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Fresh Pond

Next Generation Question

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As we all know, the next gens are comming and in the bunches. everybody is saying where they are going next but in different answers. so im asking, does anybody really know where they are going? please and thank you...

 

 

DEPOTS THAT HAVE THEM

Mantattanville

Quill

Gun Hill

JFK

Flatbush

Castleton

Yukon

LaGuardia

 

DEPOTS THAT ARE GETTING THEM (or so they say...)

East New York?

Fresh Pond?

Jackie Gleason?

College Point?

Grand Avenue?

Ulmer Park?

Spring Creek?

More at Quill???

 

can anybody prove that they are going to those depots?

 

on a side note, why does Quill need next gens if already got buses from Flatbush?

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I don't think anyone can accurately predict where they're going, as assignments can change very easily. The best bet is to just wait and see what happens.

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Don't think anyone knows. It does seem like certain depots won't be getting any though (meaning KB). Poor Kingsbridge..........

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My best guess is Casey Stengel right after JFK finishes their batch (over half done), because they have 50 1993 O5s. Anything is possible right now, so take what I just said with a grain of salt (along with everything else). BTW, doesn't this belong in the NG sticky?

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Don't think anyone knows. It does seem like certain depots won't be getting any though (meaning KB). Poor Kingsbridge..........

 

LOL, yea I think they know nothing new is headed over there so they started whitebacking more of the 1999s. Maybe they think a new coat of paint will convince people the 46 out of 285 buses are brand new. If I get a KB bus and there aren't at least 3 things wrong with the bus I get worried :o

 

People do have a list of the assignment its just a matter of them not being able to post it because either they aren't supposed to know or something things change (ie 4140-4169 going to JFK instead of SC).

 

To the OP: the better question is why the hell is Quill getting NGs and the Designlines? The fleet ain't that old over there or beat up.

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Well according to a recent SI Advance article and two SI Div workers on SubChat, Yukon and/or Castleton are still due for even more O7NGs to make it so that more than half of the SI Fleet is O7NGs.

 

That upsets me a bit because those O7NGs are flimsy and hit every bump terribly, and also lack the wide aisle space found in the O5s although OTOH, the A/C is lovely, it takes very little time for wheelchair passengers & they're fast.

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To the OP: the better question is why the hell is Quill getting NGs and the Designlines? The fleet ain't that old over there or beat up.

 

They want Quill to be 100% hybrid...

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That upsets me a bit because those O7NGs are flimsy and hit every bump terribly, and also lack the wide aisle space found in the O5s although OTOH, the A/C is lovely, it takes very little time for wheelchair passengers & they're fast.

 

Its not the bus.....its Staten Island streets that messes up the NG's b/c the NG's are fine in Gun Hill, Michael J. Quill and Flatbush (several)!

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.7; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

They want Quill to be 100% hybrid...

 

They also want Manhattanville all hybrid, so what is every manhattan depot going to be all hybrids and they just send the older buses to MTA Bus and the outer borough depots?

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LOL, yea I think they know nothing new is headed over there so they started whitebacking more of the 1999s. Maybe they think a new coat of paint will convince people the 46 out of 285 buses are brand new. If I get a KB bus and there aren't at least 3 things wrong with the bus I get worried :o

 

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.7; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

 

 

They also want Manhattanville all hybrid, so what is every manhattan depot going to be all hybrids and they just send the older buses to MTA Bus and the outer borough depots?

 

Like KB. I asked the operators at KB when I was there last week visiting, where is their NG buses. They said they suppose to have gotten them, but they don't know what happened. All I can say is Riverdale(ites), unite. Take your richness, and power, and use it. Demand new Hybrids on the Bx7, Bx10, and Bx20........

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Its not the bus.....its Staten Island streets that messes up the NG's b/c the NG's are fine in Gun Hill, Michael J. Quill and Flatbush (several)!

 

I am not so sure about that because Staten Island has had them for almost a year and they have been doing fine.

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I lot of issues with the NGs probaly aren't noticeble to customers I assume. IMO Orion should just stop making the NGs and bring back the OG. Out of all the hybrid Orions in NYC the most recent OGs that ENY & MTA Bus have seem to be the best batch IMO. The OG aren't the greatest buses but so far they seem to be better than the NGs. Both the OG and NG CNG models seem to be a lost cause, well the ones here in NY at least. Those WAMTA OG CNGs don't seem as bad as the NYC VII CNGs.

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I lot of issues with the NGs probaly aren't noticeble to customers I assume. IMO Orion should just stop making the NGs and bring back the OG. Out of all the hybrid Orions in NYC the most recent OGs that ENY & MTA Bus have seem to be the best batch IMO. The OG aren't the greatest buses but so far they seem to be better than the NGs. Both the OG and NG CNG models seem to be a lost cause, well the ones here in NY at least. Those WAMTA OG CNGs don't seem as bad as the NYC VII CNGs.

