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NYCTNostalgia

Should there be a Woodlawn 4 rush hour express?

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Young man you only 13 years pld but we are in middle of reccession so its doubtful any new service including a woodlawn rush hour express will be created.

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I like the idea of a <4> Jerome Avenue Express in the Bronx but I don't think many (4) riders on that section would be too happy about it.

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Young man you only 13 years pld but we are in middle of reccession so its doubtful any new service including a woodlawn rush hour express will be created.

 

Lol young man!!!

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Well, they did a pilot program in which <4> trains ran express from 7 to 8 in the morning back in June. There's talk that it was successful and they may implement it probably next year.

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Well I say no because the (4) line is very busy in the Bronx.The local riders 176th-167th St will get caught with the ppl from the (D) @ 161.Crowded stations on the (4) in the morning are(Fordham Rd,183rd St,167th St and 161st)the rest are in the mix.But if the (4) does go express I think it should be

<4>To Woodlawn

<4>Lex/Estrn Pkwy Exp

<4>Jerome Av Exp

<4>BX Stops:149th St,161st,167th switch right afta 167th exp to Burnside then local from Burnside to Kingsbridge switch to exp to Woodlawn.

(4)To Bedford Pk Blvd some to Woodlawn kinda like the (5)<5> how they go to Nerid-238th or Eastchester-Dyre.

Just my opinions

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Right now we do have a Scheduled Jerome Express. Selected Uptown (4) service PM RUSH HOURS does run Express from 167 Street to Burnside Ave then goes out of service and runs to the Yard.

I heard mixed reaction on the AM EXP Service which did Stop at Mosholu Pkwy. The Local trains behind the Exp got lots of heavy ridership at Fordham.

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no matter what they try the 4 is just a busy line. if one train is more than 2 mins late the platforms get overloaded. the 4 express does what the 6 express does move more volume on the same line. its not about being faster just moving more people at the same time.

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no matter what they try the 4 is just a busy line. if one train is more than 2 mins late the platforms get overloaded. the 4 express does what the 6 express does move more volume on the same line. its not about being faster just moving more people at the same time.

 

Perfectly said. The (4) is so busy mainly section between Union Sq and Woodlawn other CBTC operations and a 1/2-bulit SAS, crowding will always occur.

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Right now we do have a Scheduled Jerome Express. Selected Uptown (4) service PM RUSH HOURS does run Express from 167 Street to Burnside Ave then goes out of service and runs to the Yard.

I heard mixed reaction on the AM EXP Service which did Stop at Mosholu Pkwy. The Local trains behind the Exp got lots of heavy ridership at Fordham.

 

Some (4) trains in the AM rush hour and early midday run Northbound express too. It seems as though one train can be 3 minutes behind at 125 around 10:00am and get to Burnside 1 minute ahead of the train in front. Maybe the AM (4) trains run express from 149 to Burnside?

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Im Not A Fan because it skips some major stops like 161 and 167

 

Well your right... it would also skip Fordham and Kingsbridge as well. My only idea for a solution would be to operate the <4> between 149/GC and Burnside Extress then local to Woodlawn. Meanwhile to alleviate Woodlawn's 2 track terminal from the extra trains id terminate some (4) locals at Bedford Pk.

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We had a trial service done, people liked it. Yes, Bedford, Fordham, 167th and 161st would be skipped, but that's all about operations and infrastructure. Hey people want 74th on the 7 to be express, but it can't.

 

Anywho, this thread sounds very similar to a thread we had a year ago. I would propose skip-stop service since that would allow for trains to stop at certain stops like: Bedford and Fordham.

 

DX Local, I am sure there are more important stations/streets than 167th. There are more important stations that are exempted from this service such as Fordham. Fordham Station was not designed to be an express because the early planners had no idea it would generate such a bustling community today. Same with 161st. I'm sure the old Yankee stadium was built after the el. Which means the planners did not anticipate for stadium construction or any major venues that would attract a lot of riders and call for special services.

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Right now we do have a Scheduled Jerome Express. Selected Uptown (4) service PM RUSH HOURS does run Express from 167 Street to Burnside Ave then goes out of service and runs to the Yard.

I heard mixed reaction on the AM EXP Service which did Stop at Mosholu Pkwy. The Local trains behind the Exp got lots of heavy ridership at Fordham.

 

This sounds similar to the <5> Thru WPR which goes Express from 180th to GH Rd then to 239th

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skip stops dont work on these high volume lines. they tried it on the 1 train, and it did not work. remember the 9 train.

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Yeah the Line Managers came up with the idea of having scheduled lay ups ( trains that need to go to the yard) go out of service enroute instead of jamming up the terminals. Also on the (1) some trains drop out at 238 Street.

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Didnt they already have somewhat of an express <4> that skipped one or two stops before heading into manhattan, already as an express route.

