LRG Posted July 29, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 29, 2009 A program that used retired subway cars to create artificial reefs is being scrapped. New Jersey officials have ended the program because the stainless steel cars are deteriorating too quickly. About 100 cars were submerged, but a survey of 48 cars on the Atlantic City reef found only two remained intact after seven months in the water. It was estimated they would last 30 years. Officials have not reported any problems with the old Redbird subway cars, which have been used as artificial reefs since 2003, but those cars are made of regular steel. Here's a link to the direct article, with a somewhat disturbing video: http://www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/transit/102794/n-j--scraps-use-of-subway-cars-for-artificial-reefs/Default.aspx I knew this was a bad idea from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgedPolaris Posted July 29, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 29, 2009 Haha, I love the turtle in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted July 29, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 29, 2009 These people are insane, whos bright idea was it to pollute the seas with old rotting steel is beyond me, they have been doing this for years with old automobiles. This does nothing but create a toxic rotting mess, the so called "reef" is not helping the sea its hurting it. This was a moronic idea to begin with. They should just be scrapping the steel and recycling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted July 29, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 29, 2009 A program that used retired subway cars to create artificial reefs is being scrapped. New Jersey officials have ended the program because the stainless steel cars are deteriorating too quickly. About 100 cars were submerged, but a survey of 48 cars on the Atlantic City reef found only two remained intact after seven months in the water. It was estimated they would last 30 years. Officials have not reported any problems with the old Redbird subway cars, which have been used as artificial reefs since 2003, but those cars are made of regular steel. Here's a link to the direct article, with a somewhat disturbing video: http://www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/transit/102794/n-j--scraps-use-of-subway-cars-for-artificial-reefs/Default.aspx I knew this was a bad idea from the beginning. It's a waste of money. If they were more productive, they could've scrapped the cars and recycle the steel for other things, not just subway cars. Or at least, if the cars are in okay condition, sell them to a place that desperately needs them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted July 29, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 29, 2009 They can't scrap the cars because of asbestos inside the cars. The cost of abating the asbestos would be more expensive than the scrap value of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted July 29, 2009 It's a waste of money. If they were more productive, they could've scrapped the cars and recycle the steel for other things, not just subway cars. Or at least, if the cars are in okay condition, sell them to a place that desperately needs them. I'd have to agree, but I don't think any other place would want our lower than life subway cars because tehy may not know how to take care of them properly. They can't scrap the cars because of asbestos inside the cars. The cost of abating the asbestos would be more expensive than the scrap value of the car. Are you sure? Lots of older cars were abated and scrapped before this reefing program. They can simply revert back to that if they wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted July 29, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 29, 2009 They can't scrap the cars because of asbestos inside the cars. The cost of abating the asbestos would be more expensive than the scrap value of the car. Thats their problem, they have to remove the asbestos! The waste and pollution that the car causes underwater is just of a hazard. Im sure the asbestos underwater floats around and ends up somewhere even thought it isnt in someones lungs its polluting some underwater life that may eat it or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted July 29, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 29, 2009 I'd have to agree, but I don't think any other place would want our lower than life subway cars because tehy may not know how to take care of them properly. Agreed, new systems would generally use new cars. The only system that I know of today, that uses secondhand cars is the Pyongyang subway. And there is no chance we could supply them with our cars, given the recent political tensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted July 29, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 29, 2009 What reef are the current retirements currently going to? Because I have a feeling that the MTA will suspend reefing until they find a new location if this one is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted July 29, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 29, 2009 It's a waste of money. If they were more productive, they could've scrapped the cars and recycle the steel for other things, not just subway cars. Or at least, if the cars are in okay condition, sell them to a place that desperately needs them. I agree, Dumping subway cars in the water is the dumbest thing I ever heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted July 29, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 29, 2009 What else can you do with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted July 29, 2009 What else can you do with them? Scrap 'em. Or even sell 'em! But that's already been discussed, and selling them, specifically to an individual, can't be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqueduct Posted July 29, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 29, 2009 They can send one car to me, care of my parent's backyard though. That would be the only place I can put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted July 29, 2009 They can send one car to me, care of my parent's backyard though. That would be the only place I can put it. Wait until the R62s go and then you may be lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted July 30, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 30, 2009 What else can you do with them? Let the foamers buy them. That way it will be a win-win! