Quesion About ROW!

[mark1447]

Since id unno where to post it, guess here. I just wanna make sure something, does Right-Of-Way (ROW) means taking over land, such as rail?

 

Found the definition here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=Mad&defl=en&q=define:right+of+way&ei=-qNvSoWzN422M5SV1dYI&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&cts=1248830457974

the privilege of someone to pass over land belonging to someone else

 

Thx!

[Y2Julio]

A right-of-way is a strip of land that is granted – through an easement or other mechanism – for transportation purposes, such as for a rail line or highway. A right-of-way is reserved for the purposes of maintenance or expansion of existing services with the right-of-way. In the case of an easement, it may revert to its original owners if the facility is abandoned.

 

In the United States, railroad rights-of-way are considered private property by the respective railroad owners and by applicable state laws. Most U.S. railroads employ their own police forces, who can arrest and prosecute trespassers found on their rights-of-way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-of-way_(transportation)

[mark1447]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-of-way_(transportation)

 

i read it, but its confusing

[Y2Julio]

I think you are confusing eminent domain with right-of-way. They are two different things. Eminent domain is where the Govt can seize private property for public use.

[metsfan]

Basically a Right Of Way is the right of a transportation structure (rail tracks in this instance) to be build on below through or above existing property. In the instance of the subway, the ROW is in an open cut, elevated, or subterranean. As for amtrak, their national rail network has many types of structures, huge bridges, long, long tunnels through mountains and so on, a lot owned by someone else usually freight companies. In its simplest and earliest terms, it allows rails to be laid on land possibly owned by someone else, the land is expressly used for railroad activity, and not much else, there is actually a lot of restrictions for various reasons some obvious some not. Restaurants, bars, pubs, small stores etc are usually welcome at or near stations, but the ROW needs to be open, unobstructed, allowing access to the tracks, though in some cases a Hy-Rail vehicle is required to access the ROW due to private land with restricted access being on either side.

 

Where roads cross tracks, the crossing is usually maintained by the railroad, sometimes there is a tax benefit for this, it really depends on the local municipality.

 

Some ROW are elevated, and the footprint of the support structure are part of the ROW, as in the beam or whatnot is the ROW, in ome cases the ROW is using Air Rights, but again this is depending on local agreements, sometimes there are special conditions on building under an elevated line, sometimes it is prohibited, sometimes it is welcomed, it really varies a lot.

 

- A

[Maserati7200]

Basically a Right Of Way is the right of a transportation structure (rail tracks in this instance) to be build on below through or above existing property. In the instance of the subway, the ROW is in an open cut, elevated, or subterranean. As for amtrak, their national rail network has many types of structures, huge bridges, long, long tunnels through mountains and so on, a lot owned by someone else usually freight companies. In its simplest and earliest terms, it allows rails to be laid on land possibly owned by someone else, the land is expressly used for railroad activity, and not much else, there is actually a lot of restrictions for various reasons some obvious some not. Restaurants, bars, pubs, small stores etc are usually welcome at or near stations, but the ROW needs to be open, unobstructed, allowing access to the tracks, though in some cases a Hy-Rail vehicle is required to access the ROW due to private land with restricted access being on either side.

 

Where roads cross tracks, the crossing is usually maintained by the railroad, sometimes there is a tax benefit for this, it really depends on the local municipality.

 

Some ROW are elevated, and the footprint of the support structure are part of the ROW, as in the beam or whatnot is the ROW, in ome cases the ROW is using Air Rights, but again this is depending on local agreements, sometimes there are special conditions on building under an elevated line, sometimes it is prohibited, sometimes it is welcomed, it really varies a lot.

 

- A

 

So, technically, the land on the Brighton Line belongs to the residents on East 15th and East 16th street? I thought it was owned by the city

[metsfan]

So, technically, the land on the Brighton Line belongs to the residents on East 15th and East 16th street? I thought it was owned by the city

 

I am not really a subway buff so i'm not sure what the brighton line is. The ROW is property of the in this case, meaning the track & related supporting structures be it signals drain pipes tressles tunnels etc. Everything next to or outside of the ROW is owned by someone else. For example, when the IRT built its line through the basement of the NY times building, the NY times gave up its ownership of the physical space needed to move the trains through. It's kid of a hard concept to picture mentally.

 

My bed sits on my floor, it is my ROW, however i do not own this house, so the floor is not the ROW, nor are the walls that touch the bed, even though the bed is right up against the wall. Hope that helps!

 

- A

[Maserati7200]

I am not really a subway buff so i'm not sure what the brighton line is. The ROW is property of the in this case, meaning the track & related supporting structures be it signals drain pipes tressles tunnels etc. Everything next to or outside of the ROW is owned by someone else. For example, when the IRT built its line through the basement of the NY times building, the NY times gave up its ownership of the physical space needed to move the trains through. It's kid of a hard concept to picture mentally.

 

My bed sits on my floor, it is my ROW, however i do not own this house, so the floor is not the ROW, nor are the walls that touch the bed, even though the bed is right up against the wall. Hope that helps!

 

- A

 

Okay. I've seen you're youtube videos, you've been on the Brighton line. It's the line where the ( goes to Brighton Beach

[mark1447]

I think you are confusing eminent domain with right-of-way. They are two different things. Eminent domain is where the Govt can seize private property for public use.

 

No.. i read the Transport version which wss very confusing..

 

@Andy- So you are saying is like the Metro North, Harlem Line, which was apart of the NY Central way before, so when the Conrail(I think) took over it and then the in the 80s the ROW is that the build over it with the current Harlem line?

