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New MTA-TWU Contract Discussion


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I will say it again. MNRR, NJT, and LIRR with their big shiny trains, don't carry squat compared to what we move. They get paid at least $35 and there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't. They get the same benefits as us to. Now I do hear their retirement sucks compared to ours (I think its 30/62). If I am wrong please correct me.........

 

As for following the rules, as you all know I have worked both surface and RTO, and it's the same crap at either. Supervisors who were some of the wosrt B/O's and T/O's always tell you to follow the rules. They forget the petty stuff they did, got in trouble for, think it wasn't fair, went home moaned groaned, possibly wanting to bask the Superintendents face in, just cause they are immediate supervisors. I worked with a Bus Operator at West Farms who became a dispatcher. That badge went to his head and alot of M100 operators put him in his place, and so did I. After that he stopped being a female dog..........

 

Saying this, there are absolutely some screw ups out there, that even fellow B/O, T/O's, and C/R's say should be fired. Sadly they will make Superintendents and Managers instead. I do admit alot of the stuff is caused on ourselves, and that is because instead of operating and/or driving according to TA standards, we let TA intimidating us to make their fake a$$ schedule, that can't be made following the rules. We really need to operate buses and trains according to TA rules, and asked why youz late....I'm just operating according to TA rules and regulations. Ain't sh!t they can do either. 8HR jobs would disappear quickly, and become 8.5 or more...........

 

 

That is so funny and sadly, it's true in my department as well. I know supervisors and managers who were promoted before I got there, so I don't know how they used be. But when I hear their old pals calling them such nicknames like "Crash," "Demo Dan" and "John Wright Up (Write-up...), I can only imagine how brutal on the equipment or useless they may have been. And true to form, they suck as supervisors now.

 

As far as MNRR goes, top pay for locomotive engineers is $38.72/hr (the vacancy notice is currently posted on the MTA website), and ten years of work qualifies for a pension, with 30 years offering maximum benefits. I don't know about an age. I imagine they're either 57/25 or 62/30.

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That is so funny and sadly, it's true in my department as well. I know supervisors and managers who were promoted before I got there, so I don't know how they used be. But when I hear their old pals calling them such nicknames like "Crash," "Demo Dan" and "John Wright Up (Write-up...), I can only imagine how brutal on the equipment or useless they may have been. And true to form, they suck as supervisors now.

 

As far as MNRR goes, top pay for locomotive engineers is $38.72/hr (the vacancy notice is currently posted on the MTA website), and ten years of work qualifies for a pension, with 30 years offering maximum benefits. I don't know about an age. I imagine they're either 57/25 or 62/30.

 

OMG $38.72, and we who move far more can't even get a starting salary of $30. Oh wait, NYCTA division is very "diverse", while MNRR and LIRR is not as "diverse"......... That is why they won't give us more, and comparable pay.

 

 

Them being certified L/E's that doesn't mean anything to me. We move far more people on heavy trains also...........

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OMG $38.72, and we who move far more can't even get a starting salary of $30. Oh wait, NYCTA division is very "diverse", while MNRR and LIRR is not as "diverse"......... That is why they won't give us more, and comparable pay.

 

 

Them being certified L/E's that doesn't mean anything to me. We move far more people on heavy trains also...........

 

True the LIRR and MNCR employees get paid a lot more, but that's only half the picture. Overall, our (NYCTA) benefits are better:

 

• We get 12 paid sick days per year. They only get 8.

 

• We can use our sick time without call-ups from supervision (provided that you're in the upper 70% echelon.) They still get calls and have to call up when leaving the house.

 

• We get four weeks vacation after three years of service. They have to wait TEN years, and you only get two weeks vacation during your first five years of service. In the first ten years of service, an NYCTA employee will have gained nine weeks more vacation time than an employee of LIRR or MNCR and 40 additional sick days.

 

• In most titles we reach top pay after three years of service, and even quicker if you enter the NYCTA as a Train Operator with only 231 road days required to reach top pay. For them, six years.

