How long?

[R32 3838]

All of it is speculation. It's clearly obvious in terms of mathematics that there are enough R160s (in the current orders) to retire all SMEEs. Before the delivery of the R160s, there are less than 1,600 SMEEs, due to mishaps and other accidents. If you say 1,662 cars can't retire each and every one of them, that's like going up there and say that 5 is bigger than 6. I might as well say 10 is bigger than a hundred.

Regardless of the delayed retirements, there are still enough cars to retire them. There is also a surplus amount of cars since there are fewer than the original 1600 SMEEs. Also, count on the 60 something cars that are for extras.

As for the R44s, they are in shabby shape and the R179s will not arrive for another 5 or 10 years. But that doesn't mean the R160s will go on and retire them directly. Not does it require a third optional order. An SMS will suffice and should make them last till their retirement.

I refuse to believe an ounce of what he said until I see photographic proof. Whether it is true or not, I don't take what others say as true until I see tangible proof. And I do not regret it in the future, if it shows up as real.

 

IAWTP.

 

Exactly, mishaps and other accidents caused some cars to be scrapped early.

 

There are 50 R42s at ENY that need to be replaced. 32 R160As will go there. These new R160s will go to the L. All R160s currently on the L will go to the J to retire the R42s. It's a bit funky here.

 

I am not going to say nothing anymore, I don't know why I keep on explaining stuff that I know while someone that don't know as much as I know thinks that R160's will cover everything, I already read the contracts from 2002,2006-08 and the 2009 contract for retirements, back in 2002 the only cars that were going to be replaced were the R38's-R44's, The R32's were not on the list, The Jamaica R32's are going Bye-Bye by ether the end of the year or the Fall as well as the R42's, I don't know what car classs R32 or R42 would be the Last out of Jamaica, But I am hoping the R32's would be the last, The 32 R160A-1's will go to the since they are ATO ready and the extra R160's that the has now will go to the to replace 24-30 SMEE's, And What I say is not Speculation, I keep on telling everybody but nobody want's to hear the truth because they know that I know the Truth, And like what one poster said, Everything that I said happend. Bottom Line the R160's won't replace all the SMEE's due to the fact the order is 382 cars and there will be atleast 100-80 R32's left unless the TA will have a 80 car shortage until the next order comes in.

[Grand Concourse]

Oic now, thanks MTR and Flushingexpress.

[LRG]

I am not going to say nothing anymore, I don't know why I keep on explaining stuff that I know while someone that don't know as much as I know thinks that R160's will cover everything, I already read the contracts from 2002,2006-08 and the 2009 contract for retirements, back in 2002 the only cars that were going to be replaced were the R38's-R44's, The R32's were not on the list, The Jamaica R32's are going Bye-Bye by ether the end of the year or the Fall as well as the R42's, I don't know what car classs R32 or R42 would be the Last out of Jamaica, But I am hoping the R32's would be the last, The 32 R160A-1's will go to the since they are ATO ready and the extra R160's that the has now will go to the to replace 24-30 SMEE's, And What I say is not Speculation, I keep on telling everybody but nobody want's to hear the truth because they know that I know the Truth, And like what one poster said, Everything that I said happend. Bottom Line the R160's won't replace all the SMEE's due to the fact the order is 382 cars and there will be atleast 100-80 R32's left unless the TA will have a 80 car shortage until the next order comes in.

 

Thank you!!! (Clicks thanks button )

[R44 5278]

R32 3838, I'm very curious as to what contractor is going to re-strip the R44s. Even if there is an option III, it would be on hold and due to the current circumstances and I see that the R44s may stay until 2014-2016. The MDBFs of the R44 are extremely unreliable as some years they have no breakdowns and some years they have numerous breakdowns. Their main problem is the rusting carbon strips, which I'm sure would be taken care of during the SMS.

