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keysersoze

Could the IND run 11-car trains nowadays?

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Ok, so I understand there was a period of time in the 1950's when the IND ran 11-car trains of R1-9 cars (mainly on the (F), IIRC).

Apart from the fact that all cars in the fleet today come in linked sets multipliable only by the factor of 2, would it theoretically be possible to run 11-car trains on the IND by means of platform length, length of signaling blocks, etc.

 

I see lots of IND trains are extremely crowded, so it probably wouldn't be too bad an idea. Maybe linked R160 sets of 4+5 cars could form 11 car-trains for routes such as the (E) and (F) if ridership continues to grow while tracks are at their capacity.

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They actually did run a test with 11 cars on the (F) line, however it failed. Some platform lengths are not wide enough to handle 11 cars. Plus, the (F) line runs on former BMT trackage in Brooklyn, most if not all of those stations could only fit 10 car trains.

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Also, in addition to platform length, the IND train cars aren't singles like some cars on the Flushing line are. They are either married pairs or linked in sets.

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Also, in addition to platform length, the IND train cars aren't singles like some cars on the Flushing line are. They are either married pairs or linked in sets.

 

But, if the (MTA) really does want to expand to 11-cars, they could extend the shorter platforms to the 660ft length. AND, they could order single cars like they do for the (7).

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They could remove the links from the R160 5-car sets and make them get retrofitted with couplers to run longer trains, but then they'll have to lenghten the platforms for this. In the situation that the MTA's in right now, if they believe that this option would be more expensive to implement than beneficial, they most likely will not do this.

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They could remove the links from the R160 5-car sets and make them get retrofitted with couplers to run longer trains, but then they'll have to lenghten the platforms for this. In the situation that the MTA's in right now, if they believe that this option would be more expensive to implement than beneficial, they most likely will not do this.

 

So basically, you are suggesting a B Division R188? (Don't attack me for saying those numbers. I've seen what can happen when R179 or R188 is mentioned.)

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If it saves the MTA money to lenghten a couple hundred stations, then maybe. The best solution would be to run trains closer together.

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Only on the F, but the test was a failure and the project would've been too expensive.

 

Correct. Exactly what cars did they use to do this? And if they did use R32s, which they probably did, how did they make the consist 11 cars?

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Correct. Exactly what cars did they use to do this? And if they did use R32s, which they probably did, how did they make the consist 11 cars?

 

It had to be them since they were the majority of the 60 ft fleet type back in the day.

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It had to be them since they were the majority of the 60 ft fleet type back in the day.

 

But how did they make the consist 11 cars? What did they do, plop a single unit somewhere in the middle?

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But how did they make the consist 11 cars? What did they do, plop a single unit somewhere in the middle?

 

I remember some place that they put an R33 single. Sorry if I'm mistaken.

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Correct. Exactly what cars did they use to do this? And if they did use R32s, which they probably did, how did they make the consist 11 cars?

 

 

They used R160's,not R32.all they did was add another car to a 5-car unit.

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False. First of all, they did test out an 11-car (F) train earlier this year. Secondly, most stations on the (F) line CAN handle 11-car trains. The IND planners built the stations longer than they should have.

Objection to your second statement.

You only mentioned the IND portion from Church on forward, which was true as the early planners did plan for longer trains, but what about the BMT portion south of Church Avenue? That segment was not run by the IND or was built by the IND. Up to Unification, it was BMT. While there could be platform extensions, those platforms could be 615 or 630 feet long, but not all of them are at least 660 feet long. I don't think every station along the F line, from Coney Island to Jamaica-179th, passing through the BMT segment could handle 11 car trains.

 

Plus there is always the risk of the T/O overshooting the train, as some station lengths are smaller than others. The T/O has to be uber-careful to be on the spot and that all doors could open.

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The IND did not want to follow the same pitfalls as the BRT and IRT systems. All BMT Southern Division stations HAD to extended by about 100-125 feet. Originally, the BRT ordered 67-foot cars for their system. As time progressed and the advent of the new R types, they had no other choice but to extend the platforms. The notion was to have BMT Southern Division stations to be able to platform 10 60-foot subway trains.

 

Going back to the IND for a sec. Every point I made above is a perfect example of why the IND went all out and made sure that every car can platform at every station. I could list specific examples but I want everybody to look for them. I bet you didn't even know everything I've stated in this post.

Look, you are so zealous about your being right that you had left a clear Achilles' foot here. You said "...as time progressed and the advent of the new R types, they had no other choice but to extend the platforms. The notion was to have BMT Southern Division stations to be able to platform 10 60-foot subway trains.

 

First of all, a subway train can't really be 60 feet right?

Now second, you said they extend the platforms to accommodate 600 feet long trains, of which I have taken into account, but does it mean it could platform 660 feet trains?

 

To you, I'm an ignoramus. What are you to me? An egocentrist. All you think about is, "I am always right, I must prove other people wrong". Maybe I am wrong, but this behaviour is what I've seen for the past 2 weeks. Everything evolves on what you think is true. I'm sorry, this is not how the forum functions. On several threads I've posted in, you fight in them, trying to prove you're right, I'm wrong. Please, for the sake of the forums, change your attitude.

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^^^Seems like someone can't handle the truth^^^

 

If you don't like what I say, then leave the fourm entirely.

It's not that somebody couldn't handle the truth. It's just that an apparent truth is false.

 

Gee, I really hate to see the forums being trashed. I hate to say it but, if you don't like my presence and what I say, YOU leave. I've had it with your thread trashing.

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According to the article:

The test train wasn't going to pick up passengers - and for good reason. In some stations, the train wasn't expected to fit completely.

 

Along one stretch in Brooklyn, the last car was closed off because the stations platforms were 600 feet long while the trains were 660 feet in length.

The media can lie, but I don't think it will lie about this.

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By the way which stations on the (F) can handle 11 car trains?

 

According to the above, I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, stations on the (F) can use 11-car trains, except for those on the BMT Culver section.

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