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Should the Rockaway Park line stations close at nights 7 days a week?


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i live in rockaway and frequent the (A) to far rock between midnight and 6am. every train that ive been on between midnight and 5 am DO have riders transfering to the shuttle at Broad channel. as stated earlier in this thread, there are no Q53, Q21 or Q22 overnights. and knowing Rockaway bus service patterns, i know that if the Q22 were to see overnight service, it will be litterally one or 2 buses which would probably provide service at 30-45 minute headways. not good enough. sure the (S) serves some of the least served stations in the system, but the hassle would not be worth it. first, any bus service from broad channel would reqire a 5 minute walk to the nearest bus stop. and if you have Q22 service, there would still be a walk to the nearest Q22 bus stop. i say, leave the service as is. There are not enough demand for overnight Q22 service. The Q35 runs all night because there is no subway service at all from 116st to the marine parkway bridge and provides an alternate route in and out of Rockaway. Same with Q113 service. Shutting down the Rock Pk line overnights may save some money, but not enough to warrent it cause now that money will have to go with providing the bus service. And us having the lonest commute within NYC is bad enough, but having to switch to a bus, Which we might miss and have to wait an average 45 mins for, is not the answer.

 

"If it aint broke, dont fix it."

Im providing my opinion from a rockaway residents point of veiw. Zman has provided an MTA employees point of veiw.

SHow me one of each point of veiw warrenting this idea.

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I think that this statement pretty much disqualifies HR from continuing with his "idea". The overnight Rock Park (S) uses three T/O's and four Station Agents. I'm quite sure they'd need a helluva lot more T/O's and C/R's for the overnight (5) than is used for the (S).

 

Here's the kicker. A 20 hour day (between his proposed Rock Pk (S) open hours of 5 am and 1 am) would create a four hour overlap for S/A's. This overlap would have to be paid at time-and-a-half to the AM and PM clerks PLUS you'd have to pay them extra OT (on top of the OT already earned) to shut down or open up the station. Then late PM and early AM T/O's would have to be paid extra to layup and putin shuttles. You'd have to keep the Dispatcher and Tower Operator at Rock Park to operate the South Channel Bridge, so you'd actually lose productivity savings because now they wouldn't have to work as hard...no savings there. Then you'd have to pay Bus Operators for overnight service plus fuel and maintenance costs...which means that, overall, it would wind up being more expensive to shut down the line than it would be to leave it open. You ever hear the saying "cheaper to keep her" when it comes to husband and wife strife? Same here except you'd add the word 'open' to the phrase.

 

This would be the point when W.C. Fields would say, "Get away from me kid, ya bother me."

 

Good point. Maybe i was wrong on ending the Rockaway park (S) overnights and I admit defeat lol.:cry: Granted i been on it only a few times late at evening in recent years visiting my sister in law relatives in the Rockaways.

I hope Zman you being 'objective' and not from a Transit Union view.

 

With that said above, it still bothers me though that on trips reguarly overnights the (S) gets *zero* riders and thought a shuttle bus overnights be a good replacement. How about running the (S) with 1-hour headways to/from Euclid overnights only?

 

So to Zman or Far Rockaway depot any replies? This was nothing personal against those living near the Rock Park stations but other lines imo that deserve 24/7 service like the (5)between Dyre and Bowling Green or the (R) at least between Manhattan and Brooklyn get shortchanged.

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well those lines get the pattern they get cause one, those branches see no other service and two, the setions that is not served during the late night sees service from other lines, Example, the (5) shuttle connects to the (2) at 180 whuch connects to the (4) at 149GC. The (R) gets replaced by the (N) in Man and BK and the (E)(G) in Queens. the RP(S) is the solution to consistent service in the rockaways. The old (H) was a hassle since most overnight riders went to FR. But as stated before, Rock Pk residents would get the short end of the stick if service were to be replaced by bus. and buses within Rockaway dont need to run overnight as long as there are (A) and (S) service.

it was a good recomendation, just not a practical one.

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HR -

 

Believe me, I'm being as objective as possible. If I think that a plan is decent, then I'll give kudos. But if it stinks, then I'm putting a clothespin on my nose and let you know that you should too.

 

Realistically, a 30 minute headway would suffice on the shuttle. That way there would only be a need for one train on the line overnights. But could you imagine just missing the connection at Broad Channel because of track work on the (A) and having to wait 55 minutes for the next shuttle? That would be inhumane. As a passenger though, I would never dream about detailing plans to save money to the TA because you would receive zero credit (while the person who presents YOUR idea gets a fat bonus) and you'd wind up paying the same amount for less service. There's a technical term for someone who does this to themselves: it's called a schmuck. You don't want to be a schmuck and neither do I (though I've come mighty close a few times.) You pay $2.25, you deserve maximum service.

