ctrain Posted July 4, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 4, 2009 Why do the and always get the oldest cars that are about to retire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted July 4, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 4, 2009 Why do the and always get the oldest cars that are about to retire? I am not sure but I grew up taking those trains and they are usually the dirtiest trains around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted July 4, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 4, 2009 Well the is of course the most popular line to get old cars. Not the of course lol(Even tho they get old cars when ever). I belivie its so it can have fast access to 207th yard for scrapping in the future. Plus the cant get NTTs yet cuz of electrical repair over at the Rockaways, which possibly by the R179 it would run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 4, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 4, 2009 Why do the and always get the oldest cars that are about to retire? I've seen cars that are in worse condition than those on the and . The R160s that are at Jamaica are looking terrible! Maybe the and the are getting all the old equipment because the yards that it serves can only serve certain fleet. Maybe there's no equipment for the R160s at Pitkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted July 4, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 4, 2009 Plus the cant get NTTs yet cuz of electrical repair over at the Rockaways, which possibly by the R179 it would run it. I forget the length of the run between Howard Beach and Broad Channel, but it's several miles long, and DC doesn't hold a steady current level over very long distances (part of the reason why AC is used for transmission and distribution power in cities and towns). DC-powered trains (pre-NTT) will be able to operate despite the current drop down that stretch. AC-powered trains (NTT) will literally die out and stall, and an RCI will have to travel out with a laptop and manually reset the computer on the dead train. Now, that's what my friend, an engineer over in Traction Power for the TA informed me when I asked him about the work done over in the Rockaways. I could have poorly conveyed the information that he gave me, but I believe that's the crux of it. As far as 207th Street goes, well, that's the only yard besides Coney Island that I know with a heavy maintenance and overhaul shop, making car stripping activities possible here. I believe that new car deliveries generally get dropped via semi-trailer onto track #65 (thank you, Mr. Dougherty), and I would tend to think that the yard itself is more easily accessible via semi-trailer when it comes time for retired cars to be reefed, but that's disputable. I'd love to know the real reasons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted July 4, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 4, 2009 I forget the length of the run between Howard Beach and Broad Channel, but it's several miles long, and DC doesn't hold a steady current level over very long distances (part of the reason why AC is used for transmission and distribution power in cities and towns). DC-powered trains (pre-NTT) will be able to operate despite the current drop down that stretch. AC-powered trains (NTT) will literally die out and stall, QUOTE] What is NTT? I thought all trains ran on DC current as there is no AC current to the 3rd rail Never mind I see the trains convert the DC to AC propulsion for the motors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted July 4, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 4, 2009 I've seen cars that are in worse condition than those on the and . The R160s that are at Jamaica are looking terrible! Maybe the and the are getting all the old equipment because the yards that it serves can only serve certain fleet. Maybe there's no equipment for the R160s at Pitkin. Actually the R44s are not getting paint jobs for the rusted part, cuz the SMS occurred in 2004-2006 i think. And retirment will occur in a few yrs. The R32s wont matter at all, cuz its gonna be trashed down the atlantic before Summer 2010. ALTHOUGH the should spend money keeping there cars clean. Look at the R142s they just came in like 7 yrs agao and they are as dirty as hell. While the R62s are getting shined up at 239th.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 4, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 4, 2009 Actually the R44s are not getting paint jobs for the rusted part, cuz the SMS occurred in 2004-2006 i think. And retirment will occur in a few yrs. The R32s wont matter at all, cuz its gonna be trashed down the atlantic before Summer 2010. ALTHOUGH the should spend money keeping there cars clean. Look at the R142s they just came in like 7 yrs agao and they are as dirty as hell. While the R62s are getting shined up at 239th.. Some yards do not know how to keep their trains clean; the Jamaica Yard is one of them. I cannot believe how dirty those R160s are looking on the line, and they were just delivered. Horrible!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted July 4, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 4, 2009 pitkin can handle 160s. they get each new 160 to test in Broad Channel. Under its own power. Its south of Broad Channel where the problem is. and someone mentioned that the lines always get the oldest fleet cause of 207st. It does make sense. and to be honest IMO, what better line to end a fleets service to NYC that the most famous line on the planet!!! Im personally glad the R40 slants ended their 41.5 year run on the The R11 ended its run on the Franklin . sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted July 4, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 4, 2009 Are there any current solutions to the Rockaway problem? If they can't put in a new substation along the stretch, then the R179s should be built with both AC and DC traction systems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 4, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 4, 2009 pitkin can handle 160s. they get each new 160 to test in Broad Channel. Under its own power. Its south of Broad Channel where the problem is. and someone mentioned that the lines always get the oldest fleet cause of 207st. It does make sense. and to be honest IMO, what better line to end a fleets service to NYC that the most famous line on the planet!!! Im personally glad the R40 slants ended their 41.5 year run on the The R11 ended its run on the Franklin . sad. Well if Pitkin can handle R160s then why don't they use them on the , if the Rockaways can't handle them yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted July 4, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 4, 2009 Well if Pitkin can handle R160s then why don't they use them on the , if the Rockaways can't handle them yet? The C train is actually a local version of the A. Therefore, their fleets are in most cases meant to be shared with the exception of the current status of the C having shorter trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted July 5, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 5, 2009 Are there any current solutions to the Rockaway problem? If they can't put in a new substation along the stretch, then the R179s should be built with both AC and DC traction systems I believe there are two substations already in place, one toward Howard Beach, and one toward the Rockaways. Remember that the Rockaways are powered by LIPA, while the rest of the system is powered by Con-Ed. The stretch through Jamaica Bay is a national wildlife refuge, and I think that prohibits either, along with MTA/NYCT from adding additional infrastructure outside of the existing ROW, which was built by the LIRR before the park was founded. DC current fades over long segments. Voltage regulators maintain AC voltage through utility distribution systems, but I don't know if current regulators for DC systems exist, or if they would even be feasible to install track side, as they cannot be outside of the ROW. I don't know low the current dips on that segment, but would increasing the current at the two substations alleviate the problem, or would it burn the trains out? I forgot what my friend said. Having two traction power systems on a train, in my own opinion, would be a waste of money, an unnecessary weight addition, and only more components and systems which could malfunction and put a train out of service for extended periods of time. The long and short of it is that as much as people like to knock the TA, I'm sure they've done more than simply scribble ideas down on paper, hang them on a wall and throw darts at them. I'm sure this problem will be resolved soon enough without having to buy specially-equipped trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted July 5, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 5, 2009 Maintenance facilities that take care of the older equipment should think of it as a badge of honor. The better barns are able to work their magic and keep the older cars running while the worse barns get the new stuff because it'll be easier to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted July 5, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 5, 2009 I believe there are two substations already in place, one toward Howard Beach, and one toward the Rockaways. Remember that the Rockaways are powered by LIPA, while the rest of the system is powered by Con-Ed. The first sub-station mentioned is located right next to the old Aquaduct trainstop that is only in use on race days and only has one platform (north bound). I don't remember where the other sub-station is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted July 5, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 5, 2009 Maintenance facilities that take care of the older equipment should think of it as a badge of honor. The better barns are able to work their magic and keep the older cars running while the worse barns get the new stuff because it'll be easier to fix. Great point. New toys can be acquired with money, but it takes skill and talent (and money!) to keep those toys running after a while. The older equipment was built by three companies who have long been out of the railroad product business (Budd, St. Louis Car and Pullman Standard), and while those cars may be a little ugly to look at sometimes, just think of the number of miles traveled, hours run, platforms stopped at, and asses which have sat on those seats over the years. The mechanics at CI and 207 St. are nothing short of wizards.:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 5, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 5, 2009 Great point. New toys can be acquired with money, but it takes skill and talent (and money!) to keep those toys running after a while. The older equipment was built by three companies who have long been out of the railroad product business (Budd, St. Louis Car and Pullman Standard), and while those cars may be a little ugly to look at sometimes, just think of the number of miles traveled, hours run, platforms stopped at, and asses which have sat on those seats over the years. The mechanics at CI and 207 St. are nothing short of wizards.:cool: Why do you think Concourse still has the R68s? The R160s were supposed to go to Concourse, but they didn't want them. Sometimes, newer is not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted July 5, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 5, 2009 Why do you think Concourse still has the R68s? The R160s were supposed to go to Concourse, but they didn't want them. Sometimes, newer is not better. Are you sure? The TA isn't the type of agency that asks you if you want something, they tell you to take it or else. I mean, anything is possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 5, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 5, 2009 Are you sure? The TA isn't the type of agency that asks you if you want something, they tell you to take it or else. I mean, anything is possible... Concourse had their R68s for years and they didn't want to get used to dealing with new equipment. They were fine with what they had and so the R160s ended up going to Jamaica and Coney Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted July 5, 2009 Share #20 Posted July 5, 2009 Why do the and always get the oldest cars that are about to retire? The (A)/© is not only the Death lines, The is also the Death line as of 7/1/2009 since they have the SMEE's that are at Jamaica. The is the next line to Retire cars since Jamaica's SMEE's are done for 1st the The (A)/©. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis1985 Posted July 5, 2009 Share #21 Posted July 5, 2009 I am not sure but I grew up taking those trains and they are usually the dirtiest trains around. lmao exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis1985 Posted July 5, 2009 Share #22 Posted July 5, 2009 if by any chance they end up putting a set or two of R160A or R160B cars on the ( (I HOPE NOT), they'll probably use them from the Coney Island yard, being that Concourse doesn't want them and is nothing but R68/R68A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted July 5, 2009 Share #23 Posted July 5, 2009 That's just a lame excuse not to run NTT on the line. I've rode on them going to Far Rockaway and I experienced ZERO issues regarding train operation. Hey its not my excuse at all. I would like NTTs on the . So why doesn't the T/A want NTTs on the RKWAY PK line? Why wait till R179, besides it being 75ft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted July 5, 2009 Share #24 Posted July 5, 2009 Look, not even the first R179s are going to go to the A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 5, 2009 Share #25 Posted July 5, 2009 Hey its not my excuse at all. I would like NTTs on the . So why doesn't the T/A want NTTs on the RKWAY PK line? Why wait till R179, besides it being 75ft NTTs can't go via Rockaway because of the long stretch between Howard Beach and Broad Channel, from what I've read. In a few years, maybe. And don't count on the R179s being 75 feet because there are less doors of the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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