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I'm confused now with railcar purchases in 10-14 capital plan


Fan Railer

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What's your proof for such a speculation? Even if the "Option III" were to come, it would just barely cover 1/3 of the 272 R44s. In addition, Jamaica yard will undergo an expansion in the coming years as according to the Capital Plan which pretty much answers the question as to where the "R160S" might go.

 

Jamaica yard is NOT getting expanded, I repeat, Jamaica Yard is not getting expanded! Plans to do that have been shelved.

 

That's what I'm trying to do. We all got sucked into this mess because two people who think that they run the place are wasting their time disagreeing with somebody who knows what he is talking about.

 

Doesn't everyone try to act superior to the better man Brian? The fact is, there are two people arguing, one who has close ties with the TA cuz he receives checks from them, while the other has more insider information by doing research and even talking to T/Os. I'm sorry, but I'd definitely be agreeing with the latter in this case. You don't have to be paid by the TA to know about the TA.

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I love how you guys are getting worked up over trains to this level. Seriously...learn how to ignore people that piss you off and stay on topic and maybe we'd all be in a better situation. Or you can all go outside find some little boxing ring to slug it out in if you really feel the need to confront each other. I'll be happy to sell the tickets and video record the whole damn thing and when I post the opening words it will read "would you believe this all happened over subway trains?"

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I'll calm down the second I go to sleep.

 

lollllllll

 

no dude I mean I agree with u on sources

 

Like do u think i want to hear all this R179/R188 gibberish...

 

No orders HAVE BEEN MADE YET... We are still with R160s and we dunno how an R179/R188, M9 looks. M8 thats fine but nothing much..

 

I need serious proof

 

no offense to my people here at NYCTF. Just a say

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LOL the fighting over proposed car orders and an MTA wish list just cracks me up. None of this stuff is funded or sure to happen. I could care less what runs where. Have any of you ever heard the saying "one handle is the same as another?". The rollsign on the front of the train doesn't make a train more or less interesting becasue at the end of the day it's still the same equipment.

 

And until something is built and ordered, i could care less what the hell it's going to look like. It's obvious there are some here who take car moves and orders way too seriously. At the end of the day what are you really learning anyway? Better to learn routes, signals, speed restrictions, car technology, or transit history than car moves becuase car moves and orders change all the time and yesterday's plan is today's cancelled plan and today's actual plan is tomorrow's old news. Yawn. There is new tech mechanism to discuss (which I don't even really understand). Way more interesting than car moves and proposed orders which have yet to be designed all speculation aside....

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Whatever. I don't have to answer to the two of you.

 

 

 

Trainmaster5 is a god.

 

I'm not a god by a long shot, just older than most posters. Besides working for the TA I read a lot and ask questions when I'm unsure of something. There are other members here who know as much, or more, than I do. IDK from experience that capital plans and bond issues have been altered or diverted in the last 60 years or so for other purposes so I take each plan with a grain of salt. For example, in my lifetime there have been at least 2 instances where the voters have approved bonds for the construction of the Second Avenue line. Not Federal grants, but NYC taxpayers own money. I'm still waiting to see a train so forgive me for being so cynical.Just my opinion folks but I wouldn't get worked up over R179,R188 or whatever. It's not worth it anyway.

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I think this thread might get locked.

 

Yes, Ive had enough with the damn talk about of R179/R188 Bs. Thats not happening for another few yrs... People are just concluding things without proof. One saying they have a specification of the R179 another persons saying its not gonna be 75ft but 60 ft. Which is driving me nuts.

 

If anyone here was to work with the (MTA), the top people in the company, then we can possiably rely on them. Not even RTO/Bus/Engineer people here knows whats the issue...

 

We are STILL dealing with R160! Whats the big rush for moving on. R160s is still in production. And I wanna focus on R160s and what happening to the R32s and the rest of the OTTs!

 

Aye!

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Of course the R179 thing is all still future music, but it's a fact that the R44's will be replaced sooner or later. You can't just run these cars 50 years long, they will have to be replaced in a couple of years.

