R62A 1991 Posted July 16, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 16, 2009 Sorry if this was posted before, but I have a question about this G.O.: Free shuttle buses and shuttle trains replace service between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and the Rockaways Weekend, 5:30 AM to 10 PM Sat and Sun, Jul 18 - 19 • Transfer between the Far Rockaway or Rockaway Park shuttle bus and the train at Howard Beach. • Far Rockaway shuttle buses run non-stop between Howard Beach and Far Rockaway. • Rockaway Park shuttle buses run between Howard Beach and Rockaway Park, with a stop at Broad Channel. At Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park, transfer to a shuttle train that will make all stops between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park: Beach 25, Beach 36, Beach 44, Beach 60, Beach 67, Beach 90, Beach 98, and Beach 105 Sts. To travel to Brooklyn and Manhattan • Take the shuttle train to Rockaway Park or Far Rockaway and transfer to a shuttle bus to Howard Beach for train service. • From Broad Channel, take a shuttle bus to Howard Beach for train service. Note: Rockaway Park Shuttle suspended during this time Here's my question. Why do they run the buses from Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park? Wouldn't it make more sense to run the buses from Beach 67th & Beach 90th Sts (or maybe only Beach 67th St) because it's closer to the bridge? I'm not suggesting they do that, because I'm sure they have a reason for running them from the terminals that I'm probably overlooking, I'd just like to know why. Anyway, be on the lookout for this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted July 16, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 16, 2009 They might just be doing that to allow passangers at Rockaway to grab the Bus instead of going to the those stations for a shuttle bus.. Then cross over Cross Bay bridge.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted July 16, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 16, 2009 Sorry if this was posted before, but I have a question about this G.O.: Free shuttle buses and shuttle trains replace service between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and the Rockaways Weekend, 5:30 AM to 10 PM Sat and Sun, Jul 18 - 19 • Transfer between the Far Rockaway or Rockaway Park shuttle bus and the train at Howard Beach. • Far Rockaway shuttle buses run non-stop between Howard Beach and Far Rockaway. • Rockaway Park shuttle buses run between Howard Beach and Rockaway Park, with a stop at Broad Channel. At Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park, transfer to a shuttle train that will make all stops between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park: Beach 25, Beach 36, Beach 44, Beach 60, Beach 67, Beach 90, Beach 98, and Beach 105 Sts. To travel to Brooklyn and Manhattan • Take the shuttle train to Rockaway Park or Far Rockaway and transfer to a shuttle bus to Howard Beach for train service. • From Broad Channel, take a shuttle bus to Howard Beach for train service. Note: Rockaway Park Shuttle suspended during this time Here's my question. Why do they run the buses from Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park? Wouldn't it make more sense to run the buses from Beach 67th & Beach 90th Sts (or maybe only Beach 67th St) because it's closer to the bridge? I'm not suggesting they do that, because I'm sure they have a reason for running them from the terminals that I'm probably overlooking, I'd just like to know why. Anyway, be on the lookout for this weekend. From my experience, Rockaway Park Local Bus B/O drops them off near Beach 98th, 105th, 116th Sts. Far Rockaway Non-Stop Express Shuttle Bus travels through Nassau County, which is easy way for bus to go through. They both leave from Howard Beach Long Term Parking Lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted July 16, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 16, 2009 From my experience, Rockaway Park Local Bus B/O drops them off near Beach 98th, 105th, 116th Sts. Far Rockaway Non-Stop Express Shuttle Bus travels through Nassau County, which is easy way for bus to go through. They both leave from Howard Beach Long Term Parking Lot. why go via LI if they can just take the Cross Bay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qns Blvd Dom Posted July 16, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 16, 2009 why go via LI if they can just take the Cross Bay? From Howard Beach to Far Rockaway via Cross Bay is longer then via Nassau County! It only takes about 15-20 Mins on the Far Rockaway A Express Bus via Nassau Expressway aka NYS 878 as that highway is pretty much right there and you spend majority of the time on the highway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R62A 1991 Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted July 16, 2009 From Howard Beach to Far Rockaway via Cross Bay is longer then via Nassau County! It only takes about 15-20 Mins on the Far Rockaway A Express Bus via Nassau Expressway aka NYS 878 as that highway is pretty much right there and you spend majority of the time on the highway! That's the reason I'm looking for. I thought it would be faster from Beach 67th to Howard Beach via Cross Bay, but I guess I was wrong. