Diamond 4 and Diamond 5

[Guest lance25]

I see your point SubwayGuy about the importance of the destination reading, really I do, but I still don't think it warrants its own display. Obviously, the folks who order the components for the trains feel the same way. Everything from the R40s to the R68s have only the north and south destinations and the route bullet on them. Sure, the '70s cars originally had the line maps on the interiors, but when they were overhauled in the '80s, the R44s and R46s only had one 15-character reading LCD and a route display. That same setup was put on the NTTs because that has been proven effective for over 20 years (at least ten at the time of the R142 contract).

 

Also, it's not like the display take 30 seconds or longer to cycle through their readings. I understand that folks are in a rush, but if you can't take five seconds or so to read the displays or stick your head in the train to see where it's heading, then you have more problems than just not knowing where your train is going.

 

@Mike: Trains don't have the origins on them anymore because most people don't really care where the train came from. I mean, if you're heading to Dyre Av, you probably don't care if it came from Flatbush, Utica or Bowling Green. As long as it's heading to Dyre, it doesn't really matter.

[SubwayGuy]

I see your point SubwayGuy about the importance of the destination reading, really I do, but I still don't think it warrants its own display. Obviously, the folks who order the components for the trains feel the same way. Everything from the R40s to the R68s have only the north and south destinations and the route bullet on them. Sure, the '70s cars originally had the line maps on the interiors, but when they were overhauled in the '80s, the R44s and R46s only had one 15-character reading LCD and a route display. That same setup was put on the NTTs because that has been proven effective for over 20 years (at least ten at the time of the R142 contract).

 

The NTT's are well known amongst people who actually work with the trains for not being the best designed trains. There were a number of bugs, kinks, and design flaws that had to be compensated for. Some you can see, some you can't. Some rather embarrassing if you know what to look for, some barely visible at all.

 

I'm pushing this because the signs I'm discussing would actually be a significant improvement and something Transit has to date never looked into doing.

 

Also, it's not like the display take 30 seconds or longer to cycle through their readings. I understand that folks are in a rush, but if you can't take five seconds or so to read the displays or stick your head in the train to see where it's heading, then you have more problems than just not knowing where your train is going.

 

The signs inside the train cycle as well. Four readings: Destination, "the next stop is", [Next stop], Time.

 

Time them sometime. Many times it takes longer than 10 seconds to cycle through completely. If that's the case, the time required to fully read the sign exceeds the time the train is in the station with doors open (during non rush hours). That's not a smart design. A rider should be able to instantly look at any train sign and see the route name and destination.

 

To some extent the countdown clocks provide that (when they're accurate) and there's a reason the countdown clocks don't contain scrolling routing information. A few signs display "DWT" (downtown) "EXP" and "LCL" but this information is secondary and the destination stays constant as it and the route name are the two most important pieces of information about any train.

 

What I'm noting is that it would have been wise for the trains to give that same priority to the two most important pieces of information about a train - route name and destination - when in fact, only route name received that importance.

 

I'm not suggesting they rebuild the signs to match what I've proposed. I'm saying what I think exists now is a dumb design and it would have been smart if they had designed the signs differently in the first place. Hopefully on future orders, they don't make the same mistake.

[hoodciti]

Funny I was thinking about this topic yesterday evening. I live on Burke Avenue on the White Plains Rd. Line and from Grand Central I try to catch the to 238th. I think the the is the best designation for the White

Plains Rd Service. and thats if the to 238 actually goes to 238th. It seems like the WPR (5)s in the PM rush barely serve WPR. Literally every train seems to just go to Gun Hill Rd. Which seems pointless to me. At least serve the stops in between. I know when these trains are late they just go straight to the yard. but maybe they shouldnt be late. I think its highly unfair that because of the MTA's mistakes the passengers have to suffer and crowd onto an already crowded train.

[dman1455]

what's with all the recent necroposting should there be infractions already?

[VWM]

So if a diamond is used for exp, why doesnt his happen or was changed?

Concourse Exp not the

R62s on the 7 don't show the symbol

And the Myrtle-Marcy not the <J>

[bentton316]

i just remember when i was little, going to Allerton Av. seeing the and the . to me, i always saw the go from 238th St-Nereid Av. Bx to Flatbush Av. in Bklyn during rush hours. the always went from Dyre Av. Bx to Bowling Green Manhattan weekdays and weekends. now i never remembered a because to me the never had a diamond. the and the stayed the same

[Trainmaster5]

Funny I was thinking about this topic yesterday evening. I live on Burke Avenue on the White Plains Rd. Line and from Grand Central I try to catch the to 238th. I think the the is the best designation for the White

Plains Rd Service. and thats if the to 238 actually goes to 238th. It seems like the WPR (5)s in the PM rush barely serve WPR. Literally every train seems to just go to Gun Hill Rd. Which seems pointless to me. At least serve the stops in between. I know when these trains are late they just go straight to the yard. but maybe they shouldnt be late. I think its highly unfair that because of the MTA's mistakes the passengers have to suffer and crowd onto an already crowded train.