 

What i'm asking myself is if Jamaica Yard will again be getting the newest cars (R179), pushing out the R46's (which would then against be the oldest cars in the fleet) to Pitkin/207th, or if the new cars would have a chance of going directly to the (A)... IMHO, the (A) is one of the most important and busiest routes in the system, and it's also important for the first impression visitors get of the city's transit system (JFK airport).

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The R44s are still going to be here for at least another 3-6 years, there's no need for bidding to start this early. R160 bidding started that early because the R160 fleet is over 5 times as large as the R179 fleet may be.

 

As for the O/P, I don't see any confusion at all for the future car orders. There is one order for 200 cars and another order for 140 cars. 340 60-foot cars is equal to 272 75-foot cars. The NYCT R44 fleet is 272 cars. It also says that 80 cars will replace the 64 on the SIR. 80 60-foot cars = 64 75-foot cars. This supports the claim that the new order of cars will be 60-feet long.

 

This also clears up one more thing. The (MTA) is only buying enough cars to replace the R44s. This means that there is no need for a 3rd R160 option order to replace the R32-R42 fleet. If there is a third R160 option order (of which there is no need) then it would do the same thing as the R179 order would. After reading that excerpt from Fan Railer's post I'm pretty confident the R179's will be 60 feet long and will only replace the R44s. The R46s are here to stay.

 

 

Option Order II R160's can't replace all R32-42's, Its obovious that 382 cars can't replace over 500 SMEE's, Now currently around 355-365 SMEE's, Option Order III will Replace the Remaining 80 R32 Phase I's and All R44's, And these Option Order III cars will most likely go to Pitkin for (A)/© service, 2012-2013 is the due date for the R44's, I herad that from my source.

 

If they retire all the SMEE's with Option Order II you will have a 80 car Car shortage, And Plus Option Order II R160A-1 cars orginaly was supposed to be 64 cars but it was cut in half to 32, If Option Order III happens the last 32 R160's would go to ENY to replace the what ever is left over there,

 

Like I said before, I know about gaps and car shortages, If the TA suffurs a car shortage of 80 cars in the B Divsion, People are going to go apeshit and complain about why the damn train takes to long, I don't think the TA wants to deal with that again.

 

Like I said before 32 cars can't replace 50 cars, You can do math and count your fingers.

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you mean R160A #9943 - #9974 ( 32 cars will be sent to East New

York Yard to replace 50 cars R42.

 

Before ENY is all R160, there will be 50 R32s sent to ENY to push out the R42s there because they can't hold up any more.

 

As for R32 3838, he brings up a very good point; the only reason that the R160 order is going to be larger than the figure of 1600 SMEEs is because of extra service, so I can see third option order. Remember, all the R160A-1 order did was push the R42s out of East New York in 2007; they went to Coney Island to provide extra service, and from there, the cars have been all over the place. So we may need to see another option order because the system has expanded significantly since the 60s, and as he said, riders will go bonkers if they're presented with slow service.

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Option Order II R160's can't replace all R32-42's, Its obovious that 382 cars can't replace over 500 SMEE's, Now currently around 355-365 SMEE's, Option Order III will Replace the Remaining 80 R32 Phase I's and All R44's, And these Option Order III cars will most likely go to Pitkin for (A)/© service, 2012-2013 is the due date for the R44's, I herad that from my source.

 

If they retire all the SMEE's with Option Order II you will have a 80 car Car shortage, And Plus Option Order II R160A-1 cars orginaly was supposed to be 64 cars but it was cut in half to 32, If Option Order III happens the last 32 R160's would go to ENY to replace the what ever is left over there,

 

Like I said before, I know about gaps and car shortages, If the TA suffurs a car shortage of 80 cars in the B Divsion, People are going to go apeshit and complain about why the damn train takes to long, I don't think the TA wants to deal with that again.

 

Like I said before 32 cars can't replace 50 cars, You can do math and count your fingers.

