mark1447 Posted August 21, 2009 Share #1 Posted August 21, 2009 I would love to see the Manhattan 42 with "special" letters similar to the M14[14A/14D]. It confuses me and some(Or Lots of) others an M42 Javit Center Bound from an M42 42nd Street Piers Bound. Yes I know the LEDs on top says it, but still people don't read. I Do Read tho. but would be easier to tell which is which.. Any thoughts on having a M42A, M42B(D or what ever)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted August 21, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 21, 2009 Leave it the way it is. The reason the M14A/M14D have the letters is cause 1. They travel on two different aves, M14A = Ave A, while the M14D is Ave D 2. They go to different destinations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted August 21, 2009 Leave it the way it is. The reason the M14A/M14D have the letters is cause 1. They travel on two different aves, M14A = Ave A, while the M14D is Ave D 2. They go to different destinations Yes but so does the M42 when heading west Bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 21, 2009 Share #4 Posted August 21, 2009 Yes but so does the M42 when heading west Bound. I just looked at the Manhattan bus map, and the M14A and the M14D are really completely separate routes that just happen to both run along 14th St for most of their run. They have separate terminals on each end. Which is what Cait Sith is saying. So the M14A/D isn't really the best thing to compare this to. Now if you want something like the Q20A/B designation, I'd understand; however, the two destinations really don't have a separate stretch long enough like the Q20 does to warrant separate designations. It seems to me that the Javits Center branch is more like an extension of the Pier branch. But that's just what I can infer from the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 21, 2009 Share #5 Posted August 21, 2009 The reasons why M14A and M14D are the way are: -They travel down the 14 Street corridor together from 9th Avenue to Avenue A, thus sharing the same line number -They have different eastbound destinations: M14A to Grand Street/FDR, M14D to Delancey Street and Columbia Street, as said the A travels down Ave A, the D travels down Ave D. I use these two routes a lot to say something about it. -They are different routes sharing the same trunk line. An analogy to this situation would be looking at the 2 and 3 trains running along the 7th Avenue line. They have different terminals on each end, a different routing towards each of their terminals, but they both travel along the same crosstown route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 21, 2009 Share #6 Posted August 21, 2009 The reasons why M14A and M14D are the way are:-They travel down the 14 Street corridor together from 9th Avenue to Avenue A, thus sharing the same line number -They have different eastbound destinations: M14A to Grand Street/FDR, M14D to Delancey Street and Columbia Street, as said the A travels down Ave A, the D travels down Ave D. I use these two routes a lot to say something about it. -They are different routes sharing the same trunk line. An analogy to this situation would be looking at the 2 and 3 trains running along the 7th Avenue line. They have different terminals on each end, a different routing towards each of their terminals, but they both travel along the same crosstown route. I was with you, up until you compared it w/ the 2 & the 3 train... a better analogy would have been w/ the 4/5 lines; at least the 5 goes to Utica (both sharing the exact same route in brooklyn).. sometimes. but anyway, few "2 train riders" in brooklyn will hop on a 3 (and vice versa)... even if they are disembarking at a stop that both those lines serve.... A good example of this, is at Nevins st (either direction, but especially w/i Brooklyn)... There are people that will wait for the 3, even if two 2 train's come first (and aren't packed or w/e)... I don't find that's the case w/ the 4 & the 5.... it feels like more of a cohesion w/ the lex expresses moreso than the 7th av expresses.... it's a stigma.. don't ask me why that is, but that's just how it is.... Is it logical, No... but it happens... and it's been that way for years regarding the 2 & the 3..... at least in Brooklyn anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 21, 2009 Share #7 Posted August 21, 2009 The M14 A and C are NOT seperate routes. The M14 is a route with two branches that serve different areas. Trust me, I've live near the M14 as well as the M9 and M21 routes since the day I was born. Besides, the M14 is the worst route in Manhattan. The M14 C is discontinued since the early 2000s. Your announcement that you live near the M14, as well as the M9 and M21 lends absolutely no air of authority. Any Joe Shmo would say: "so what?" I live very close to the M9 and the M14A. The M22 is two blocks away. The M14D is 10 minutes walking distance and I used to take it everyday. If two routings have different end terminals and even different end routings, aren't they different routes? Consider my train analogy, are you telling me that the 2 and 3 are the same routes? That the 4 and 5 are the same routes? The two bus routes travel along the same line, M14. M14 is the line designation. But the A and the D suffixes indicate that the routes are different, that they go on separate routings. I was with you, up until you compared it w/ the 2 & the 3 train... a better analogy would have been w/ the 4/5 lines; at least the 5 goes to Utica (both sharing the exact same route in brooklyn).. sometimes. but anyway, few "2 train riders" in brooklyn will hop on a 3 (and vice versa)... even if they are disembarking at