap, so I went through the board materials and crudely pasted together weekday OTP info for all of 2019. OTP for the fluctuated all last year. In particular there was a noticeable jump in August once the returned to using the express tracks between 36 St and 59 St in Brooklyn (Several other lines also saw improved performance in August). service to Coney Island ended on October 21 but it's hard to say what impact, if any, that had on OTP. There were also other events last year like signals being retimed, speed limits being raised on certain areas of track, and schedule changes (which might include runtime changes). The R46/R160 swap started early in December and we do see OTP drop on the and and rise on the and from December to January. But of course there are so many factors affecting performance and OTP is changing every month so I wouldn't blame the swap just yet. It'll be interesting to see the numbers for this month when they come out.

Now I'm not saying these rumors are true at all (more just playing devil's advocate) but even if we ignore his interventions on big projects like the Second Avenue Subway and the L Project, Cuomo has certainly shown a willingness to micromanage MTA affairs in the past. Like when the Queens Midtown Tunnel was renovated post-Hurricane Sandy and he ordered the MTA to replace the white tiles with blue and yellow tiles to match NY state colors (which the NY Post claims cost an extra $20-30 million). You can even see it in official MTA board materials with the vague mention of "tunnel wall tile modifications to meet New York State branding guidelines". Not to mention the light shows on several NY state bridges (including some owned by the MTA) and the blue and yellow wraps on the R160s, R211s, R262s and M9s, it's clear Cuomo/his administration is concerned with appearances is and wiling to extend that to the MTA. I honestly don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for the Cuomo admin to hear about shabby-looking subway cars that are closing in on 60 years old, with reliability slowing falling, with a new fleet of cars currently arriving to replace them, and him then ordering the MTA to get retire those old cars as soon as is feasible. If he or a high-ranking admin. member did give the order, would the MTA really be able to say no? And on what grounds? Maybe arguing that retiring the R32s now would create a car shortage, but would even that work? And putting aside the rumors/speculation from this thread, there's also Dan Ravoli saying outright in the article quoted above and on his Twitter that the R32s are being retired this Spring. Now granted, he doesn't work for the MTA and could be misinformed, made a mistake or is flat-out lying, but I would hope he know better than that being a reporter. Given how he reports heavily on transit issues and is a fixture at board and committee meetings I'd like to think he's a little more trustworthy than the typical reporter, but who knows. He doesn't have a title at the MTA, sure, but literally appoints a plurality of MTA board members, including the Chair/CEO and as of last year, the state budget director. And we know he and his administration are more than willing to interfere with MTA operations of any level, from big projects down to trivial issues, and he often gets his way. Not to mention the state legislature giving him most of what he wants when it comes to MTA things that require legislative approval (which is of course the legislators' choice, but just pointing it out). He definitely has influence.

Not to my knowledge and anecdotally, ridership is fairly low on the Roosevelt Island portion at times with only a couple of people on some buses. Which is why I'm mixed on cutting service to the northern part of the island and undoing the round-robin pattern. But, I will argue the Q102 has garbo headways offpeak and has a ridiculous routing from trying to juggle several roles at once which hurts its potential. I understand two routes is never going to happen and I'd just be happy with the Q104/QT63. More anecdotes, but when the missus and I go from the island to Western Queens it's either to the shops along the Q104 route/Broadway (like Costco) or to Queens Plaza/Court Square. Now we just take Uber to the former and take the Q102 to Queens Plaza, or take Uber if the next Q102 is far away or it's somewhere a little farther from the Q102, like Court Square. If RI got the Q104 and Q39 we'd be set. If RI got the QT63 we would at least be set for Broadway (and even for trips Jackson Hts/Elmhurst if she could stand a bus ride of that length vs taking the ) and she'd probably Uber to Queens Plaza/Court Square. If RI gets the QT78 she'll probably just want to take Uber everywhere to avoid walking/transferring from the QT78 (unless we need the specifically and service is not stopping at Roosevelt Island for whatever reason).