 

i cannot believe what garbage im hearing from you. Option II, which totals 1662 cars, can replace all R32s-R42s and Option III has not even been considered yet. you seem to have forgotten that there are two other yards in the Eastern Division and they have a surplus of R160s, which is why only 32 CBTC cars are needed to get rid of the last R42s at ENY.

 

you mean R160A #9943 - #9974 ( 32 cars will be sent to East New

York Yard to replace 50 cars R42.

 

Fresh Pond and Canarsie Yards have a surplus of R160s so they can go to ENY.

 

Before ENY is all R160, there will be 50 R32s sent to ENY to push out the R42s there because they can't hold up any more.

 

As for R32 3838, he brings up a very good point; the only reason that the R160 order is going to be larger than the figure of 1600 SMEEs is because of extra service, so I can see third option order. Remember, all the R160A-1 order did was push the R42s out of East New York in 2007; they went to Coney Island to provide extra service, and from there, the cars have been all over the place. So we may need to see another option order because the system has expanded significantly since the 60s, and as he said, riders will go bonkers if they're presented with slow service.

 

i want proof that R32s are going to ENY! as much as i love to see those cars on the J/Z, i refuse to believe those cases until it actually happens. i also refuse to believe R160s are going on the V and R even though i recently saw a train testing on the V.

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ok, now i'm not confused anymore, but i do have one word of advice:

 

1. if you have info that you have sources for but are not willing to post the source other than a generic website link, don't post it, people these days are too lazy to search through sites like mta.info.

 

2. i'm supprized this didn't get locked after page six.

 

3. if you guys want to keep track of outgoing contracts, go here: http://www.mta.info/nyct/procure/rfppage.htm and here:

http://www.mta.info/nyct/procure/nyctproc.htm

 

(note: you cannot go to these websites directly from the homepage. i did it by backtracking from the r188 solicitation pdf. so do yourself a favor and bookmark these pages if you want to.)

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I would laugh when you are wrong.

 

You can say that again; our expanding system needs more cars, not to mention extra service the customers want. When the R160As came to East New York in 2007, notice how not a single car was being retired yet, they were just pushed around. Not even in 2008 when ENY received all their R160s had retirement began. So I'll be laughing too. There will be a third option order, everyone watch.

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Yes, Ive had enough with the damn talk about of R179/R188 Bs. Thats not happening for another few yrs... People are just concluding things without proof. One saying they have a specification of the R179 another persons saying its not gonna be 75ft but 60 ft. Which is driving me nuts.

 

If anyone here was to work with the (MTA), the top people in the company, then we can possiably rely on them. Not even RTO/Bus/Engineer people here knows whats the issue...

 

We are STILL dealing with R160! Whats the big rush for moving on. R160s is still in production. And I wanna focus on R160s and what happening to the R32s and the rest of the OTTs!

Well since I was one of the people speculating about the R179s I might as well reply to you. I wasn't talking based on a source...then again I was, I was using the capital plan itself as my source. There's enough cars to replace the R44s, IF the cars are 60-feet long because the math supports the claim that whatever cars will be replacing the R44s will be 60-footers. 340 60 footers = 272 75-footers (R44) and 80 60-footers = 64 75-footers (SIRR44). That's why I think this order will be 60-feet.

Option Order II R160's can't replace all R32-42's, Its obovious that 382 cars can't replace over 500 SMEE's, Now currently around 355-365 SMEE's, Option Order III will Replace the Remaining 80 R32 Phase I's and All R44's, And these Option Order III cars will most likely go to Pitkin for (A)/© service, 2012-2013 is the due date for the R44's, I herad that from my source.

 

If they retire all the SMEE's with Option Order II you will have a 80 car Car shortage, And Plus Option Order II R160A-1 cars orginaly was supposed to be 64 cars but it was cut in half to 32, If Option Order III happens the last 32 R160's would go to ENY to replace the what ever is left over there,

 

Like I said before, I know about gaps and car shortages, If the TA suffurs a car shortage of 80 cars in the B Divsion, People are going to go apeshit and complain about why the damn train takes to long, I don't think the TA wants to deal with that again.