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted July 16, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 16, 2009 Far Rockaway non-stop shuttle bus parells Q113 LTD pass. Rockaway Park Bus has stop at Beach 101st St/Rockaway Freeway, all nearby stations. I thought it only stop at Rockaway Park, but I guess shuttle bus was trying to make easy for commuters in the Rockaways. Rockaway train use Hammels Wyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt91 Posted July 17, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 17, 2009 Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16) http://advisory.mtanyct.info/pdf_files/ABusesHowardBeach2Rockaways.pdf Look at the second page: A bus that stops at only HB JFK, Broad Channel, and Rock Pk, A nonstop bus b/t HB and Far Rock, and a train b/t Rock Pk and Far Rock making all stops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted July 17, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 17, 2009 Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16) http://advisory.mtanyct.info/pdf_files/ABusesHowardBeach2Rockaways.pdf Look at the second page: A bus that stops at only HB JFK, Broad Channel, and Rock Pk, A nonstop bus b/t HB and Far Rock, and a train b/t Rock Pk and Far Rock making all stops I took local Rockaway Park Bus on different day on G.O. Even thought that says, bus operator drop off the Rockaway passengers near the Beach 98th, Beach 105th Sts, properly make easy for passenger to switch to train to Far Rockaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted July 19, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 19, 2009 um, i beleive i can answer this one, i just took it today and everytime they do this for years before about 2 years ago, this GO went as follows: FR bound A trains terminate at JFK. At Rockaway Blvd passengers would board shuttle buses that traveled on X-bay Bl and stopped on Noel Rd(Broad CHannel) and then to B98th st. two major problems. 1) traffic congestion not only at Rockaway Blvd but also looping buses around at B98th ST. Now they put 2 shuttle bus routes from JFK. One to RP along the conduit to X bay bl and stopping at Broad channel before going non stop to B116st. The second bus goes from JFK to Mott ave non stop. now ive had problems with the far rock bus due to Belt Pkwy/Conduit traffic being bumper to bumper usually during the afternoons. Now RP buses do not stop at 105,98 nor 90th st stations. passengers get off at 116 and board trains which make all stops between 116 and Mott ave. The ratio of FR to RP buses is usually around 5 to 1, but being how this is a RARE summer GO in Rockaway, they are running more Rock Pk buses to accomidate Beach-goers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted July 19, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 19, 2009 From Howard Beach to Far Rockaway via Cross Bay is longer then via Nassau County! It only takes about 15-20 Mins on the Far Rockaway A Express Bus via Nassau Expressway aka NYS 878 as that highway is pretty much right there and you spend majority of the time on the highway! No it doesn't; it takes far longer than 15-20 minutes. I live in the Rockaways and had to travel to Manhattan both yesterday and today. Yesterday, I reached Beach 67th St station at 2:32pm, immediately got on the shuttle to Far Rockaway, getting there at 2:41pm. The shuttle bus started from Mott Av at 2:45pm and reached Howard Beach at 3:15pm, exactly 30 minutes later. The train didn't start until 3:25pm. Effectively I spent 53 minutes getting to Howard Beach which is a far cry from the short times you mention. On my return, I chose the Rockaway Park shuttle. This started at Howard Beach at 7:31pm, but was held at a red light just outside the JFK parking lot for nearly 3.5 to 4 minutes. It reached Beach 116th St at 8:04pm, or 33 minutes. Taking 3 minutes off the time for being held at JFK, it too comes to 30 minutes. Neither service is worse than the other. It is also