[Fred G]

In RR terms, think of ROW as the property that a railroad owns to operate on. Since most railroads are government subsidized it's technically not private property so they can't just sell it like say, a homeowner would sell his house. It's still treated like a parcel of land, with ROW lines being the property boundary lines.

 

As others have stated, eminent domain is the vehicle by which a government can take land from private landowners (for a fair price) and use it for the public good. In fact the portion of land used is called a "taking". This usually isn't popular, but can be soothed with enough money.

 

When a ROW is abandoned it can just sit there forever unused. It takes a special motion to formally discontinue the ROW after which it disappears, the land going to the adjoining property owners. The words "abandoned" and "discontinued" are sometimes reversed, depending on the locale, where one means formally terminated and the other means simply unused. The Rockaway LIRR north of Liberty Avenue is simply unused but the ROW remains intact.

 

HTH.

[metsfan]

In RR terms, think of ROW as the property that a railroad owns to operate on. Since most railroads are government subsidized it's technically not private property so they can't just sell it like say, a homeowner would sell his house. It's still treated like a parcel of land, with ROW lines being the property boundary lines.

 

As others have stated, eminent domain is the vehicle by which a government can take land from private landowners (for a fair price) and use it for the public good. In fact the portion of land used is called a "taking". This usually isn't popular, but can be soothed with enough money.

 

When a ROW is abandoned it can just sit there forever unused. It takes a special motion to formally discontinue the ROW after which it disappears, the land going to the adjoining property owners. The words "abandoned" and "discontinued" are sometimes reversed, depending on the locale, where one means formally terminated and the other means simply unused. The Rockaway LIRR north of Liberty Avenue is simply unused but the ROW remains intact.

 

HTH.

 

Thanks for the explanation !

 

So with Fred's explanation you can see why so many lines are sitting unused, technically they are still zoned for rail use only.

 

As far as MNRR, it's just land (be it under or over the actual surface) the tracks run through/on, the rails & ties are not original to the system, because they get replaced every so many years, you can see it as lines on a paved road the lines are not 100 years old but the road may be, and time to time they can change the lines as well, same with tracks. They simply renew the tracks to keep them safe & in good state of repair (not falling apart or a secondary hazard).

 

- A

[mark1447]

In RR terms, think of ROW as the property that a railroad owns to operate on. Since most railroads are government subsidized it's technically not private property so they can't just sell it like say, a homeowner would sell his house. It's still treated like a parcel of land, with ROW lines being the property boundary lines.

 

As others have stated, eminent domain is the vehicle by which a government can take land from private landowners (for a fair price) and use it for the public good. In fact the portion of land used is called a "taking". This usually isn't popular, but can be soothed with enough money.

 

When a ROW is abandoned it can just sit there forever unused. It takes a special motion to formally discontinue the ROW after which it disappears, the land going to the adjoining property owners. The words "abandoned" and "discontinued" are sometimes reversed, depending on the locale, where one means formally terminated and the other means simply unused. The Rockaway LIRR north of Liberty Avenue is simply unused but the ROW remains intact.

 

HTH.

 

o ROW would be like, a RR that is owned by the gov't, and even if its still abandoned, its still owned by the gov't(Or who ever owns it?)

[metsfan]

o ROW would be like, a RR that is owned by the gov't, and even if its still abandoned, its still owned by the gov't(Or who ever owns it?)

 

Doesn't matter who owns the railroad company, the land can be owned by the railroad company, or local municipalities, or the federal government (in the case of amtrak), private individuals, or co-operatives. It really varies a LOT by location, often there are business deals contracts handshakes and such, now days to build a ROW would be monumentally expensive, which is why many of the unused ones that are cut off by new construction will likely remain unused, but every square foot of ROW has to be accounted for by whichever government, be it city county state federal if it is to be zoned for something else, basically you can't just go and build on it even if it is 100% never to be used again, you need the zoning to be changed.

 

If the subway were shut down, and 30 years later someone wanted build malls and houses in the tunnels and open cuts, you'd legally have to re-zone from rail use to residential/commercial use. Just like you can't build over a height, under a depth, or non-residential etc, you can't do something other than rail stuff on a ROW without changing the zoning.

 

- A

[mark1447]

Just wondering, the old New York, Westchester and Boston Railway remains of the Dyre Line, is also a ROW too?

[metsfan]

Just wondering, the old New York, Westchester and Boston Railway remains of the Dyre Line, is also a ROW too?

 

I can look into that, where is it located exactly?

 

- A

[Fred G]

Just wondering, the old New York, Westchester and Boston Railway remains of the Dyre Line, is also a ROW too?

 

It's a ROW that's owned by NYC IINM.

[Trainmaster5]

Just wondering, the old New York, Westchester and Boston Railway remains of the Dyre Line, is also a ROW too?

 

It's a ROW purchased by the City of NY, through the NYC Transit System, later conveyed to the NYC Transit Authority, and conveyed to the at present. If the City of New York wished to re-take the NYC part of the bus and subway system the ownership of the Dyre line would have to be transferred back to a new Transit Authority and still used for transportation purposes. That ROW, whomever owns it, can't be used for anything else unless it's re-zoned. There are a few unused ROW sites in NYC. South of Jackson Ave on the and lines, next to the HUB post office, has a ROW where the tracks were removed a few years ago. The LIRR ROW severed from the Rockaway line, and the SIR North Shore ROW come to mind. IDK the technical (legal) difference between abandoned and unused but I think that a ROW remains a ROW until some government entity decides otherwise. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.