 

• Our standard health plan is more comprehensive than theirs.

 

• We can retire after 25 years of service and 55 years of age. They've got 30/62.

 

• We don't have to maintain licensing requirements in order to remain employed.

 

We've also got other advantages which aren't related to benefits such as better, more flexible pick rights and far lower seniority requirements in order to obtain weekends off. An NYCTA Conductor can pick SS off on the PM shift after only seven years in title. A MNCR/LIRR C/R? Try 15 years, and that's on the low end.

 

In the end I think that we're better off right now than them. Sometimes it's not all about the cash.

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That is why they won't give us more, and comparable pay.

 

 

I strongly disagree with this statement. The main reason we don't have comparable salaries is because of our bullshit union. The union has a ridiculous amount of titles that are all covered under one contract. In LIRR and MNR the engineers are BLE and there contracts are negotiated for them only.

 

For us if the TA wanted to give operating personnel a bigger raise during a contract they couldn't because the union is all about having all titles making almost the same pay. I was told a long time ago by a high up manager at the TA that the agency wouldn't object to T/O's making more but they wouldn't want the other titles to make more they already feel like most titles are overpaid.

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We've also got other advantages which aren't related to benefits such as better, more flexible pick rights and far lower seniority requirements in order to obtain weekends off.

 

I do know that L/E's and C/R's can put in for a job assignment every week. I constantly see people bumped and they disappear and then reappear.

 

I didn't know anything about the other benefits, and that was a useful post, Z. Thanks.

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I strongly disagree with this statement. The main reason we don't have comparable salaries is because of our bullshit union. The union has a ridiculous amount of titles that are all covered under one contract. In LIRR and MNR the engineers are BLE and there contracts are negotiated for them only.

 

For us if the TA wanted to give operating personnel a bigger raise during a contract they couldn't because the union is all about having all titles making almost the same pay. I was told a long time ago by a high up manager at the TA that the agency wouldn't object to T/O's making more but they wouldn't want the other titles to make more they already feel like most titles are overpaid.

 

I know that Local 100 encompasses a gangload of titles. Has there ever been any talk about breaking it down into a local for T/O's, a local for C/R's, a local for B/O's, etc.?

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I know that Local 100 encompasses a gangload of titles. Has there ever been any talk about breaking it down into a local for T/O's, a local for C/R's, a local for B/O's, etc.?

 

Years ago there was talk about T/O's breaking away and joining BLE the union that T/O's were originally in but they couldn't get enough support. People are scared of the unknown and get comfortable even if they know they can do better. It pains me to say it but ALOT of my coworkers are uninformed and don't care to be more informed. I have never heard of any other title or department even considering breaking away.

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True the LIRR and MNCR employees get paid a lot more, but that's only half the picture. Overall, our (NYCTA) benefits are better:

 

• We get 12 paid sick days per year. They only get 8.

 

• We can use our sick time without call-ups from supervision (providing that you're in the upper 70% echelon.) They still get calls and have to call up when leaving the house.

 

• We get four weeks vacation after three years of service. They have to wait TEN years, and you only get two weeks vacation during your first five years of service. After ten years of service, an NYCTA employee will have gained nine weeks more vacation time and 40 additional sick days than our friends on the commuter railroads.

 

• In most titles we reach top pay after three years of service, and even quicker if you enter the NYCTA as a Train Operator with only 231 road days required to reach top pay. For them, six years.

 

• Our standard health plan is more comprehensive than theirs.

 

• We can retire after 25 years of service and 55 years of age. They've got 30/62.

 

We've also got other advantages which aren't related to benefits such as better, more flexible pick rights and far lower seniority requirements in order to obtain weekends off.

 

In the end, I think that we're better off right now than them. Sometimes it's not all about the cash.

Why did you re-post this?

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I do know that L/E's and C/R's can put in for a job assignment every week. I constantly see people bumped and they disappear and then reappear.