true that the Far Rockaway shuttle would need an additional 8-10 minutes if it went via Cross Bay Boulevard. (The Q22 running from Beach 21st to Beach 67th would take longer, but then it makes stops as frequent as every 2 blocks). However, the 15-20 minute estimate is way off. (Today I returned on the Far Rock shuttle bus, and it too took exactly 30 minutes. I used the Q53 in the morning, which took 24 minutes to get from B96th to Rockaway Blvd, but I spent a long time walking to B96th (from B77th) as no Q22 showed up. Thus no alternatives were better than any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted July 19, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 19, 2009 Rockaway Park Bus has stop at Beach 101st St/Rockaway Freeway, all nearby stations. I thought it only stop at Rockaway Park, but I guess shuttle bus was trying to make easy for commuters in the Rockaways. Rockaway train use Hammels Wyes. No it doesn't either. I was on the shuttle bus yesterday. One passenger did manage to convince the operator to let him off (not sure why) around 98th St (but not near the station), after hitting the Stop Request tape and having a talk with the operator. The driver made it clear that was an exception. Everyone else got off at B116th and got on the Rock Park to Far Rock , or the Q22. No stops were made at 90th, 98th or 105th St stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted July 19, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 19, 2009 Here's my question. Why do they run the buses from Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park? Wouldn't it make more sense to run the buses from Beach 67th & Beach 90th Sts (or maybe only Beach 67th St) because it's closer to the bridge? I'm not suggesting they do that, because I'm sure they have a reason for running them from the terminals that I'm probably overlooking, I'd just like to know why. Anyway, be on the lookout for this weekend. That's what I thought too. Cross Bay Bridge connects to the Rockaways at Beach 95th St. The nearest subway stop is Beach 98th St. The shuttle from Rock Park takes 30 minutes to get to Howard Beach, so from Beach 98th it would be around 25-26 minutes. I suppose the did not want to rile the majority of the passengers, since Beach 98th and 105th are the two least used stations in the Rockaways. Getting passengers from all the stations on the Far Rockaway branch to go to B98th, either by bus or train, would add up to 15 minutes to their journey time to Howard Beach (5-6 minutes for Rock Park riders). As previously mentioned, the shuttle bus from Far Rockaway goes through Nassau County, also taking 30 minutes to get to Howard Beach. The routes seemed to have been decided so as not to give either branch an advantage. I suppose the shuttle train could have run to Beach 67th, as this might have evened out the time difference between the two branches if both branches sent their shuttles via Cross Bay Blvd. However, I guess its not exactly common for shuttles to discharge their passengers at a station in the middle of the line. Getting people to transfer at the terminals prevented empty running of the shuttles back to the terminals from Beach 67th (or 98th, or wherever). If Beach 67th St was chosen as the connecting point for the shuttle bus to Howard Beach, the shuttle train would have to run empty back to Far Rockaway, except for the few people who are actually travelling within the Rockaways (completing their journey at one of the stations along the line). From my experience, Rockaway Park Local Bus B/O drops them off near Beach 98th, 105th, 116th Sts. Far Rockaway Non-Stop Express Shuttle Bus travels through Nassau County, which is easy way for bus to go through. They both leave from Howard Beach Long Term Parking Lot. That happens only when there are trains from Far Rock or Rock Park to Howard Beach and onwards, but not at the stations along the line (Beach 25th, 36th, 44th, 60th, 67th, 90th, 98th, 105th). This happens when they are doing track work in the Rockaways. This weekends G.O. was necessitated by track work at Broad Channel, thus, a shuttle train could run in the Rockaways, but not to the other side of Jamaica Bay (i.e. not between Far Rock/Rock Park and Broad Channel and onwards). The last time this situation happened was May 10th-11th, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted July 19, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 19, 2009 That's what I thought too. Cross Bay Bridge connects to the Rockaways at Beach 95th St. The nearest subway stop is Beach 98th St. The shuttle from Rock Park takes 30 minutes to get to Howard Beach, so