[MTR Admiralty]

I am not going to say nothing anymore, I don't know why I keep on explaining stuff that I know while someone that don't know as much as I know thinks that R160's will cover everything, I already read the contracts from 2002,2006-08 and the 2009 contract for retirements, back in 2002 the only cars that were going to be replaced were the R38's-R44's, The R32's were not on the list, The Jamaica R32's are going Bye-Bye by ether the end of the year or the Fall as well as the R42's, I don't know what car classs R32 or R42 would be the Last out of Jamaica, But I am hoping the R32's would be the last, The 32 R160A-1's will go to the since they are ATO ready and the extra R160's that the has now will go to the to replace 24-30 SMEE's, And What I say is not Speculation, I keep on telling everybody but nobody want's to hear the truth because they know that I know the Truth, And like what one poster said, Everything that I said happend. Bottom Line the R160's won't replace all the SMEE's due to the fact the order is 382 cars and there will be atleast 100-80 R32's left unless the TA will have a 80 car shortage until the next order comes in.

How about you keep your information and speculation to yourself? Many of us would want to wait and see what would happen. Nobody has the time to read contracts, we all have our own time to do stuff. Don't expect everybody to be at whatever par you are on. I'm not trying to lash at you, but you are not part of the transit nor are you straight from RTO. You're like the rest of us.

 

From what it seems to all of us, the R160s are retiring the SMEEs, not R44s. Therefore I, including most of us, believe that the R160s are there to cover all of the SMEEs. In a recent MTA document, the 382 are there to replace 292 older cars, 90 will be extras. From the same document, there is no mention of a third optional order. This is straight out from the MTA.

You know what, instead of arguing, I'm not going to believe you any more until I see tangible evidence. We want to wait and see what happens next, not for somebody "to spill the beans". It's like watching a movie, do you want to sit in the movie only to have your best friend beside you to tell you what will happen next?

 

If you keep on spilling the beans, you will only incite arguments like these. I'm sure nobody wants to deal with such arguments here. Keep things simple, don't put your "inside knowledge" here. If something happens, we will discuss it to our heart's content.

R32 3838, I'm very curious as to what contractor is going to re-strip the R44s. Even if there is an option III, it would be on hold and due to the current circumstances and I see that the R44s may stay until 2014-2016. The MDBFs of the R44 are extremely unreliable as some years they have no breakdowns and some years they have numerous breakdowns. Their main problem is the rusting carbon strips, which I'm sure would be taken care of during the SMS.

I could not agree any more

[R32 3838]

How about you keep your information and speculation to yourself? Many of us would want to wait and see what would happen. Nobody has the time to read contracts, we all have our own time to do stuff. Don't expect everybody to be at whatever par you are on. I'm not trying to lash at you, but you are not part of the transit nor are you straight from RTO. You're like the rest of us.

 

From what it seems to all of us, the R160s are retiring the SMEEs, not R44s. Therefore I, including most of us, believe that the R160s are there to cover all of the SMEEs. In a recent MTA document, the 382 are there to replace 292 older cars, 90 will be extras. From the same document, there is no mention of a third optional order. This is straight out from the MTA.

You know what, instead of arguing, I'm not going to believe you any more until I see tangible evidence. We want to wait and see what happens next, not for somebody "to spill the beans". It's like watching a movie, do you want to sit in the movie only to have your best friend beside you to tell you what will happen next?

 

If you keep on spilling the beans, you will only incite arguments like these. I'm sure nobody wants to deal with such arguments here. Keep things simple, don't put your "inside knowledge" here. If something happens, we will discuss it to our heart's content.

 

I could not agree any more

 

 

One I am now way from the rest of the Railfans, 2 Don't you even dare try to smart talk me, ! I know way More than you will ever know 2 I did read the contracts 3 the R160's were indeed to replace R44's but that Plan swiched due to the small SMS on the R44 back in 2004 and yes the R44's were SMS before but very small, If they get SMS again they will have New Floors and Blue seats, So by you posting to me about what you think, Trust me to Me its a Joke and 1 more thing do youself a favour, Don't talk to me like that no more.

 

Someone needs to close this thread before it get ugly.

[MTR Admiralty]

In order to prevent this from an all out fight, I will offer the best way to settle conflicts: a compromise answer. Other members would not like to see a fight, but rather a simple answer.

-The R160 order has 3 orders to it: the base order and the two optional orders. There is a possibility for a third option order, but this will be confirmed by awaited sources or tangible evidence.