 

I understand that you feel that passengers on Dyre Ave and in Bay Ridge get shortchanged, but those out in Rock Park get the short end of the stick too. I wouldn't call riding a slow (A) local for over an hour then changing at a frigid station in the middle of nowhere for a train which has very little heat something to be envious about.

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HR -

 

Believe me, I'm being as objective as possible. If I think that a plan is decent, then I'll give kudos. But if it stinks, then I'm putting a clothespin on my nose and let you know that you should too.

 

Realistically, a 30 minute headway would suffice on the shuttle. That way there would only be a need for one train on the line overnights. Could you imagine just missing the connection at Broad Channel because of track work on the (A) and having to wait 55 minutes for the next shuttle? That would be inhumane.

 

I understand that you feel that passengers on Dyre Ave and in Bay Ridge get shortchanged, but those out in Rock Park get the short end of the stick too. I wouldn't call riding a slow (A) local for over an hour then changing at a frigid station in the middle of nowhere for a train which has very little heat something to be envious about.

 

True that! Broad Channel is the only station i know of that have passenger activated heaters on the platform. One at the bottom of the Platform stairs and one in a small bus stop-like shelter located close to the OPTO marker.

and i can see the 30-minute headway plan. but some connections between (A) and (S) trains would be missed. Currently overnights SB (A) trains arrive at broad channel and after departing, a Rock PK(S) shows up right after. and NB its the other way around. i think the (S) could be concidered a "feeder route".

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Bay Ridge get shortchanged, but those out in Rock Park get the short end of the stick too.
The (N) local in Brooklyn and the (R) shuttle is sufficient for Bay Ridge during late nights. I'm happy with the service.
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The (N) local in Brooklyn and the (R) shuttle is sufficient for Bay Ridge during late nights. I'm happy with the service.

 

just like rock park riders are happy with a 4-car opto train. except for the weekends during the summer of course! NEED full length trains for that!

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No offense but why run a train that gets zero riders on most trips between 1-5am? Also most of the people living in Rockaway Park stations have cars. You confusing Masrati with Far Rockaway statons that needs 24/7 service and is one of the poorer neighborhoods in all of NYC.

 

Meanwhile that money wasted on the Rock Park shuttle could be used instead to run for instance the (5) 24/7 between Bowling Green and Dyre or the (A) all night between Lefferts and Manhattan.

Under that plan Rock Park would still have either a shuttle bus or expanded Q53 service as well late nights.

 

I used to work a 4PM to midnight shift over the summer of 2008 and took the (A) train home to Beach 67th. I remember one night there was some issue that caused an (A) to stall at the platform at one of the Rockaway stations preventing further (A) trains from reaching Far Rockaway. All trains terminated at Broad Channel, and the shuttle to Rock Park (then the only connection to the Rockaways) was packed to capacity. I was lucky in that I live on Beach 77th St and had a short walk from the Beach 90th St station. All the other riders had to either walk for hours towards Edgemere or Far Rockaway, or spend $10-15 on a local hire car service (No Q22 bus late night). However, I am sure that most were still grateful for the Rock Park shuttle, to avoid getting stuck on Broad Channel all night.

 

While the Rock Park shuttle usually gets few or no riders at all, its utility in a situation that prevents (A) service to Far Rockaway cannot be understated. The shuttle needs to stay if only to ensure a measure of security for Rockaway residents.

 

Its the Q21 and it doesnt run over night. The shuttle bus wouldnt take forever as it would just from from Beach 116st, B105, B98, B90 and to Broadchannel and back. Its a 10- 15 minute bus ride in each direction at night.

 

Yes MTA and LIRR pay electric. Whether on time or not they still get billed. In all of their substations and train stations there are Con-Ed meters.

 

Q21 only runs to Beach 95th St before crossing the Cross Bay Bridge, and runs less frequently than Q22. It would make more sense for the Q22 to run all night to provide Rock Park service (it could terminate at B116th instead of Roxbury-B169th). Then you could perhaps think about reducing or eliminating shuttle service and forcing Rock Park residents to take the (A) to Beach 67th and transferring to the Q22, though pretty much everyone is against the idea of cutting the shuttle.

 

In this case, there's only one thing to do. Before I'd go cutting other people's subway service, I'd do a test study. I'd go to the line myself during the nights and see exactly how the ridership is. Only after I do that would I think about cutting this (S) service.

