(7) Vs. (L)

[DX Local Train]

As every one knows the and are both single lines.

the however has a express ... why is it not possable for a <L> to run express with the and if it is why havent they done it yet?

[Joe]

The Flushing Line is three tracks N/O Queensboro Plaza. The Canarsie Line is two tracks for its entire length save for a third track S/O Myrtle Ave (IIRC).

[DX Local Train]

why didnt they add a third Rail I mean If theres ever a proble on a L train Then The Whole Like Is Messed Up

[Y2Julio]

why didnt they add a third Rail I mean If theres ever a proble on a L train Then The Whole Like Is Messed Up

Because they simply didn't. This discussion is simply pointless but to add to one's post count.

[R44 5278]

Note also that the 7 was built by IRT, while the L was built by BMT/BRT. For the most part, I consider the Eastern Division to be least considered when built. That section east of Broadway Jct should've had a center track when it was actually feasible.

[Y2Julio]

Note also that the 7 was built by IRT, while the L was built by BMT/BRT. For the most part, I consider the Eastern Division to be least considered when built. That section east of Broadway Jct should've had a center track when it was actually feasible.

The wasn't built by the BMT/BRT. It was a steam railroad that ran from Canarsie pier to East New York.

[R44 5278]

 

The wasn't built by the BMT/BRT. It was a steam railroad that ran from Canarsie pier to East New York.

Wait, you said just to East NY? Didn't BRT build that tunnel portion to Manhattan?

[Y2Julio]

Wait, you said just to East NY? Didn't BRT build that tunnel portion to Manhattan?

# 19th Century - 1906: Operated as a steam railroad between Canarsie Pier and East New York

# 1906: Opened for BRT service between Rockaway Parkway and Williamsburg, via the Broadway El.

# 1908: Through train service to Canarsie Pier begins.

# ca. 1916: Atlantic Avenue station rebuilt under Dual Contracts

# 1920: Through subway service to Canarsie Pier ends; track loop is added at Rockaway Parkway and service to Canarsie Pier is replaced by trolley. Connection to Rockaway Parkway/Wilson Avenue trolley line is added.

# 1924: First underground segment opens, between 6th Avenue- 14th Street and Montrose Avenue

# 1928: Second underground segment opens, between Montrose Avenue and Broadway Junction. Connection to Atlantic Avenue established. Canarsie Line assumes its current shape.

# 1931: Third and final underground segment is opened, to 8th Avenue and 14th Street.

# 1942: Trolley service via the East 95th/East 96th Street right-of-way ends, and the track is abandoned. The trolley line begins operation to Rockaway Pier via Rockaway Parkway.

# 1951: Trolley service to Canarsie Pier ends, and is replaced by the B42 bus.

# 1956: East end of Fulton El is closed.

# 1963: New Lots Avenue station burns. Reopened in 1964.

# 1967: Route designation "LL" is adopted.

# 1968: Through service between Atlantic Avenue and Eastern Parkway ends.

# 1969: First air-conditioned cars (R-42) arrive. BMT standards are retired and replaced with R-7 and R-9 cars

# 1977: Last of the R-7/R-9 cars are retired. R-16 cars take over.

# 1983: Grade crossing at E.105th Street eliminated. Station entrance and platform are rebuilt.

# 1984: Rebuilding of Rockaway Parkway station is completed.

# 1985: Route designation "LL" is changed to "L", sign color changed from black to grey.

[N-Trizzy2609]

The should've ran skip stop service, idk why it didnt.

[mark1447]

The should've ran skip stop service, idk why it didnt.

 

Ya but that can change the way the is today.. possibly wouldn't improve much but just help ease the amount of people between trains.

________________________________

 

BTW this is in the wrong forum, it should be in the General Subway forum as it includes IRT..

[Y2Julio]

The should've ran skip stop service, idk why it didnt.

 

The does have skip stop service it's just not official

[Maserati7200]

The wasn't built by the BMT/BRT. It was a steam railroad that ran from Canarsie pier to East New York.

 

Well you're partially right. It was originally a steam Railroad in the eastern section. But in the 1920's it was upgraded to dual contracts standards by the BMT. R44 is right, the section from 6th Avenue to Bushwhick-Aberdeen was indeed built by the BMT from 1924-1928. 8th Avenue was built by the city in 1931.