-Any third option order will be used for enhancing the SMS process of the R44s

-All remaining R40 and R42s will be retired by the fourth quarter of this year, the first quarter of next year at the latest. (current pattern, each new R160 at Jamaica will retire them)

-Poor condition R32s will be removed at the same time as the R40/R42 (I've seen enough cars at Concourse to make a judgement here)

-Remaining R32s will be removed by next year (the remaining cars of this fleet are more structurally sound than their SLCC counterparts, the R40/R42s)

-The R179 order is awaiting and will retire the R44 fleet when it is ordered. But this will not be accomplished till the next decade (proven by recent MTA documents)

-Due to the condition of some R44s, they will be retired, remaining R44s will be SMSed (I myself can note the quality of these cars, and I have to say they urgently need an SMS)

-ENY R42s will be replaced by R32s by Quarter 4 of this year (the R32s again are in better condition than the R42s, I've rode a J train two days ago and I noticed the shabbiness of the R42s. They can't hold up for another year)

-New R160s will go to Jamaica to directly replace SMEEs

-Incoming R160s will offset one set of R46s to the V to bump off one set of SMEEs

 

That's the best compromise I could come up with. I don't want any more threads closed or any to turn into wars.

[LRG]

So will the third option order replace the worst R44s or no? Because the R179 order is not going to take place until the next decade, around the mid-2010s, with my best guess, will eliminate all the R44 fleet and possibly the worst of the R46s until later orders come in to push all R46s out of service. Aren't 1,662 R160s enough to replace 1600 SMEES??? Won't the extra 62 cars provide extra service, or even better, replace some R44s?

[MTR Admiralty]

So will the third option order replace the worst R44s or no? Because the R179 order is not going to take place until the next decade, around the mid-2010s, with my best guess, will eliminate all the R44 fleet and possibly the worst of the R46s until later orders come in to push all R46s out of service. Aren't 1,662 R160s enough to replace 1600 SMEES??? Won't the extra 62 cars provide extra service, or even better, replace some R44s?

From my compromise explanation, I believe that the third option order exists as a possibility. From MTA documents, the extra cars would be used for service additions. But it makes sense to knock the worse R44s off the line because some of them are in shabby condition and are not worth salvaging.

 

What's also interesting to note is this: On paper, there will be 208 cars to replace the NYCT R44 fleet. IINM, there are 272 cars. Another 64 cars will go to the SIR to cover those 64. Now what about the 64 "missing" cars for the NYCT? The proposed 752 in the "option order" fully replaces the R46s, but does not satisfy the 64 car discrepancy.

[Grand Concourse]

So there's a chance the R32's will end up at ENY? That would be pretty neat.

[BroadwayBuffer]

So there's a chance the R32's will end up at ENY? That would be pretty neat.

 

Unlikely, based on all [credible] reports.

[Grand Concourse]

Oh, ok, whew. At least I won't have to get too hyped up about that

[MTR Admiralty]

So there's a chance the R32's will end up at ENY? That would be pretty neat.

Unlikely, based on all [credible] reports

Despite the uncertainty of what could happen in that theatre, you have to admit the R42s are not holding very well. The R42s are not doing that hot over there. Yes they could still run, but you can't leave them there for a whole year before retirement. The second order cars for ENY will arrive next year. Look at Alstom now. We're almost finished with the first order. There's still 200 R160A2s to deal with before moving to the R160A1s. It will take a while. The R32s will most liekly go there, because there is no other equipment that could act as temporary replacements. The lines can't run neither R44s, R46s nor hippos. Might as well stick some R32s over there. Makes sense logically.

[R44 5278]

A little off topic, but was the supplement order "R142S" never proposed on the R142A contract? If this is the case then the 3rd option may take place. My vision is that these will act as service increases to any line that needs them. But the R44s should've gotten an SMS before the R46s. The R46s were still in excellent shape before the SMS.

[BroadwayBuffer]

Despite the uncertainty of what could happen in that theatre, you have to admit the R42s are not holding very well. The R42s are not doing that hot over there. Yes they could still run, but you can't leave them there for a whole year before retirement. The second order cars for ENY will arrive next year. Look at Alstom now. We're almost finished with the first order. There's still 200 R160A2s to deal with before moving to the R160A1s. It will take a while. The R32s will most liekly go there, because there is no other equipment that could act as temporary replacements. The lines can't run neither R44s, R46s nor hippos. Might as well stick some R32s over there. Makes sense logically.