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserati7200 Posted July 30, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 30, 2009 Honestly, if I had the space (I.E. a large garage or backyard) and the money for it, I'd probably buy one if it were for sale. How much could a old subway car cost anyway? Not much. When R32's were bought, they paid $100,000 per car. After 45 years of use, I think they are worth a lot less. If they were for sale, I'd say they should be sold for ~$20,000. Thats the same amount as a basic Honda Accord, so most people could buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted July 30, 2009 Honestly, if I had the space (I.E. a large garage or backyard) and the money for it, I'd probably buy one if it were for sale. How much could a old subway car cost anyway? Not much. When R32's were bought, they paid $100,000 per car. After 45 years of use, I think they are worth a lot less. If they were for sale, I'd say they should be sold for ~$20,000. Thats the same amount as a basic Honda Accord, so most people could buy one. Probably, but the way the MTA is right now, and who knows where they'll be in a few years, they'll probably auction the subway cars off to the highest bidder. (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted July 30, 2009 What reef are the current retirements currently going to? Because I have a feeling that the MTA will suspend reefing until they find a new location if this one is gone. And if New Jersey is having this problem, then other places may not want the subway cars to be reefed then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted July 30, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 30, 2009 Honestly, if I had the space (I.E. a large garage or backyard) and the money for it, I'd probably buy one if it were for sale. How much could a old subway car cost anyway? Not much. When R32's were bought, they paid $100,000 per car. After 45 years of use, I think they are worth a lot less. If they were for sale, I'd say they should be sold for ~$20,000. Thats the same amount as a basic Honda Accord, so most people could buy one. LOL that's actually a LOT of money...or do you have 20K "just lying around somewhere" if so tell us at BERA and we'll add it to the "R62A single someday" fund... IF they were selling cars, 5-10K would be more realistic (per car) but you've also got to add in transportation to get it to you, and no you can't drive it there The REAL issue is transportation and storage, as well as maintenance. No point in buying a subway car if you can't get it to yourself, if you don't have a place to put it (contrary to popular belief even a large garage won't quite work), and if you can't maintain it/keep it from the elements since not running, it will just rust to dust if left outdoors, particularly during the winter months when the snow and ice build up and find all those little weak spots in the structure to moisten up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserati7200 Posted July 30, 2009 Share #20 Posted July 30, 2009 LOL that's actually a LOT of money...or do you have 20K "just lying around somewhere" if so tell us at BERA and we'll add it to the "R62A single someday" fund... IF they were selling cars, 5-10K would be more realistic (per car) but you've also got to add in transportation to get it to you, and no you can't drive it there The REAL issue is transportation and storage, as well as maintenance. No point in buying a subway car if you can't get it to yourself, if you don't have a place to put it (contrary to popular belief even a large garage won't quite work), and if you can't maintain it/keep it from the elements since not running, it will just rust to dust if left outdoors, particularly during the winter months when the snow and ice build up and find all those little weak spots in the structure to moisten up Who said you'd pay $20K at once? A basic Honda Accord costs about $20K and plenty of people have those. There is something called a tent which protects it from rain/snow/elements. Shipping wouldn't be out of this world expensive, I'd estimate, a little over $1K (depends on distance). Lift it onto a flatbed truck and drive it to where-ever it's destination will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted July 30, 2009 Share #21 Posted July 30, 2009 The 32's I from the beginning said should sold to freight railroads as boxcars. Perhaps also third world railroads that have very old falling apart cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted July 30, 2009 Share #22 Posted July 30, 2009 Who said you'd pay $20K at once? A basic Honda Accord costs about $20K and plenty of people have those. There is something called a tent which protects it from rain/snow/elements. Shipping wouldn't be out of this world expensive, I'd estimate, a little over $1K (depends on distance). Lift it onto a flatbed truck and drive it to where-ever it's destination will be.I'd trust Drew when it comes to these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted July 31, 2009 Share #23 Posted July 31, 2009 Who said you'd pay $20K at once? A basic Honda Accord costs about $20K and plenty of people have those. A subway car is not a Honda accord. As far as I know there is no "(MTA) financing" to set you up with a loan and mail you monthly bills to get this done. There is something called a tent which protects it from rain/snow/elements. And that would have to be a pretty darn big tent for you to set up, just because it's covered doesn't mean parts are still not exposed to the elements and won't pick up moisture just through the air. Lots of people think "hey it'd be cool to own a railcar" but they don't think about the maintenance involved, trust me when I say it's WAY more than you (or pretty much anyone else here) can handle... Shipping wouldn't be out of this world expensive, I'd estimate, a little over $1K (depends on distance). Lift it onto a flatbed truck and drive it to where-ever it's destination will be. Where are you pulling your figures from? Shipping rates depend on the distance to the destination as well as if any trucks are scheduled to go that way. The more remote, the more expensive. Driving it is the easy part, it's loading and unloading that's tough. I'd be shocked if it could be moved for less than $5,000. Not to mention how do you plan to lift it onto a flatbed truck, and more importantly, lift if off when you arrive at your destination? The heavy equipment to do all that, as well as set up some sort of track to place it on, ALL costs money. Till you can troubleshoot all that it's just another pipe dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted July 31, 2009 Share #24 Posted July 31, 2009 I could only imagine that stainless steel would last longer than regular steel, but what's going on with those submerged Phase IIs and GEs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share #25 Posted July 31, 2009 Who said you'd pay $20K at once? A basic Honda Accord costs about $20K and plenty of people have those. There is something called a tent which protects it from rain/snow/elements. Shipping wouldn't be out of this world expensive, I'd estimate, a little over $1K (depends on distance). Lift it onto a flatbed truck and drive it to where-ever it's destination will be. I think the MTA would sell a subway car for much more than a grand! I'm getting a laptop that costs that much! If anything, 5K the least, 10K the most. I can already see a large number of people lining up at the bank trying to secure a loan just for a subway car!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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