 

the 7 was built by IRT

 

Thats not entirely true. The Flushing and Astoria were joint projects (as per the dual contracts of 1913) by both the BMT and IRT. The deal was that the BMT would run its IRT-sized rebuilt el cars down both the astoria and the Flushing to Queens Boro Plaza where passengers could transfer to the BMT subway line entering Manhattan via the 60th street tunnel. QBP used to have 8 tracks and was a big terminal. The IRT would run its cars from the Flushing or Astoria to Times Square. The Flushing line could handle BMT sized trains, but the platforms have to be shaved back. Why doesn't it run BMT sized trains? The Steinway tubes are too narrow.

[MTR Admiralty]

why didnt they add a third Rail I mean If theres ever a proble on a L train Then The Whole Like Is Messed Up

LMFAO! The L already has a THIRD RAIL! Otherwise, how else would the trains run? STEAM POWER????? :cool:

For the most part, I consider the Eastern Division to be least considered when built. That section east of Broadway Jct should've had a center track when it was actually feasible.

Not exactly, if you studied your subway history, the Eastern division was heavily considered. Consider this, they built a giant loop around East New York in 1903. Williamsburg was a hot spot for the first few decades of the last century. When "white flight" hit the Eastern Brooklyn neighbourhoods, neglect was evident amongst these lines.

The should've ran skip stop service, idk why it didnt.

It does battery runs sometimes, so that's skip stop service.

Thats not entirely true. The Flushing and Astoria were joint projects (as per the dual contracts of 1913) by both the BMT and IRT. The deal was that the BMT would run its IRT-sized rebuilt el cars down both the astoria and the Flushing to Queens Boro Plaza where passengers could transfer to the BMT subway line entering Manhattan via the 60th street tunnel. QBP used to have 8 tracks and was a big terminal. The IRT would run its cars from the Flushing or Astoria to Times Square. The Flushing line could handle BMT sized trains, but the platforms have to be shaved back. Why doesn't it run BMT sized trains? The Steinway tubes are too narrow.

Not exactly. The lines from Queensboro Plaza to either Astoria or Flushing were built under the Dual Contracts as IRT lines, but were wide enough to operate BRT/BMT stock. This allows the IRT to share the tracks on each on the lines. And in order to streamline efficiency, the BMT had separate shuttles running side by side with the IRT. They shuttles were Q cars, not the Standards or other subway stock. That explains the 8 track terminal.

The Steinway tunnels were originally built by Steinway as trolley tunnels for cars connecting Grand Central with Steinway. They feature high ceilings for the power lines. The plan almost worked out, but the business closed for some reason. Belmont took over and used it as a subway tunnel. And it worked for him, because his subway cars could fit perfectly, while the BRT cars would never fit. The connector line between QBP and the portal was built to IRT specs, IIRC.

[Maserati7200]

LMFAO! The L already has a THIRD RAIL! Otherwise, how else would the trains run? STEAM POWER????? :cool:

 

Not exactly, if you studied your subway history, the Eastern division was heavily considered. Consider this, they built a giant loop around East New York in 1903. Williamsburg was a hot spot for the first few decades of the last century. When "white flight" hit the Eastern Brooklyn neighbourhoods, neglect was evident amongst these lines.

 

It does battery runs sometimes, so that's skip stop service.

 

Not exactly. The lines from Queensboro Plaza to either Astoria or Flushing were built under the Dual Contracts as IRT lines, but were wide enough to operate BRT/BMT stock. This allows the IRT to share the tracks on each on the lines. And in order to streamline efficiency, the BMT had separate shuttles running side by side with the IRT. They shuttles were Q cars, not the Standards or other subway stock. That explains the 8 track terminal.

The Steinway tunnels were originally built by Steinway as trolley tunnels for cars connecting Grand Central with Steinway. They feature high ceilings for the power lines. The plan almost worked out, but the business closed for some reason. Belmont took over and used it as a subway tunnel. And it worked for him, because his subway cars could fit perfectly, while the BRT cars would never fit.