from Beach 98th it would be around 25-26 minutes. I suppose the did not want to rile the majority of the passengers, since Beach 98th and 105th are the two least used stations in the Rockaways. Getting passengers from all the stations on the Far Rockaway branch to go to B98th, either by bus or train, would add up to 15 minutes to their journey time to Howard Beach (5-6 minutes for Rock Park riders). As previously mentioned, the shuttle bus from Far Rockaway goes through Nassau County, also taking 30 minutes to get to Howard Beach. The routes seemed to have been decided so as not to give either branch an advantage. I suppose the shuttle train could have run to Beach 67th, as this might have evened out the time difference between the two branches if both branches sent their shuttles via Cross Bay Blvd. However, I guess its not exactly common for shuttles to discharge their passengers at a station in the middle of the line. Getting people to transfer at the terminals prevented empty running of the shuttles back to the terminals from Beach 67th (or 98th, or wherever). If Beach 67th St was chosen as the connecting point for the shuttle bus to Howard Beach, the shuttle train would have to run empty back to Far Rockaway, except for the few people who are actually travelling within the Rockaways (completing their journey at one of the stations along the line). That happens only when there are trains from Far Rock or Rock Park to Howard Beach and onwards, but not at the stations along the line (Beach 25th, 36th, 44th, 60th, 67th, 90th, 98th, 105th). This happens when they are doing track work in the Rockaways. This weekends G.O. was necessitated by track work at Broad Channel, thus, a shuttle train could run in the Rockaways, but not to the other side of Jamaica Bay (i.e. not between Far Rock/Rock Park and Broad Channel and onwards). The last time this situation happened was May 10th-11th, by the way. It did happen on that G.O. when I took it last and few year agos. After I took express shuttle bus to Far Rockaway, for train making all stops to Rockaway Park, local Bus made all station stops to Beach 98th St, then non-stop to Broad Channel. Last few years had same experience. My Rockaway Park Bus local stop near Beach 98th, Beach 105th, when there was operating bet. Rockaway Park & Far Rockaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted July 20, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 20, 2009 It did happen on that G.O. when I took it last and few year agos.After I took express shuttle bus to Far Rockaway, for train making all stops to Rockaway Park, local Bus made all station stops to Beach 98th St, then non-stop to Broad Channel. Last few years had same experience. My Rockaway Park Bus local stop near Beach 98th, Beach 105th, when there was operating bet. Rockaway Park & Far Rockaway. If there was an operating on the track between Rock Park and Far Rock, I do not see who would use it if they could just stay on the shuttle bus. I guess the realized the redundancy of their ways and cut the bus service that made stops in the intermediate stations and ran them from the terminals only. Like I said before, it is pointless to run a shuttle train that discharges most of its passengers at a way station and runs empty to the terminal. The current back and forth shuttle ensures it is always picking people up at the intermediate stations and dropping them off at the terminals and vice versa, thus avoiding running empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted July 20, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 20, 2009 Have they ever used the LIRR in such a service interruption, I woulda guessed if they ran the bus there, people still have a train to the airport and even brooklyn if it runs along the Brooklyn branch from the Far Rockaway one, and they can get the E and J/Z from Jamaica Station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted July 20, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 20, 2009 Have they ever used the LIRR in such a service interruption, I woulda guessed if they ran the bus there, people still have a train to the airport and even brooklyn if it runs along the Brooklyn branch from the Far Rockaway one, and they can get the E and J/Z from Jamaica Station. Not as far as I know. LIRR fares from Far Rockaway to Penn Station is at least $6.75 off-peak hours. I am not sure who would foot the bill. (Off-peak fares from Far Rock to Jamaica is $4.50, though). Individual passengers are free to take the LIRR if they want to, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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