 

Like I said before 32 cars can't replace 50 cars, You can do math and count your fingers.

I'm saying there's not gonna be a third option order, because if there were leftover SMEE's by the end of the order then the MTA would have accomodated those cars in the capital plan.

Before ENY is all R160, there will be 50 R32s sent to ENY to push out the R42s there because they can't hold up any more.

 

As for R32 3838, he brings up a very good point; the only reason that the R160 order is going to be larger than the figure of 1600 SMEEs is because of extra service, so I can see third option order. Remember, all the R160A-1 order did was push the R42s out of East New York in 2007; they went to Coney Island to provide extra service, and from there, the cars have been all over the place. So we may need to see another option order because the system has expanded significantly since the 60s, and as he said, riders will go bonkers if they're presented with slow service.

Do you have a source for the first statement? And the R160 order already outnumbers the total of the old SMEE's with the first two option orders already.

You can say that again; our expanding system needs more cars, not to mention extra service the customers want. When the R160As came to East New York in 2007, notice how not a single car was being retired yet, they were just pushed around. Not even in 2008 when ENY received all their R160s had retirement began. So I'll be laughing too. There will be a third option order, everyone watch.

Cars were being retired as early as January 2008 - those were the CI R42s and the GE R32s.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZm47SrmuwM&feature=channel_page

 

@ this entire thread. I hope this thread doesn't get locked as its pretty entertaining (In a good way). Flushingexpress reply to R32 3838 about the option orders is the best, that first sentence alone had me LMAO. This thread is great! :cool:

 

Well, I'm glad you enjoy it! :P

 

All jokes aside, it's shocking how much everyone's foaming their butts off over this topic. There are people here who simply think that they know it all when they don't, while others base all their info on logic and facts.

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i cannot believe what garbage im hearing from you. Option II, which totals 1662 cars, can replace all R32s-R42s and Option III has not even been considered yet. you seem to have forgotten that there are two other yards in the Eastern Division and they have a surplus of R160s, which is why only 32 CBTC cars are needed to get rid of the last R42s at ENY.

 

 

 

Fresh Pond and Canarsie Yards have a surplus of R160s so they can go to ENY.

 

 

 

i want proof that R32s are going to ENY!

 

I am going to say this for the 1,000,000,000th time, The Option Order II can't replce all of the SMEE's, How in the HELL can 382 cars replace over 500 SMEE, currently over 400, all of thsoe R40M's are replaced By R160 Option Order I but Jamaica had screwd up the whole Process by retireing some R32's and R42's That got everybody confused, If the R40M's were at 207th, They would have been gone, I am not going to give fomers my sources BOTTOM LINE, And By they way they are starting to strip the R42's, one of them 4580/81,4616/17 and another 46xx.

 

And By they way, When I post stuff, Its not garbage so do me a favour and shut your mouth, Im not the one to talk trash with.

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I am going to say this for the 1,000,000,000th time, The Option Order II can't replce all of the SMEE's, How in the HELL can 382 cars replace over 500 SMEE, currently over 400, all of thsoe R40M's are replaced By R160 Option Order I but Jamaica had screwd up the whole Process by retireing some R32's and R42's That got everybody confused, If the R40M's were at 207th, They would have been gone, I am not going to give fomers my sources BOTTOM LINE, And By they way they are starting to strip the R42's, one of them 4580/81,4616/17 and another 46xx.

 

And By they way, When I post stuff, Its not garbage so do me a favour and shut your mouth, Im not the one to talk trash with.

 

They don't understand that when the R160s first came to ENY (the R160A-1s), they didn't retire ANY cars, they just got pushed the R42s elsewhere. This happened in 2007; they don't understand that retirement on the SMEEs began in 2008. So basically, they will need to exercise another option order to replace the remaining number of SMEEs. Unfortunately, barely anyone gets that, but don't bother wasting your keystrokes man. They'll just have to wait and see since they'd rather find things out the hard way.

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