 

Ah. I see.

 

T

The connector line between QBP and the portal was built to IRT specs, IIRC.

 

Isn't that a violation of the dual contracts? I think all Dual contract lines had to have accommodations for BMT-sized trains

[DX Local Train]

Okay... But If Theres Lets Per say That a Train Stops Running Cause Some one Pulled The Emergency Brake Then Every Single L train Would Be Stuck Right?

[Maserati7200]

Okay... But If Theres Lets Per say That a Train Stops Running Cause Some one Pulled The Emergency Brake Then Every Single L train Would Be Stuck Right?

 

Yeah basically. That's why a third track is helpful even if your not going to use it for express service.

[Y2Julio]

Okay... But If Theres Lets Per say That a Train Stops Running Cause Some one Pulled The Emergency Brake Then Every Single L train Would Be Stuck Right?

Depends where. There is a 3rd track by Myrtle in the direction of Canarsie that can has been used before to turn trains back into Manhattan. They've also used the track connection at Broadway Junction to turn back trains.

[SubwayGuy]

LMFAO! The L already has a THIRD RAIL! Otherwise, how else would the trains run? STEAM POWER????? :cool:

 

 

I think it's safe to say he meant a third track

[MTR Admiralty]

Ah. I see.

 

T

 

Isn't that a violation of the dual contracts? I think all Dual contract lines had to have accommodations for BMT-sized trains

Well it's about logic, IMO. There are no turn tracks or diamond crossovers that I know of between the Steinway portal and QBP. If a BMT train happens to stray in, where would it turn before it reaches the tunnel? QBP has adequate turning facilities, so it does make sense in a way to have that stretch of track IRT only (even though it could be a violation).

[INDman]

Okay... But If Theres Lets Per say That a Train Stops Running Cause Some one Pulled The Emergency Brake Then Every Single L train Would Be Stuck Right?

RCC would get on the radio and tell every train on the to get to a station and "STOP AND STAY" which is what they do and every other line in the city unless the delay lasts longer then 20 minutes or so. If something worse like a 12-9 or derailment happened, the response would be dictated by the location of the incident.

[SubwayGuy]

Well it's about logic, IMO. There are no turn tracks or diamond crossovers that I know of between the Steinway portal and QBP. If a BMT train happens to stray in, where would it turn before it reaches the tunnel? QBP has adequate turning facilities, so it does make sense in a way to have that stretch of track IRT only (even though it could be a violation).

 

There is a diamond cross over right as the train leaves Hunterspoint Ave and comes outside.

 

However I don't believe it's possible for a BMT train to take the wrong lineup and wind up on A Div tracks headed towards the Steinway Tubes because I don't recall there being a switch at QBP on the inbound track. By design the only way a train can take a wrong lineup is outbound or wrong railing.

 

Side Note: B Division trains are allowed to use A Div trackage heading towards 33rd Rawson but ONLY if they are going to use the middle track (some odd relay procedures may do this - perhaps if it's late at night and something laid down over the switches south of 39th on Astoria), but they are not allowed to accept a lineup to the IRT that would put them on a local track.

[INDman]

Depends where. There is a 3rd track by Myrtle in the direction of Canarsie that can has been used before to turn trains back into Manhattan. They've also used the track connection at Broadway Junction to turn back trains.

 

Also it would be a very difficult line to add a 3rd track to. Just look at Wilson Ave where the station is on 2 different levels and near New Lots Ave, the line is next to the LIRR line. I really do no think it would be worth the trouble to add a 3rd track the whole length of the line or even part of it.

[SubwayGuy]

RCC would get on the radio and tell every train on the to get to a station and "STOP AND STAY" which is what they do and every other line in the city unless the delay lasts longer then 20 minutes or so. If something worse like a 12-9 or derailment happened, the response would be dictated by the location of the incident.

 

In that case I would guess stop and stay and issue block tickets for *ACK!* the bus

[INDman]

In that case I would guess stop and stay and issue block tickets for *ACK!* the bus

 

First you talk about the toy trains (IRT) and now buses, what is the world coming to?

[SubwayGuy]

First you talk about the toy trains (IRT) and now buses, what is the world coming to?