 

There is no equipment needed as a temporary replacement. 8/4 car sets of R-160s will permanently replace the remaining R-42s at ENY. I don't know how the rumor got started, but there is no reason to think that R-32s will go to ENY other than what certain people would like to see.

[R44 5278]

There is no equipment needed as a temporary replacement. 8/4 car sets of R-160s will permanently replace the remaining R-42s at ENY. I don't know how the rumor got started, but there is no reason to think that R-32s will go to ENY other than what certain people would like to see.

 

It's all a speculation as many sought that the R42s were beaten to pulps.

[R32 3838]

Despite the uncertainty of what could happen in that theatre, you have to admit the R42s are not holding very well. The R42s are not doing that hot over there. Yes they could still run, but you can't leave them there for a whole year before retirement. The second order cars for ENY will arrive next year. Look at Alstom now. We're almost finished with the first order. There's still 200 R160A2s to deal with before moving to the R160A1s. It will take a while. The R32s will most liekly go there, because there is no other equipment that could act as temporary replacements. The lines can't run neither R44s, R46s nor hippos. Might as well stick some R32s over there. Makes sense logically.

 

 

All I am trying to get everybody to understand that We may think that the whole etire R160 fleet would replace everything but look again And Not going off topic, Alot of people said this about the R142/A orders back in 2002-2003 that they would replace all Redbirds but The A divison was short of cars and the 60 R33WF singles had to be replaced so the MTA decided to order extra R142A (they called it R142S S for supplument) But I would call it an 3rd option order) so they ordered 80 60 to replace and 20 extra to prevent car shortage and service increases, That is a Prime examlpe of what I am trying to pin-point to everybody, 32 cars can't replace 50, its impossible, and the reason why I say that because the simple fact that the is ATO and the TA wants it to be 100% ATO and 32 R160A-1's ATO Ready would be shifted to the while those R160's would be on the (J)/(Z) to replace their SMEE's, You can't have less service because the lost atleast 3 sets, I rerember taking the to 7th grade and the 1st train out of jamaica Center used to be around 6:55, Now the 1st train that leaves is around 7:10-7:15 in the morning. The R42's are in the wost shape and they have to go, the R32's are not really in bad shape, The 207th st R32's run very good and the A/C is very good maybe 3 cars would not have A/C out of the 206 that they have. And If Option Order III is awarded It would have an extra 32 r160 (4-car sets) ATO ready with the 208 cars.

[MTR Admiralty]

It's all a speculation as many sought that the R42s were beaten to pulps.

The R42s in general can't hold up for another year.

[Y2Julio]

All I am trying to get everybody to understand that We may think that the whole etire R160 fleet would replace everything but look again And Not going off topic, Alot of people said this about the R142/A orders back in 2002-2003 that they would replace all Redbirds but The A divison was short of cars and the 60 R33WF singles had to be replaced so the MTA decided to order extra R142A (they called it R142S S for supplument) But I would call it an 3rd option order) so they ordered 80 60 to replace and 20 extra to prevent car shortage and service increases, That is a Prime examlpe of what I am trying to pin-point to everybody, 32 cars can't replace 50, its impossible, and the reason why I say that because the simple fact that the is ATO and the TA wants it to be 100% ATO and 32 R160A-1's ATO Ready would be shifted to the while those R160's would be on the (J)/(Z) to replace their SMEE's, You can't have less service because the lost atleast 3 sets, I rerember taking the to 7th grade and the 1st train out of jamaica Center used to be around 6:55, Now the 1st train that leaves is around 7:10-7:15 in the morning. The R42's are in the wost shape and they have to go, the R32's are not really in bad shape, The 207th st R32's run very good and the A/C is very good maybe 3 cars would not have A/C out of the 206 that they have. And If Option Order III is awarded It would have an extra 32 r160 (4-car sets) ATO ready with the 208 cars.

There is no R142S, this is something made up by railfans.