a stop that both those lines serve.... A good example of this, is at Nevins st (either direction, but especially w/i Brooklyn)... There are people that will wait for the 3, even if two 2 train's come first (and aren't packed or w/e)... I don't find that's the case w/ the 4 & the 5.... it feels like more of a cohesion w/ the lex expresses moreso than the 7th av expresses.... it's a stigma.. don't ask me why that is, but that's just how it is.... Is it logical, No... but it happens... and it's been that way for years regarding the 2 & the 3..... at least in Brooklyn anyway... I understand your points well, however I find the 2 and 3 trains a better analogy. The 2 and the 3 shares the same line between 135th Street and Franklin. (For most of the day, at least) Same scenario with the M14 bus routes, the A and the D share the routing between 9th Avenue and Avenue A. But look, the 3 goes to 148th, branching away from the 2 after 135th. And the 2 goes away to do its stint in the Bronx. The M14A turns at 9th Avenue to head over to Abindgon Square. The M14D continues on to Chelsea Piers. Now, the 2 leaves the Eastern Parkway line and continues along Nostrand Avenue to Flatbush. The 3 goes to New Lots. A similar situation exists at Avenue A, the M14A shoots down Avenue A, turning on Grand Street heading to FDR. The M14D continues down 14th Street to Avenue C, then turning onto Avenue D, turning left at Houston, continuing on the FDR Drive to Delancey and Columbia. That's the explanation for the analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 22, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 22, 2009 The M14 is a route with two branches that serve different areas. That's exactly the way I see it..... I don't see it as two separate routes... the differences b/w the endpoints aren't too far away from each other, on either end.... To me, 2 separate routes = a totally separate core group of riders on each route.... I don't think that's the case w/ the M14 branches.... They both serve the Lower east side (just different parts/blocks/whatever), and they both travel down 14th st... I'm not going to bother with being "technical" like some ppl. might... any minor deviation from a route would make it a separate route; and quite frankly, it's a petty argument.... --------------- I understand your points well, however I find the 2 and 3 trains a better analogy. The 2 and the 3 shares the same line between 135th Street and Franklin. (For most of the day, at least) Same scenario with the M14 bus routes, the A and the D share the routing between 9th Avenue and Avenue A. But look, the 3 goes to 148th, branching away from the 2 after 135th. And the 2 goes away to do its stint in the Bronx. The M14A turns at 9th Avenue to head over to Abindgon Square. The M14D continues on to Chelsea Piers. far as the 2/3 vs the 4/5 comparison.... well, we'll just have to differ, no christopher wallace [biggie].... I was looking at things from the perspective of ridership habits, over than just the routing itself....there are far more ppl that take the 3 on the Brooklyn end, and far more ppl that take the 2 on the bronx end (obviously... lol)..... with the 4 & the 5, I don't think the difference is as drastic... I know there are more ppl that take the D on the western end over the A; at least in the afternoon anyway (b/c I often head to union sq for lunch... I'm one of the few that's still left on the bus after the bus turns onto 9th av, on my way back to work).... the D's that pass by have more ppl on it than A's tend to... On the eastern end, however, I simply don't know about ridership patterns.. I'm not going to lie about it... Do more ppl. take the 14a over the 14d heading east? is it about equal? you tell me..... to sum it up (somewhat), I also don't think the difference in ridership is too drastic b/w the endpoints of the 14a/d on each end.... damn did this get off topic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 22, 2009 Share #9 Posted August 22, 2009 The point is not about how much research you did, how many Fishbowls you took, how many years you lived in your "turf". I stick to my points and believe firmly in them. Just because somebody said something different, I will not change my mind. Believe what you want to believe, I refuse to change my opinion and beliefs. The fundamental topic of this thread is about the M42, not about how much you lived in the East Village or how right you are. Recently, I found in several threads that you just attack me for no apparent reason or find some reason to prove me wrong. I am going to say this once, I am not here to start arguments. If you continue to respond here in a negative manner or persist to attack me without reason, I will report you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 22, 2009 Share #10 Posted August 22, 2009 I would love to see the Manhattan 42 with "special" letters similar to the M14[14A/14D]. It confuses me and some(Or Lots of) others an M42 Javit Center Bound from an M42 42nd Street Piers Bound. Yes I know the LEDs on top says it, but still people don't read. I Do Read tho. but would be easier to tell which is which.. Any thoughts on having a M42A, M42B(D or what ever)... The M42, the B41, B38, Q10, Q11, the Q5/85, the Q46, etc etc all have something in common.... The fact that each of those routes branch out (wherever) on only one end of their routes.... No one makes any mention of a Q5/85G or w/e, a Q46G/L (glen oaks/LIJ hosp, respectively)... although there was a Q10 that took the vanwyck expwy directly to the Airport (q10a), no one makes a mention of there (should) being a Q10L or w/e.... same deal with a supposed B41K/V.... With the B41, I can tell you, 10 times out