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mark1447

A/Cs for Stations

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Look i know this will cost money and electricity. But the (MTA) needs to find away to add Air Conditioners to its Stations. I'm a person who suffers dehydration, which i keep A/C on here during summer time, cant stand so much heat! Sitting in a hot a*s station and hot air blowing... Especially Late Night Service when trains are taking like 20m to an hr to show.

 

I went to 59th Street and Columbus this afternoon and that station was hot as hell! I mean seriously hot!

 

Going to 14th Street on the IRT Lex Lines Bronx Bound Side has fans, makes me feel im sitting in an R33WF car with no A/Cs.

 

42nd Street on the IRT Flushing, HOT

 

3rd Ave on the The Hub/Mott Ave WPR Line Hot

 

Jackson Hits on the QNS Blvd HOT

 

Everywhere hot

 

42nd St on the GC Lex Line A/Cs are on which isnt fair they get A/Cs.

 

Im glade tho im living near an EL by a few blocks. Even tho its summer time, i still get a good breeze

 

 

Whats Your Opinion on A/Cs for the Subway Stations?

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I think even getting outside air in would fix the issue. Dynamic brakes and other parts that spew out heat on trains would, if unchecked, heat a station to ~120° easily.

 

In winter, i also tire of going hot to cold to hot to cold, messes up my sinuses bigtime. I'd prefer it to be cool in the stations, so i a not soaking my clothes with sweat, going back out, and freezing from being soaked.

 

Just offset the electricity by placing solar panels along the subway lines, on buildings, awnings, rooftops etc. You could also use tidal turbines in the rivers & wind turbines on buildings.

 

I really like roosevelt island's (F) station, because it is very well ventilated and open & the hot air has room to rise well above platform level.

 

- A

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I think even getting outside air in would fix the issue. Dynamic brakes and other parts that spew out heat on trains would, if unchecked, heat a station to ~120° easily.

 

In winter, i also tire of going hot to cold to hot to cold, messes up my sinuses bigtime. I'd prefer it to be cool in the stations, so i a not soaking my clothes with sweat, going back out, and freezing from being soaked.

 

Just offset the electricity by placing solar panels along the subway lines, on buildings, awnings, rooftops etc. You could also use tidal turbines in the rivers & wind turbines on buildings.

 

I really like roosevelt island's (F) station, because it is very well ventilated and open & the hot air has room to rise well above platform level.

 

- A

 

What if the (MTA) can use the existing gates they have on the street level thats on the sidewalk and add a fan to bring in air, would that help?

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What if the (MTA) can use the existing gates they have on the street level thats on the sidewalk and add a fan to bring in air, would that help?

 

The only thing is, during the summer, you'd be replacing hot air with more hot air. Defeats the purpose.

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The only thing is, during the summer, you'd be replacing hot air with more hot air. Defeats the purpose.

 

True, but if u add some type of cooling pipe and have fan blow over it can cool the station down. But that may not work as much especially since the dark tunnels are bringing more hot air in and cool air is changing into heat. Even with all the hot motors in the revenue cars is messing it up more..

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It's not really the motors but the braking that adds the heat since you have the friction of the dynamic brakes system kick in, the disk brakes kicking in at 10MPH and below and the heat from the resistors. Stand next to the resistor grid when a train stops and you will notice that hot air coming up.

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True, but if u add some type of cooling pipe and have fan blow over it can cool the station down. But that may not work as much especially since the dark tunnels are bringing more hot air in and cool air is changing into heat. Even with all the hot motors in the revenue cars is messing it up more..

 

Solution: Physically separate the tracks from the platform via platform screen doors, the impracticality of which has already been discussed on these forums.

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It's not really the motors but the braking that adds the heat since you have the friction of the dynamic brakes system kick in, the disk brakes kicking in at 10MPH and below and the heat from the resistors. Stand next to the resistor grid when a train stops and you will notice that hot air coming up.

 

That's true of old tech cars with dynamic braking. New techs so long as their are other cars drawing power provide power into the third rail. Grids are just a backup if no other car is drawing power to disappate extra energy as heat.

 

A/C cars do not have starting grids per se and can run in the first point much longer than cars with DC traction motors

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I know in washington (D).(C) they have chillers....in there stations ........ur not gonna be able to but these in ever station.....too much money I say.....but how do chillers work?.......

 

 

 

 

 

(J)(F)(K)....(JFK)

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(L)(L)

What if the (MTA) can use the existing gates they have on the street level thats on the sidewalk and add a fan to bring in air, would that help?

 

 

That would raise a ton of safety issues with the public walking in and out, plus- they would get stolen really fast! The trains aren't that bad- they're pretty cool, although I walked in to an A train at 125th only to walk right out and wait for the next one because it was like a sweatbox. I don't think there is any way for them to cool off the stations with air conditioners.

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I know in washington (D).(C) they have chillers....in there stations ........ur not gonna be able to but these in ever station.....too much money I say.....but how do chillers work?.......

 

Like water chillers? We have a few in Grand Central (4)(5)(6)... apparently they use water to cool the air. How, I'm not sure.

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Look i know this will cost money and electricity. But the (MTA) needs to find away to add Air Conditioners to its Stations.