 

You do realize the OG almost put Daimler/Orion out of business right...?

 

The OGs had problems everywhere they went, from Toronto to Mississauga to San Francisco to Atlanta and so on, the OG caused lawsuits for Daimler/Orion which brought them to their knees. They were in no way better than the NGs cause the NGs has not caused one single problem that was nationwide for Daimler/Orion, only the custom seat heater that was not only for NYC, but for other cities as well, in which the OG had that same issue years ago.

 

They discontinued the OG and introduced the NG which fixed 90% of the problems the OGs had. Mississauga Transit, the home of Orion Buses is not even ordering from Daimler/Orion anymore cause of what happened with their OG Diesels. Even in NYC, the OGs were riddled with problems that caused some of those buses to be sent back to Daimler/Orion.

 

WMATA has a better bus maintenance record than MTA NYCT/MTA Bus so dont even think of comparing our buses to theirs. WMATA is smart not to order from Orion anymore cause those OGs they have were riddled with problems, some had to be sent back, thus their move to New Flyer.

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You do realize the OG almost put Daimler/Orion out of business right...?

 

The OGs had problems everywhere they went, from Toronto to Mississauga to San Francisco to Atlanta and so on, the OG caused lawsuits for Daimler/Orion which brought them to their knees. They were in no way better than the NGs cause the NGs has not caused one single problem that was nationwide for Daimler/Orion, only the custom seat heater that was not only for NYC, but for other cities as well, in which the OG had that same issue years ago.

 

They discontinued the OG and introduced the NG which fixed 90% of the problems the OGs had. Mississauga Transit, the home of Orion Buses is not even ordering from Daimler/Orion anymore cause of what happened with their OG Diesels. Even in NYC, the OGs were riddled with problems that caused some of those buses to be sent back to Daimler/Orion.

 

WMATA has a better bus maintenance record than MTA NYCT/MTA Bus so dont even think of comparing our buses to theirs. WMATA is smart not to order from Orion anymore cause those OGs they have were riddled with problems, some had to be sent back, thus their move to New Flyer.

 

Thank you very much......IAWTP 100%. I've seen so many OG problems here in New York City....I've rode several or more NG's and I haven't had one problem with them. Flatbush messed their NG's as did Staten Island streets. He has no idea what he's talking about....so no one should be blaming the bus......blame their depots and the constant potholes that suppose to been fixed when winter ended!

 

I am not so sure about that because Staten Island has had them for almost a year and they have been doing fine.

 

Right, but who knows it can be the streets or the depots not fixing them properly. I haven't had any problems with Staten Island NG's @ all!

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Like KB. I asked the operators at KB when I was there last week visiting, where is their NG buses. They said they suppose to have gotten them, but they don't know what happened. All I can say is Riverdale(ites), unite. Take your richness, and power, and use it. Demand new Hybrids on the Bx7, Bx10, and Bx20........

 

The problem is that the complainers in riverdale don't ride KB buses. they use metro north, ride or at worse use the bxm1/2/18. Those that do use KB buses have grown accustomed to the issues. I wrote MTA a letter and apparently because the BX div fleet age is the lowest in the city KB can't get new buses. Yet somehow MHV with all those damn OGs can still get 3800s.

 

And the B/os don't seem to know anything. I've heard KB would get OGs from Manhattan, nothing at all, 100 NGs, the 4300s, a b/o on the m100 told me the depot would become all hybrids in the future. The best answer I got came from 1 of the heads at the depot "sometime this year, we should be getting new buses".

 

As for the OGs, I like the design better than the NGs but the amount of times a QV 6400 has died on me is about as high as the number of times a KB 400-600 has died.

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 3.4; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

They want Quill to be 100% hybrid...

 

There's something I also noticed about Quill (sorry for going off-topic, but this needs to be addressed lol)...

 

Its like Quill is the spoiled child of all the depots. Think about it. They have almost everything good...

 

1. The youngest RTS buses in the whole city fleet.

2. The only depot with cameras in the buses. Now before anybody says anything about this (and I know you will), those RTS buses at Flatbush and those SBS artics at Gun Hill started at Quill.

3. The only NGs that actually announce the stops. Actually, they have the ONLY buses in the whole city that have buses that announce the stops. (EXCLUDING LIB)

4. The only buses with the video advertisements on the side of 10 buses.

5. And now they might be testing the new Designline buses there.

 

Is this some unfair advantage? There's 19 depots in the city (27 if you include (MTA) bus) and somehow they land on that one? Can somebody explain that one to me?