[R32 3838]

The R42s in general can't hold up for another year.

 

They can't hold up for another Month, The Jamaica ones are the wost out of all of them, That's another reason why 207th/Pitkin did not want those cars back, Instead Jamaica had to give and going to give more R46's to pitkin while the A-A units would move to their new home 207th st yard, Jamaica tried to be slick and give the remaining (back then 64-70 R32's) and half of their r40M's and R42's back to pitkin and 207th but they said No, Give us the R46's.

[MTR Admiralty]

They can't hold up for another Month, The Jamaica ones are the wost out of all of them, That's another reason why 207th/Pitkin did not want those cars back, Instead Jamaica had to give and going to give more R46's to pitkin while the A-A units would move to their new home 207th st yard, Jamaica tried to be slick and give the remaining (back then 64-70 R32's) and half of their r40M's and R42's back to pitkin and 207th but they said No, Give us the R46's.

I just saw a J train three days ago and I am a witness to the shabby condition of the ENY R42s. People assume that only JAM R42s are the crappiest. But again, JAM R42s are the same as ENY R42s, since they are both MK cars. On that train I passed by, 6 roofs out of 8 were pitifully crummy. The train itself wasn't doing that hot as well.

I'm not sure if they could last a month or not, but I'm sure these guys can't make it before the second option R160As come in.

[R32 3838]

How about you keep your information and speculation to yourself? Many of us would want to wait and see what would happen. Nobody has the time to read contracts, we all have our own time to do stuff. Don't expect everybody to be at whatever par you are on. I'm not trying to lash at you, but you are not part of the transit nor are you straight from RTO. You're like the rest of us.

 

From what it seems to all of us, the R160s are retiring the SMEEs, not R44s. Therefore I, including most of us, believe that the R160s are there to cover all of the SMEEs. In a recent MTA document, the 382 are there to replace 292 older cars, 90 will be extras. From the same document, there is no mention of a third optional order. This is straight out from the MTA.

You know what, instead of arguing, I'm not going to believe you any more until I see tangible evidence. We want to wait and see what happens next, not for somebody "to spill the beans". It's like watching a movie, do you want to sit in the movie only to have your best friend beside you to tell you what will happen next?

 

If you keep on spilling the beans, you will only incite arguments like these. I'm sure nobody wants to deal with such arguments here. Keep things simple, don't put your "inside knowledge" here. If something happens, we will discuss it to our heart's content.

 

I could not agree any more

 

And One more thing, About the RTO and Transit Part, I know Alot of People from The NYCTA so don't go there with me, I am not tring to fight or pick at everybody but I am not going to give my sources to some Foamers that want's to see the NYCTA B divsion 100% R160, Yes I don't know everything but I am not going to give the whole Pie, I get E-Mails from TA workers that are superentendents and T/O's that have been on the JOB for almost 30 years, I did things and Railfaned Subway cars that you all wished to ride, half of you don't even have a Clue of what's going on but yet you all get hey wire because of what I say, And Like I said, every time I say what I say 8 times out of 10 I am right 3 times out of 10 Im wrong, Im not like these railfans, I studyed for 14 1/2 years about this system and yet I have somebody that have studied the system for only 2 years tell me that I am like the rest of us, HELL NO Im am not like the Railfans of this generation and I get the respect from other Railfans due to the fact I share my what I know, So don't tell somebody that know's way more than you not just Me, Any Old School Railfan.

And Trust ME You Will see more wired things on Queens Bivd because the Fall is coming and the line effected is the .

[MTR Admiralty]

We should all leave this topic alone because everyone has his or her own opinion on what the retirements will look like. If we see something new, we will post here. I don't want to start a whole morning arguing nor do I like to see a thread full of "hot air" everytime I return here.

[R44 5278]

Calculating the number of trains left is very inaccurate considering that the datasheets only represent the number of trains running, not in layup. We should definitely wait and see.

[MTR Admiralty]

Calculating the number of trains left is very inaccurate considering that the datasheets only represent the number of trains running, not in layup. We should definitely wait and see.

Actually our datasheets show the number of trains "in revenue service" so it accounts for the trains that are laid up. However, we do not account for the trains that are actually being used for service.