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If it ain't broke don't fix it. All these questions arise about the 4 Bronx Express. Just because a middle exists doesnt mean it warrents express service. The (4) is just a busy route and jus after leaving Woodlawn 3-4 stops into it, its already getting SRO. That testing of the (4) Express doesnt mean it will work. Just a simple fact it skips to many important stops.

 

The only way I see it working is if you give it the set up how the (6)&<6> works.

 

(4) Bronx Local(Utica AV-Burnside Av)

Theres a downside to this. Trains returning to Manhattan from Burnside would delay trains from Woodlawn if late and how the Lex is late would be an everyday thing and extreme bunching would be a big problem.

 

(4) Bronx Express(Utica AV or New Lots AV-Woodlawn)

 

That would mean switches north of burnside AV would have to be created in order for this to work without a gitch. But you also need too keep a steady flow of trains above Burnside AV as busy as the (4) is. And you would have to deal with any daily rider who thought the (4) Local was going to Woodlawn.

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Didnt they already have somewhat of an express <4> that skipped one or two stops before heading into manhattan, already as an express route.

 

It skips 138th Street. And that is not an express. It skips 138th Street so they dont have to hold 4s at 138 Northbound/149 Street Southbound during rush hour while (5)s are connecting to enter 138th. There is a 10-15mph timer while (5)s are connecting and if a (4) had to wait for that during RUSH HOUR it would be a big problem before it even entered manhattan.

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I personally think that this will only work if you build either Bedford, Fordham, or both into express stations and then do the following:

 

1) Split service on the current (4), which runs 4-5 minute headways into the (4) and the <4>, each running 8-10 minute headways.

 

2) During rush hours, start/end (4) local trains at a rebuilt Bedford Pk Blvd by relaying them on the center track the same way as the (;) does during rush hours. Then run the <4> the full distance from Utica/New Lots to Woodlawn, stopping at 125,149, Burnside, Fordham, Bedford, Mosholu, Woodlawn. From Woodlawn to just south of Bedford Park, <4> trains would run on the local track, switching to/from the local tracks just south of the station while (4) trains made the switch to/from the center track at the same set of switches.

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I personally think that this will only work if you build either Bedford, Fordham, or both into express stations and then do the following:

 

1) Split service on the current (4), which runs 4-5 minute headways into the (4) and the <4>, each running 8-10 minute headways.

 

2) During rush hours, start/end (4) local trains at a rebuilt Bedford Pk Blvd by relaying them on the center track the same way as the (;) does during rush hours. Then run the <4> the full distance from Utica/New Lots to Woodlawn, stopping at 125,149, Burnside, Fordham, Bedford, Mosholu, Woodlawn. From Woodlawn to just south of Bedford Park, <4> trains would run on the local track, switching to/from the local tracks just south of the station while (4) trains made the switch to/from the center track at the same set of switches.

 

That would be costly. It would be cheaper to build switches.

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If it ain't broke don't fix it. All these questions arise about the 4 Bronx Express. Just because a middle exists doesnt mean it warrents express service. The (4) is just a busy route and jus after leaving Woodlawn 3-4 stops into it, its already getting SRO. That testing of the (4) Express doesnt mean it will work. Just a simple fact it skips to many important stops.

 

The only way I see it working is if you give it the set up how the (6)&<6> works.

 

(4) Bronx Local(Utica AV-Burnside Av)

Theres a downside to this. Trains returning to Manhattan from Burnside would delay trains from Woodlawn if late and how the Lex is late would be an everyday thing and extreme bunching would be a big problem.

 

(4) Bronx Express(Utica AV or New Lots AV-Woodlawn)

 

That would mean switches north of burnside AV would have to be created in order for this to work without a gitch. But you also need too keep a steady flow of trains above Burnside AV as busy as the (4) is. And you would have to deal with any daily rider who thought the (4) Local was going to Woodlawn.

 

I believe in that saying but the problem is it is broken. They need to implement a service pattern like on the (6)<6> because trains are completely full before they hit Burnside. One little hiccup and the whole line is backed up and screwed. The main problem with the pilot express was that it went express after Mosholu Parkway which made it a waste of time for anyone to even contemplate backtracking north of Burnside for an express. Only people that benefitted from that were the people at those 4 Bx stops it made and people in Manhattan. the <4> needs to run local to Burnside then express and (4) locals should start at Burnside (have 1-2 start at Woodlawn). People at 161 and 167 aren't going to care about not getting an express if the local has seats.

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it would actually be easier to have the put ins from mosh yd go in service at burnside. the only problem is utica cant handle the extra relays due to space and time concerns, and sending the extras to newlots will add even more trains to the am conga line.

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Why shouldn't the <4> run express in the Bronx. It haves two express stations and 5 local stations in between those two, why not take advantage.

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(1) and (9) skip-stop service was terminated because ridership was higher at skipped (9) stations, I believe. So they thought it would be easier to just keep the (1) by itself. I ask myself that if it was a problem then they should have made one service operate local (maybe the (9)) and have the other service operate peak express (the (1)). But ridership would probably not be heavy enough and the express may end up getting discontinued anyway.

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