 

As of right now, no, I don't think the service should be cut.

 

What if you encountered a situation like the one described above? That would ruin your data. Or perhaps you would realize the value of the shuttle then. Lots of empty shuttles would lead to a false belief of its uselessness.

 

Again this is not an insult against people on Rock Park line but others lines like the (5) which would get much more riders overnight than this ever will, does not have full time 24/7 service? And under my proposal the riders during the winter would wait at a safe station with 'heat' at Broad Channel until the Q53 or shuttle bus arrives.

 

Running empty (S) is a waste. A better compromise besides the 'shuttle bus/Expanded Q22 and Q53 service idea is running the Rock Park every hour but the current set up from 1-5am is a waste of taxpayer monies.

 

The riders going to Rock Park stations already wait in cold and sometimes snow connecting to the (S)in outdoor and cold Broad Channel so not a great excuse.

 

The only change I could advocate is perhaps reducing the shuttle to 2-car trains (like the Staten Island Railroad does with its R44s at night). Eliminating altogether, or a 1 hour headway, is too drastic.

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.7; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

well those lines get the pattern they get cause one, those branches see no other service and two, the setions that is not served during the late night sees service from other lines, Example, the (5) shuttle connects to the (2) at 180 whuch connects to the (4) at 149GC. The (R) gets replaced by the (N) in Man and BK and the (E)(G) in Queens. the RP(S) is the solution to consistent service in the rockaways. The old (H) was a hassle since most overnight riders went to FR. But as stated before, Rock Pk residents would get the short end of the stick if service were to be replaced by bus. and buses within Rockaway dont need to run overnight as long as there are (A) and (S) service.

it was a good recomendation, just not a practical one.

 

The (5) shuttle needs to go, im sorry. I attempted to do that mess about 5 times since school ended and not once did the trains line up. The S/b (2) hits E180 before the (5) gets there so you have to wait 20 mins for the next one. It's also adds time to people commute having the (4) run local then having to get off at 149 wait for the (2), then having to get off again at 180 st and wait for the (5) to leave N/b. I know itd cost more money but the (5) running Dyre-Brooklyn Bridge LCL and the (4) running Exp all times would be an improvement.

 

As for the (R), the (G) is a horrible replacement late nights or assistant on weekends. Rarely does it make it past Court Sq leaving huge gaps in local QB Service and when it does grace QB with it's presence, those 4 cars aren't cutting it.

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What if you encountered a situation like the one described above. That would ruin your data. Or perhaps you would realize the value of the shuttle then. Lots of empty shuttles would lead to a false belief of its uselessness.

 

 

I would know that the situation is irregular, because I'd probably have to take the (A) train to the shuttle anyway, and try again when things are normal. But, yeah, then I'd realize that the shuttle is very useful for things like that. I don't know if it gets low to no ridership overnight, that's why I'd go out there. Even if it did, I'd probably still not want to cut it.

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The only change I could advocate is perhaps reducing the shuttle to 2-car trains (like the Staten Island Railroad does with its R44s at night). Eliminating altogether, or a 1 hour headway, is too drastic.

 

 

Unfortunately there are too many third rail problems out in the Rockaways for that, especially in the relay track at Broad Channel. We've even had four car gaps on that track even though all four were "on the rail."

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.7; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

As for the (R), the (G) is a horrible replacement late nights or assistant on weekends. Rarely does it make it past Court Sq leaving huge gaps in local QB Service and when it does grace QB with it's presence, those 4 cars aren't cutting it.

 

Doesn't the (E) run local along Queens Blvd. late night along with (G)? It's been years since I've rode the QB local late night.

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who actually goes to the Rockaways during off-season? everytime i go there during the winter time, it is empty. it is only during the summer that i see people flock to the beaches and most Rockaway residents commute by car or the LIRR, which believe me, would get you to Manhattan much faster than the (A) train. maybe they should just shut down the entire Rockaway Line except during the summer. i feel alone there sometimes.

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who actually goes to the Rockaways during off-season?

 

Oh, I don't know, I guess people who actually LIVE THERE?!?!?

 

and most Rockaway residents commute by car or the LIRR, which believe me, would get you to Manhattan much faster than the (A) train.

 

The LIRR only helps those who live in the Far Rockaway area and not in areas like Arverne, Edgemere, or Rockaway Park.

 

What's the difference between the two? During middays, the LIRR takes 56 minutes to get to Penn Station. The (A)? 11 minutes more and for $4.50 less. The only time the LIRR is worth taking is during the weekends when the (A) is crippled by track work.

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