of 10, veterans av bound buses are MUCH emptier than kings plz. bound buses... I don't care if it's a weekend or a weekday.... this is how I can tell which spur is which w/o even looking @ the destination sign.... With the Q10, airport employees take w/e comes/goes (as long as it's not the short-turn Q10), but for those that board the 150th/130th Q10, it's a good chance those are people are going home or w/e, as the areas where the Q10 branch off, are highly residential.... The Q11 splits at Hamilton/Howard bch due to lack of layover space @ either SB terminal... The bulk of Q11 riders could give a dam as to which spur arrives, as the same core group of riders will board, regardless... The Q46, I find that more ppl. are more apt to boarding a LIJ bound bus over a Glen Oaks bound bus (especially waiting @ the Union Tpke station [E/F]... that probably has to do with LIJ buses being LTD's.... HudsonRiver wants to change the Veterans av spur of the B41 to the "B40"... Now I see this mention of wanting to (at least) see the M42 route notation w/ suffixes on them... eh, I don't think either case is warranted... With the M42, it's all about which attraction/bldg. is highly active/busy @ the time... during the day, I notice if you see a lot of kids (summer school trips or w/e) on the M42, they're taking it to the pier.... If you see a moderate to high amt. of crowding on the M42, that's a Javits bound bus (especially during middays to just before the PM rush).... Both of those scenarios are "seasonal", for the most part... But on a normal day, either spur west of 9th st, is virtually empty... I think it's a similar situation w/ the M42 as the Q11; as most M42 WB riders are getting off at PABT/8th av - so it's like, who cares if the bus is heading to Javits or the pier..... So there's little need for a M42a/b, etc.... Sure adding suffixes would be easier... but if ppl. don't read the destination signs anyway, what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 22, 2009 Share #11 Posted August 22, 2009 Most local bus routes have only 1 or 2 distinct end terminals, letter suffixes won't really serve any significance unless there are 3 or more distinct branches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted August 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted August 22, 2009 The M14D, since it travels the length of East 14th Street (though it uses Avenue C between East 14th and East 10th Streets now) seems to be the more important of the two branches of the M14. The M14 schedule shows a pattern of two and three via Avenue D buses to a single via Avenue A (during most of the day). Another thing about the M14: Since it has two branches, the M14D is free to serve Chelsea Piers while M14As serve the West Village (except late nights). I might be wrong but I think the M14C branch was discontinued in 2002 in favor of M21 service from Houston Street. Until 1980, today's M9 was the Avenue B and East Broadway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 23, 2009 Share #13 Posted August 23, 2009 The M14D, since it travels the length of East 14th Street (though it uses Avenue C between East 14th and East 10th Streets now) seems to be the more important of the two branches of the M14. The M14 schedule shows a pattern of two and three via Avenue D buses to a single via Avenue A (during most of the day). Another thing about the M14: Since it has two branches, the M14D is free to serve Chelsea Piers while M14As serve the West Village (except late nights). I might be wrong but I think the M14C branch was discontinued in 2002 in favor of M21 service from Houston Street. Until 1980, today's M9 was the Avenue B and East Broadway. You are correct, during school days, I stood many times for a 14A at Union and there are more M14Ds than there are As. More importantly, there is a crowd at that stop and when the D comes, almost all of the crowd is fighting to get on. Talking about AM rush, I've seen bus after bus stop at the Houston and Ave D stop. I've waited 20 minutes for my friend to get down and I've counted at least 7-10 buses on average, sometimes even more. IIRC, the C was eliminated because of redundancy. The D travels a length of Ave C and plus the Ave D stops are just one (long) block away. The M21 also travels down Ave C, so they decided to send more buses to the M14D to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 23, 2009 Share #14 Posted August 23, 2009 False. You don't seem to know the REAL reason why the M14 pattern was changed in 2002. Your last statement is wrong on so many levels. I'm only going to say this once, there are less M14C/D buses now than six years ago. The emergence of Articulated buses on the M14 caused a service decrease in the amount of runs. To me, it seems like you haven't lived in Chinatown for long. If you rode the M14 when 40-footers dominated the line, then you'll see where I'm coming from. The only route that benefited due to the arrival of Artic on the M14 is the M9. The M9 runs more frequenly now than back in 2003. Doesn't matter if I'm wrong, you've drag this thread so off-topic that you're starting to make personal attacks against me. My area of residence or how many years I've lived in a certain district do not question my knowledge. I based my statements on what I see, not what I study. I'm not going to fret, I'll let Julio or Harry handle this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 23, 2009 Share #15 Posted August 23, 2009 Why would I leave the forum just because of somebody directing attacks and driving threads off-topic? This thread deserves a lock on it. :lock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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