 

I didn't know anything about the other benefits, and that was a useful post, Z. Thanks.

 

You're welcome. It is true that employees over there get bumped out of their jobs quite often; I know one C/R who got bumped out of his job three times in a month and had to change tours each time. We, at the NYCTA, have an advantage in that whatever we pick is set in stone for seven months (on average).

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True the LIRR and MNCR employees get paid a lot more, but that's only half the picture. Overall, our (NYCTA) benefits are better:

 

• We get 12 paid sick days per year. They only get 8.

 

We've also got other advantages which aren't related to benefits such as better, more flexible pick rights and far lower seniority requirements in order to obtain weekends off. An NYCTA Conductor can pick SS off on the PM shift after only seven years in title. A MNCR/LIRR C/R? Try 15 years, and that's on the low end.

 

 

 

MNR gets 12 paid sick days also. Although "paid" is not full pay. We only get 90 cents on the dollar for sick pay.

 

15 years sounds about right for train crews getting at least one week end day off. On the average L/Es and C/Rs won't get off the extra board before 5 years let alone a steady shift. They don't have AM or PM shifts either. There hours are based on the jobs covered. One job might be a 10 hour day, others might only be 7 hours.

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I strongly disagree with this statement. The main reason we don't have comparable salaries is because of our bullshit union. The union has a ridiculous amount of titles that are all covered under one contract. In LIRR and MNR the engineers are BLE and there contracts are negotiated for them only.

 

For us if the TA wanted to give operating personnel a bigger raise during a contract they couldn't because the union is all about having all titles making almost the same pay. I was told a long time ago by a high up manager at the TA that the agency wouldn't object to T/O's making more but they wouldn't want the other titles to make more they already feel like most titles are overpaid.

 

Well, after reading from Jah what we do get overall compared to LIRR and MNRR, I agree with him, that we come out better in the end. It isn't about the money. To me, it's all about the abusive disciplinary actions in NYCTA. I agree the our Union does have alot to do with why we don't get things MNRR and LIRR do, and why we get far more abuse by hire-ups. But look, Toussaint, Ed Watt and others have big houses to pay for, and money under the table helps alot.......

 

As for the Brootherhood of Locomotive Engineers, I would sign up to have them represent us in RTO only............

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Math is not disputable, but your numbers are slightly inaccurate...

 

Just say we are new Train Operators making 26.99 starting January 1, 2009.

 

2009

Jan 1 - April 15 = 15 weeks x 40 hours x $26.99x1 = 16194

Apr 16- Oct 15 = 26 weeks x 40 hours x $26.99x1.02 = 28631

Oct 16- Dec 31 = 11 weeks x 40 hours x $26.99x1.04 = 12350

 

for a total of $57175 earnings for 2009... ($56139 = 2008 year earnings)

 

that's a $1036 annual raise for 2009 (57175-56139)...

 

making for a raise in 2009 of 1.845%... not even 2% (1036/56139)...

 

NOT EVEN A 2% RAISE.

 

They try to fool us by saying that we are getting 4%. It's NOT 4%... sure at the end of the year, on December 31, we got our 4%, but LOOK AT THE NUMBERS PEOPLE.

 

IF we got a 4% raise effective January 1, 2009, we WOULD HAVE earned $58,384.76 for 2009, but that is not the case. In actuality, starting October 16, 2009, our salary will be 28.07. THEN, we will be making $58384.76+ the FOLLOWING year...

 

They structured the contract to our disadvantage, and drastically inflate the numbers to the public...

 

Why not call it what it is...

a 0% raise for 29% of the year,

a 2% raise for half the year,

which becomes a 4% raise for 21% of the year.

 

Thoughts, opinions, comments...?

 

Eddie Chino

 

if the raise is split up in 2, its MORE money, not less!

 

this is what it would look like for a brand spanking new train operator earning $26.99/hr for 2080 hours a year after a 2% raise every 6 months.