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They also want Manhattanville all hybrid, so what is every manhattan depot going to be all hybrids and they just send the older buses to MTA Bus and the outer borough depots?
They want Manhattan to be an all-hybrid depot because low-floor buses accomodate wheelchair passengers more, and IINM the most wheelchair customers are centered in Manhattan. It also makes sense since Manhattan buses are the slowest buses in the city due to gridlock and whatnot, and IIRC hybrids are good for stop-and-go because of regenerative braking.

 

There's something I also noticed about Quill (sorry for going off-topic, but this needs to be addressed lol)...

 

Its like Quill is the spoiled child of all the depots. Think about it. They have almost everything good...

 

1. The youngest RTS buses in the whole city fleet.

2. The only depot with cameras in the buses. Now before anybody says anything about this (and I know you will), those RTS buses at Flatbush and those SBS artics at Gun Hill started at Quill.

3. The only NGs that actually announce the stops. Actually, they have the ONLY buses in the whole city that have buses that announce the stops. (EXCLUDING LIB)

4. The only buses with the video advertisements on the side of 10 buses.

5. And now they might be testing the new Designline buses there.

 

Is this some unfair advantage? There's 19 depots in the city (27 if you include (MTA) bus) and somehow they land on that one? Can somebody explain that one to me?

Well, MJQ maintains their buses very well because of low mileage (crosstown routes), and not that big of a fleet so each bus gets TLC. IDK about the rest of your post though.

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 3.4; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

 

 

There's something I also noticed about Quill (sorry for going off-topic, but this needs to be addressed lol)...

 

Its like Quill is the spoiled child of all the depots. Think about it. They have almost everything good...

 

1. The youngest RTS buses in the whole city fleet.

2. The only depot with cameras in the buses. Now before anybody says anything about this (and I know you will), those RTS buses at Flatbush and those SBS artics at Gun Hill started at Quill.

3. The only NGs that actually announce the stops. Actually, they have the ONLY buses in the whole city that have buses that announce the stops. (EXCLUDING LIB)

4. The only buses with the video advertisements on the side of 10 buses.

5. And now they might be testing the new Designline buses there.

 

Is this some unfair advantage? There's 19 depots in the city (27 if you include (MTA) bus) and somehow they land on that one? Can somebody explain that one to me?

 

1. True

2. Cameras dont work on most of them. Some of those artics sent to Quill branched out to other depots. I caught 5755 on the M103 while 5746 was on the M15

 

3. 126th Street's artics announce stops too, some of their artics at least.

4. True

5. I cant wait for that

Edited by Cait Sith

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I can explain it very simply. MJQ is a Manhattan Div depot, that's why they get special treatment. AMS is all hybrids, MHV is mostly hybrids etc. A lot of the other depots are in areas where either politicans don't complain about buses or only the natives ride the routes. Manhattan riders get spoiled.

 

Example if the M98 ran out of Kingsbridge like it should, there be no way in hell the 200-600s would show up on the route. Why? Because people along the upper east side would complain and moan about the broken a/cs, the roaches, rust etc. until either they made sure either KB got new buses or made sure only the 6000/6200s went out on the route.

 

As for the wheelchairs in manhattan, that's something I rarely encouter. I see it happen more in the outer boroughs and it can take forever if the bus is a high floor.

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The OG hybrid is currenty the most relible local bus in the MTA, and the OGs in SF are doing fine. B/Os like driving the OG hybrid so they must not be as bad as people make them out to be. Flatbush "messed" their NGs? LOL. FLA is one of the best maintence depots in NYC if anything the streets in BK is messing them up because they are filmsy, the RTS there are doing fine. I bet that if the OG ran in SI and got beat up by the streets people would be blaming the bus. I know that OGs can't last in SI but those NGs aren't doing too good on SI streets ethier. I remeber reading opinions about B/Os who driven the NGs on another forum and reading that the bus is flimsy and the mirror is always coming a loose! I never heard of that happening on an OG. The OGs at ENY and FP operate on rough streets in bed stuy and ENY and are doing fine.

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The OG hybrid is currenty the most relible local bus in the MTA, and the OGs in SF are doing fine. B/Os like driving the OG hybrid so they must not be as bad as people make them out to be. Flatbush "messed" their NGs? LOL. FLA is one of the best maintence depots in NYC if anything the streets in BK is messing them up because they are filmsy, the RTS there are doing fine. I bet that if the OG ran in SI and got beat up by the streets people would be blaming the bus. I know that OGs can't last in SI but those NGs aren't doing too good on SI streets ethier. I remeber reading opinions about B/Os who driven the NGs on another forum and reading that the bus is flimsy and the mirror is always coming a loose! I never heard of that happening on an OG. The OGs at ENY and FP operate on rough streets in bed stuy and ENY and are doing fine.