It really doesn't matter if the train is signed up or when the train is scheduled to run on the WPR line after East 180th St. The biggest problem going n/b during the pm rush is the congestion between 180th St and 241 St. First you have trains heading n/b every 4-5 minutes while s/b service from 241 St may be scheduled to run every 7-8 minutes. That leads to an automatic backup even when things are running perfectly. To alleviate that problem they ran all trains local from E 180th to 241 St. That didn't work so it was decided to run the (5)s to 238th St, discharge them, and send them to the yard from there. Throw 1 sick or homeless person into the mix at 238th St who can't or won't leave the train and the whole corridor is backed up. To make things run easier it was decided to send some of those trains express to Gun Hill Road, discharge them, and send them straight to the yard from there. Those that made stops after Gun Hill only made things worse IMO. As a commuter I can understand your frustration but bear with me for a minute. Imagine the dispatcher at 241 St with a train scheduled to leave in 2 minutes and the scheduled crew is stuck in that conga line at maybe 225th St still heading n/b. The only people around are people on lunch or going home after finishing their trips for the day. What would you do ? Maybe you're a member of the scheduled crew stuck at 225th St n/b who needs to use the rest room and your scheduled lunch period is passing before your eyes while you sit there with your stomach rumbling and throat dry. There were many times when I would leave East 180th St next to a or train headed up that way and I would be at Dyre, ready to head s/b, and those crews hadn't reached 238th St yet. You might be frustrated but all of those bunched up trains cost the money due to late clears (OT), or no lunches(30 minutes per crew member). The only way to reduce that is to CUT service up there which I'm sure no one wants to see. Just my analysis of the situation. Carry on.

[hoodciti]

It really doesn't matter if the train is signed up or when the train is scheduled to run on the WPR line after East 180th St. The biggest problem going n/b during the pm rush is the congestion between 180th St and 241 St. First you have trains heading n/b every 4-5 minutes while s/b service from 241 St may be scheduled to run every 7-8 minutes. That leads to an automatic backup even when things are running perfectly. To alleviate that problem they ran all trains local from E 180th to 241 St. That didn't work so it was decided to run the (5)s to 238th St, discharge them, and send them to the yard from there. Throw 1 sick or homeless person into the mix at 238th St who can't or won't leave the train and the whole corridor is backed up. To make things run easier it was decided to send some of those trains express to Gun Hill Road, discharge them, and send them straight to the yard from there. Those that made stops after Gun Hill only made things worse IMO. As a commuter I can understand your frustration but bear with me for a minute. Imagine the dispatcher at 241 St with a train scheduled to leave in 2 minutes and the scheduled crew is stuck in that conga line at maybe 225th St still heading n/b. The only people around are people on lunch or going home after finishing their trips for the day. What would you do ? Maybe you're a member of the scheduled crew stuck at 225th St n/b who needs to use the rest room and your scheduled lunch period is passing before your eyes while you sit there with your stomach rumbling and throat dry. There were many times when I would leave East 180th St next to a or train headed up that way and I would be at Dyre, ready to head s/b, and those crews hadn't reached 238th St yet. You might be frustrated but all of those bunched up trains cost the money due to late clears (OT), or no lunches(30 minutes per crew member). The only way to reduce that is to CUT service up there which I'm sure no one wants to see. Just my analysis of the situation. Carry on.

 

I appreciate the explanation and I was really hoping someone on the inside could tell me why its so bad on the WPR line. Your analysis has given me better incite on what goes on with the . But I wish some how service could be organized in such a way that passengers aren't left out in the cold waiting long periods of time for a while 3 or 4 trains go by.

Ironically after two weeks of no local service on the WPR line (every train that i took went express to Gun Hill) last night i finally caught a train that actually went to 238th. But I do see your point. I put no blame on operators thing happen. But If you have a literal mob at 180th of train passengers transferring to a and I've seen it many times, maybe the MTA needs to re-evaluate how to deal with the WPR line

.....and i still think the would be helpful.