 

$26.99 * 2080 = $56,139.20

$56,139.20 * 1.02 = $57,261.98 after 6 months

$57,261.98 * 1.02 = $58,407.22 after 1 year

 

 

this is what it would look like for a brand spanking new train operator earning $26.99/hr for 2080 hours a year after a 4% raise every year.

 

$26.99 * 2080 = $56,139.20

$56,139.20 * 1.04 = $58,384.76 after 1 year

 

math isnt disputable

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2009

Jan 1 - April 15 = 15 weeks x 40 hours x $26.99x1 = 16194

Apr 16- Oct 15 = 26 weeks x 40 hours x $26.99x1.02 = 28631

Oct 16- Dec 31 = 11 weeks x 40 hours x $26.99x1.04 = 12350

 

 

 

how come you keep multiplying by $26.99? every time you get a raise its on top of what you're making at the time, not on top of $26.99 every time. the newspaper said its compounded

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how come you keep multiplying by $26.99? every time you get a raise its on top of what you're making at the time, not on top of $26.99 every time. the newspaper said its compounded

 

2009

Jan 1 - April 15 = 15 weeks x 40 hours x $26.99 = 16,194

Apr 16- Oct 15 = 26 weeks x 40 hours x 27.53 ($26.99x1.02) = 28,631.20

Oct 16- Dec 31 = 11 weeks x 40 hours x 28.08 ($27.53x1.02) = 12,355.20

 

Total: 57,180.40

 

vs. 2008 52 weeks x 40 hours x $26.99 = 56,139.20

 

Raise is $1,041.2

 

Or 1.85% (1,041.2 increase in '09 / 56,139.2 pay from '08)

 

Chino's figures while not "exactly precise" provided the correct and true story of what's happening. The difference created by compounding was literally $5. I agree with his post.

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ok, now i see why the numbers dont add up. you're bitter about not getting a raise from Jan to Apr. but if you do the numbers from Apr. 16, 2009 to Apr. 15, 2010 it should add up to a 4% raise or even more due to compounding. someone do the math for me plz, im tired today :cool:

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ok, now i see why the numbers dont add up. you're bitter about not getting a raise from Jan to Apr. but if you do the numbers from Apr. 16, 2009 to Apr. 15, 2010 it should add up to a 4% raise or even more due to compounding. someone do the math for me plz, im tired today :cool:

 

I'm bitter because the contract is not really what they say it is... we do get 4% raise... but it's not until October 16, 2009... 10 1/2 months into the year...

 

The 2009 raise is not compounded if I read the Union memo correctly...

 

April 2009 - 2%

which changes into..

Oct 2009 - 4%

 

not 2%, then 2% on top of that...

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2010 raises do compound the 2009 raises

 

26.99 x 1.04 (for2009) x 1.02 (for April 2010) x 1.02 (for Oct 2010)

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2011 raise compounds the 2009 raise, but NOT the 2010 raise...

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That's what I read on the Union memo...

 

...which states the positives only... we don't know the negatives, or givebacks (if any) yet...

 

Eddie Chino

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Here's the math:

 

For Bus Operators:

Current wage per hour: $26.99

Wage as of 4/16/09: $27.52

Wage as of 10/16/09: $28.08

Wage as of 4/16/10: $28.64

Wage as of 10/16/10: $29.21

Wage as of 1/16/11 (3% raise compounded on wage in effect on 2/1/10): $30.05

 

What would have been the final wage on a standard compounded 4/4/3: $30.06 (actual difference is less than 2¢ per hour)

 

For Train Operators

Current: $28.5675

4/16: $29.13

10/16: $29.71

4/16/10: $30.31

10/16/10: $30.91

1/16/11: $31.81

 

What would have been the final wage on a standard compounded 4/4/3: $31.82 (actual difference is less than 2¢ per hour)

 

There were no givebacks in this contract in regards to buses & subways.

 

If you want the entire 46 page arbitration decision e-mailed to you, send me your e-mail address.

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