 

Wrong, the Orion V CNGs is currently the most reliable local bus in the MTA.

 

OGs may be nice to drive in S.I, but they couldnt handle the loads and loads of passengers they had to handle. 6421 was one of 3 buses (6421, 6474 & 6492) that was sent to S.I for a test and it broke down on the S79 because it couldnt handle the loads, so it bottomed out and broke down. The NGs are actually taking those loads. The only few times I actually seen those S.I NGs break down is on the S44 to St.George. The loads on that route is way too horrible.

 

Also, you might get opinions on buses from B/Os from other forums, but there is no truth to opinions. Its better to find some facts which is what i've been doing on my recent trips to S.I.

 

Here is a simple answer to all of your questions, MJQ is the flagship depot in the entire Manhattan division. MJQ is where all of the bosses are centered at. In addition, MJQ's buses are in better shape than any other depot and that includes MTA and LIB Bus.

 

This man here speaks the truth :cool:

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First, I do believe that the current NG model is a decent bus, but it doesn't have the capacity or the horsepower to handle high-capacity workhorse routes. I counted the number of seats on a standard MTA VII NG, and it's only 33 compared to 39 on the older models. Every time I see an NG M60 on 125 St, it is crush loaded and the engine whimpers like a kicked puppy every time the B/O tries to go forward from a stop. I took a 40xx series NG on the Bx28 across town about five weeks ago on a Saturday morning at 6:40AM, and by the time the bus passed Montefiore hospital it was crush-loaded. By Williamsbridge, the driver had pretty much given up the situation and was calling out "No more room in the front! Get on in the rear!" and even then we had to skip one or two stops due to a lack of room in the rear. The bus too, started to whine about halfway between Esplanade and Bartow. What I would hope for from them would be essentially an "Orionized" version of a NABI Metro-45C (47 seats) or of a New Flyer Xcelsior (42 seats). Both of those models are also supposed to be substantially lighter than the NGs, lessening the load placed upon the engine. Another idea would be a 45-foot high floor model, which should be capable of seating between 50 and 60 people. This way, an engine of the same power would be adequate to transport more people and there would most likely be less in the way of crush-loading. In all three suggestions, the use of nontraditional building materials(eg reinforced vinyl polymers) would lessen the load on both the engine and on the brakes.

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NABI 45C-LFWs would handle loads much more better than most Low Floors.

 

I just noticed a part of a post. MJQ spoiled? No way in hell its spoiled

 

MJQ had the newest artics, then it was swapped for Gun Hill's artics for SBS in which Gun Hill's artics that were sent to MJQ were trashed.

 

MJQ deserves some new buses at this time, the Designlines will be a fresh start for MJQ instead of those hand-me-downs NGs they got. The Novas they received from Flatbush & Manhattanville were garbage, MJQ's novas from Flatbush is STILL giving problems cause Flatbush drove those buses to hell with little or no maintenance.

 

Also, MJQ has 1994 TMCs that are hanging by a thread. They were the only depot in the city to maintain their entire fleet of TMCs while depots like ENY & Manhattanville donated their buses to MTA Bus. But now its time for MJQ to give up their TMCs.

 

So tell me, are they spoiled? In my opinion they are not. They just get robbed every bloody time.

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.7; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

 

 

The problem is that the complainers in riverdale don't ride KB buses. they use metro north, ride or at worse use the bxm1/2/18. Those that do use KB buses have grown accustomed to the issues. I wrote MTA a letter and apparently because the BX div fleet age is the lowest in the city KB can't get new buses. Yet somehow MHV with all those damn OGs can still get 3800s.

 

And the B/os don't seem to know anything. I've heard KB would get OGs from Manhattan, nothing at all, 100 NGs, the 4300s, a b/o on the m100 told me the depot would become all hybrids in the future. The best answer I got came from 1 of the heads at the depot "sometime this year, we should be getting new buses".

 

As for the OGs, I like the design better than the NGs but the amount of times a QV 6400 has died on me is about as high as the number of times a KB 400-600 has died.

 

WF has a low age (IIRC, lowest in the Bronx), but they need to stop doing these numbers Borough wide, and do it depot by depot, so their is fairness on where new buses are sent. With Gun Hill getting so many NG Hybrids, they will be doing well too. The Bx16 and Bx34 are dominated by those buses now. Gun Hull just need to keep those wheels clean, and stop letting them get so much brake dust in them, till they become black. KB having those old buses, was a main reason I had left for West Farms. Got tired of old dragging artics, that one got most of the time on artic routes, or a beaten up Orion V. Those 8800 RTS's were better to keep IMO.........

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