 

Whats Your Opinion on A/Cs for the Subway Stations?

 

Easiest way to cut down on heat in the stations is to turn OFF the A/C on the trains.:eek:

 

The problem with air conditioning the stations is where to put the heat that you're removing. Sole that problem and you could make a lot of people happy.

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Grand Central on the Lex does have some air cooling system. But it will be too costly to implement this system wide.

 

We are not much different from London. Actually, at least our train cars have working AC units most of the time. In London, you're advised to bring a bottle of water with you during sweltering summer days.

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Easiest way to cut down on heat in the stations is to turn OFF the A/C on the trains.:eek:

 

The problem with air conditioning the stations is where to put the heat that you're removing. Sole that problem and you could make a lot of people happy.

 

The NYC subway system was not built to handle trains with A/C. Back then, I don't think anyone would have dreamed of them.

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You could do something like this:

 

You bring air out via fans, vs passive ventilation that you have now. Hot air rises, so only when it gets really sweltering do you need to crank the fans up. So, now that this air is out, air will come in, you simply run that incoming air over cold surfaces, like a coil of pipes with cold water or such in them. Then that cold air goes into the station while the hot air comes out. Cold air sinks, so it too would not take a lot of effort.

 

If you did this with every station & vented the tunnels more, you would have a pleasant to be in subway system vs sauna. In winter reverse the process, but not too extreme, you want it cool in summer & neutral in winter so it doesn't make people sweat in their winter clothes. Simply bring the all ready cool air down, no chilling needed.

 

I am sure track workers and folks working in the stations would appreciate this too, not just the riders.

 

- A

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As previously posted, the original system was not designed for air conditioned trains spewing tons of heat., Furthermore, in some neighborhoods, the local 'civics' group or community boards have filed noise complaints, and the MTA responded by closing street venting gratings, holding in more heat.. I saw an article on the new south ferry technology, but I cant seem to locate it at this time. From memory, the new south ferry station has a system is a heat dispersal or transfer system. It pumps cool outside air below the platforms, & releases it along the roadbed. As it disperses, absorbs heat & rises from natural convection, it makes it's way out ceiling vents carrying the heat with it... If I come across where I read this, I'll link it..

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I think the SF system would be too expensive to roll out systemwide, however the exchanger system, similar but not the same as i proposed would be cost effective on every underground station. The problem with the A/C in cars, is that it's not on in winter yet the stations are still quite hot a lot of the time. It's mainly from the brakes. I say this, because when a car is full of people, the A/C basically moves the heat from inside the car to outside the car, when it's empty the cold air inside has very little removable heat. Since not all trains are crowded, A/C impact is a factor, but not the primary source. Even (NJT) EMU have heat coming up from the motors & transformers, but since the dynamic brake grid is on the top it's not as noticeable, you can still see it giving off heat when stopped, especially on cold days. The resistor grids on every train i've ever seen have warnings posted about hot surfaces, so that right there tells you most of what you need to know. The motors & reverse charge (regenerative) braking create heat too. When a train is braking into a station, that's a lot of energy, literally tons & tons of stuff pushing against electrical current. The humming sound on most MU trains you hear when the train stops is a combination of transformer hum & cooling fans blowing air over the resistor grid to keep it from overheating.

 

The fans from my idea would be in the station, not above or even near grade/street level.

 

- A

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I don't think the MTA will be able to place noticeable air conditioning in every station. This is unfortunate, which is why those who are sensitive to the heat should carry around a cool bottle of water at all times to avoid dehydration. Wear loose, comfortable clothes, also.

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A/C in the stations would NEVER work, the best way to compare it would be to try blowing up a balloon with a hole in it. Subway stations were hot decades before and probably will stay ovens for decades to come. Cooling systems would cost money out the rear end as well.

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I used to wonder if streams of air could be used as a barrier. I gort this idea from the old Dime bank between Juniors and Albee Square, which had no door to open, yet when you walk through the doorway, you're stepping across a grate, and air blows vertically from the floor to another grate in the ceiling of the doorway, and this keeps the hot air out and the cool air in.

I was never sure if that could ever work, like placed on the trackbed/ceiling at the ends of stations. Would probably be expensive, and the opening too big for it to work.

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People fail to realise that most of the subway is built in the decades where air-conditioning, platform screen doors and modern ventiliation systems were yet to be invented. Trains then had their windows open (including the railfan window) and cooling was done by either that or overhead fans (R10s). The system cannot update itself to the needs of the people overnight, plus the HVACs from the NTTs do release A LOT of hot air. Not every station is New South Ferry.

 

Anyway, when the Londoners get the 2009 Stock on the Victoria Line they will be cooked. The 2009 Stock will be the first stock ever to feature air conditioning. And according to our accounts and the design of the station (tubular), the heat will be trapped in. And no, their stations don't have AC too.

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Why do some stations appear to be much hotter than others? For example, Times Square (7) is MUCH hotter than Times Square (1)(2)(3), Flushing (7) or 59th St (A)(:((C)(D)(1).

 

Add to that the fact that Times Square (7) is below Times Square (1), and heat naturally rises.

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