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If you could make service anyway you wanted, how would make it?


NYCTNostalgia

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Is there really a need for a 4th track past Church? I mean are there that many non-peak direction riders during the rush hours? I think it seems 3 tracks is good enough.

 

no there is not. there are only five stations south of church avenue that express trains can bypass (Ditmas Avenue, Bay Parkway, Avenue N, Avenue P, Avenue I), so that would only save you 2-3 minutes the most. in fact, there is no probably no need for express service on the Culver Line unless you want straight express service from Kings Highway to Jay Street, which would cause conflict with heavily used local stations north of Church Avenue. anyway, here are some changes i would do:

 

(5): extended to Grand Central Terminal late nights via Bronx local and Lexington Avenue express (similar to how the (3) ends at 42nd Street-Times Square)

(A): all trains go to the Rockaways only, alternating between Rockaway Park and Far Rockaway (discontinuing Rockaway Park Shuttle). late night, all trains to Far Rockaway and free shuttle buses run to Rockaway Park from Beach 67th Street.

(;): run on weekends between 145th Street and Brighton Beach unless construction on the Manhattan Bridge takes place.

(C): extended to Lefferts Boulevard whenever it operates. late night shuttle remain the same.

(J)(Z): skip-stop service extended to entire rush hour frame.

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no there is not. there are only five stations south of church avenue that express trains can bypass (Ditmas Avenue, Bay Parkway, Avenue N, Avenue P, Avenue I), so that would only save you 2-3 minutes the most. in fact, there is no probably no need for express service on the Culver Line unless you want straight express service from Kings Highway to Jay Street, which would cause conflict with heavily used local stations north of Church Avenue. anyway, here are some changes i would do:

 

(5): extended to Grand Central Terminal late nights via Bronx local and Lexington Avenue express (similar to how the (3) ends at 42nd Street-Times Square)

(A): all trains go to the Rockaways only, alternating between Rockaway Park and Far Rockaway (discontinuing Rockaway Park Shuttle). late night, all trains to Far Rockaway and free shuttle buses run to Rockaway Park from Beach 67th Street.

(;): run on weekends between 145th Street and Brighton Beach unless construction on the Manhattan Bridge takes place.

(C): extended to Lefferts Boulevard whenever it operates. late night shuttle remain the same.

(J)(Z): skip-stop service extended to entire rush hour frame.

 

I really don't know about this. Anytime I see anyone say "have the C run to Lefferts", I have to ask if it is such a good idea. Because by the time the C gets to Rockaway Blvd, I'm sure riders would rather get off to take the A train than to stay on the C all the way to Grant or Euclid. I could say if you have the A run on the express track to bypass all the stops and go directly to Euclid, then you might have something. Also those 3 Lefferts stations have about as much ridership as all of the Far Rockaway stations total. So if anything Lefferts should be more a priority.

As for the Rock Park S, keep it. If you ride it in the midday hours, a 4-car train is more than enough. There's no need for the A to run on it except the 5 rush hour trains. But I do agree about replacing the Rk Pk S with a bus shuttle though. I'm sure one bus can easily replace an entire train.

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This is the way I see it. (A) and (C) trains are approaching the junction. I would say that the (C) train passes through the junction first. When it gets to Euclid Avenue, holding lights come on. The (A) coming across the platform won't have to be held up as a result, and so (A) riders won't have to lose time while heading to Manhattan.. The longest this process should take is a minute.

 

This is why I proposed a weekday (K) train to operate in Manhattan only, and have the (C) go express. This way, riders who don't want to get off the (C) can look forward to an express run in Manhattan. But the only problem here is the (A), (C) and (D) sharing the express track north of 59th Street.

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no there is not. there are only five stations south of church avenue that express trains can bypass (Ditmas Avenue, Bay Parkway, Avenue N, Avenue P, Avenue I), so that would only save you 2-3 minutes the most. in fact, there is no probably no need for express service on the Culver Line unless you want straight express service from Kings Highway to Jay Street, which would cause conflict with heavily used local stations north of Church Avenue. anyway, here are some changes i would do:

 

(5): extended to Grand Central Terminal late nights via Bronx local and Lexington Avenue express (similar to how the (3) ends at 42nd Street-Times Square)

(A): all trains go to the Rockaways only, alternating between Rockaway Park and Far Rockaway (discontinuing Rockaway Park Shuttle). late night, all trains to Far Rockaway and free shuttle buses run to Rockaway Park from Beach 67th Street.

(;): run on weekends between 145th Street and Brighton Beach unless construction on the Manhattan Bridge takes place.

(C): extended to Lefferts Boulevard whenever it operates. late night shuttle remain the same.

(J)(Z): skip-stop service extended to entire rush hour frame.

 

I love those ideas.

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While there are good arguments for both keeping and discarding the Rockaway Park (S), it does provide an important backup service in case there is an issue on the Far Rockaway line. I remember being on a late night (A) that couldn't carry on to Far Rockaway due to a train stuck at Beach 67th, and took the Rock Park shuttle and walked home from Beach 90th St.

 

I did once propose shortening the shuttle to two cars at night (similar to the SI Railroad), but a train operator on this forum said that cannot be done because of electrical/third rail issues in the Rockaways that would result in their being no electrical contact and a loss of power to the train.

 

I haven't been on the Rock Park shuttle on a weekend recently, and I do not know if an 8-car train is really necessary, but you couldn't do away with the shuttle altogether. Other than weekends, however, regular 8-car (A) trains do not need to serve the Rock Park branch as there are simply too few riders, and this would increase headways on the better-used Far Rockaway line.

 

Shuttle bus service between Broad Channel and Rockaway Park would make a lot of sense, but it would have to use the Cross Bay Bridge and enter the Rockaways at Beach 95th St, meaning Beach 90th St would probably have to get off 5 blocks away from their present stop, unless the bus turns eastward after entering the Rockaways and does a U-turn at Beach 90th. With the few riders on the Rock Park branch late nights, this shouldn't be such a problem. I think late nights the shuttle should be replaced with buses from Broad Channel.

 

The Beach 90th stop is important as it's near the Dayton Shopping Complex, a strip mall where most Rockaways residents do their shopping, often while returning home in the evening. Beach 116th is also in a thriving commercial area, but Beach 98th and Beach 105th are two of the least used stops in the subway. This poses problems for the (MTA), as it cannot eliminate service in the region altogether, but ridership does not warrant full-time (A) service either.

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(B) Extended to 167 St Middays and Evenings

(2) 24/7 Express in Manhattan

(3) Extended to South ferry as a local late nights

(5) Extended to 42 St Grand Central late nights

(6) Extended to Bowling Green late nights

(5) Express service expanded 6:00am - 10:00am, 3:30pm - 8:30pm

<5> 238 St service expanded 6:21am - 8:48am, 3:39pm - 6:02pm

<6> Expanded 6:02am - 12:32pm, 12:30pm - 9:09pm

9:15pm (6) becomes 9:14pm (6) to make sure evening local service headways are no greater than 10 minutes

(V) service ends one hour earlier on weekdays

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