NYC Express Buses: What buses should be cut and which ones should be expanded?

[Q43 Floral Park]

My revised express bus ideas 1/7/2010

 

Staten Island

 

X3-eliminated (its basically a X1 short run); additional X1 and X4 service

 

X17-new Sunday service, hourly from 7 AM to 8 PM

 

X18-eliminated

 

X20-eliminated

 

X22-possible additional service, contingent on ridership

 

Queens

 

I would streamline all of the QM1 and QM1A routes

 

The QM1 would run from NST to Midtown via Union Turnpike

 

The QM1A would run from NST to Lower Manhattan via Union Turnpike

 

The QM5 would run from Glen Oaks to Midtown. At 188 street it will head north towards the LIE and then operate nonstop to the Queens-Midtown Tunnel

 

The QM5A would run from Glen Oaks to Lower Manhattan (also via the LIE)

 

There would be no more Fresh Meadows buses. The QM5 and QM5a would make stops in Fresh Meadows

 

QM3-merge with X51

 

QM4-rush hour, peak direction only (to Manhattan 6:30-9:15 AM. To Queens 4-7 PM)

 

QM10 and QM12-merged

 

QM21-rush hour, peak direction only (the reverse peak runs from Rochdale between 3 and 7 PM would be eliminated. The last run from Manhattan would be 8 PM)

 

QM22- eliminated

 

QM23- eliminated, additional QM15 service

 

X51- see QM3

 

X63- last bus from Manhattan 9 PM, service every 20 minutes from 7-9 PM

 

X68- last bus from Manhattan 8 PM

 

Brooklyn

 

BM4- rush hour, peak direction only

 

B103-restored to its pre-takeover route

 

X29-eliminated

 

Bronx

 

Obtain special permit from DOT to allow buses to use Henry Hudson. I've seen the highway. There's nothing that prevents a MCI D4500 from using it. OOS buses deadhead on the Henry Hudson

 

BxM2- via Henry Hudson from the Bronx to Columbus Circle

 

BxM4A/B- rush hour, peak direction only

 

BxM6-merge with BxM10 (select BxM10 buses would operate via BxM6 route and Unionport and White Plains road before resuming BxM10 route)

 

BxM7- offpeak merge with BxM7A

 

Manhattan

 

X25- eliminated

 

They canned the NST-Downtown runs for a reason... No one was using it. I've been on a packed QM1A from downtown and had all of 4 people get off at Chevy Chase for the NST bus. I agree with the QM5 though

 

What route is this combined QM10/12 running? that just sounds bad

 

QM3/X51 I agree but they need to take out that unnecessary E/B portion on Northern Blvd

 

Bxm2 gets most of its riders going/coming from south of 59th St and the HH Pkwy gets horrible traffic rush hours

 

Most of the runs at 11pm get a decent amount of riders

[B35 via Church]

Bronx

 

Bxm1/2: remain...

Bxm1's run way too frequent during the off peak hrs (especially) though... should be similar to the headways of the BxM2...

 

Bxm3 - remain

 

Bxm4a/4b... consolidated into one route....

the current 4a ends where it does b/c there's no need for the extra service going up to Katonah av (which makes sense).... the Lehman coll. bound buses pretty much die after it hits Jerome/Gun Hill, so what I thought about was this....

 

about 2/3rds of the runs start at Montefiore (Gun Hill/Bainbridge)... the other 1/3rd starts @ Katonah/242nd... headways to be determined, although I think 1/2 hour headways b/w exp. buses along GC is a bit much....

 

Bxm6 - remain, as a rush hr. only route...

 

as much as I think this should be extended somewhere, I can't think of anywhere w/i the general area... I don't think this should be merged w/ anything.... nor do I think this route should be gone, outright...

 

Bxm7 - service expansion, weekdays; if not 24/7, then run it like the old x1 was; 22/7 or w/e it was....

Bxm7a - remain

Bxm7b - gone

 

Bxm9 - remain; could serve some more of throgs neck...

 

...off E. tremont, have buses turn onto Miles av, onto Balcom, onto Harding, then continue onto current route...

 

Bxm10 - remain, but revamped...

 

...coming off the Bx rvr. pkwy, onto Pelham Pkwy, onto Williamsbridge rd, onto Morris Park av, via current routing... most of this route's usage is along Eastchester rd...

 

* the point of this is to take buses off the stretch of Morris Park av (where it doesn't get much usage anyway) & make it more useful elsewhere possibly....

 

...instead of merging it w/ the Bxm6.

 

Bxm11 - remain

 

Bxm18 - gone.... half of the current Bxm18 runs, travel from Lwr. Manhattan via the BxM1 route, and the other half via the BxM2 route....

 

In other words, certain Bxm1 & certain Bxm2 runs travel to Lwr. Manhattan (these particular runs would be rush hr. only)

-----------------------------

 

 

...and the Bx. expresses run a wee bit too frequent on Saturdays... some "fat" could be trimmed by killing off runs on most the routes (this is not only a problem w/ the Bx expresses, but I mention it right now b/c these are the Bronx suggestions I'm making)....

[cotb16]

Bronx

 

Bxm1/2: remain...

Bxm1's run way too frequent during the off peak hrs (especially) though... should be similar to the headways of the BxM2...

 

Bxm3 - remain

 

Bxm4a/4b... consolidated into one route....

the current 4a ends where it does b/c there's no need for the extra service going up to Katonah av (which makes sense).... the Lehman coll. bound buses pretty much die after it hits Jerome/Gun Hill, so what I thought about was this....

 

about 2/3rds of the runs start at Montefiore (Gun Hill/Bainbridge)... the other 1/3rd starts @ Katonah/242nd... headways to be determined, although I think 1/2 hour headways b/w exp. buses along GC is a bit much....

 

Bxm6 - remain, as a rush hr. only route...

 

as much as I think this should be extended somewhere, I can't think of anywhere w/i the general area... I don't think this should be merged w/ anything.... nor do I think this route should be gone, outright...

 

Bxm7 - service expansion, weekdays; if not 24/7, then run it like the old x1 was; 22/7 or w/e it was....

Bxm7a - remain

Bxm7b - gone

 

Bxm9 - remain; could serve some more of throgs neck...

 

...off E. tremont, have buses turn onto Miles av, onto Balcom, onto Harding, then continue onto current route...

 

Bxm10 - remain, but revamped...

 

...coming off the Bx rvr. pkwy, onto Pelham Pkwy, onto Williamsbridge rd, onto Morris Park av, via current routing... most of this route's usage is along Eastchester rd...

 

* the point of this is to take buses off the stretch of Morris Park av (where it doesn't get much usage anyway) & make it more useful elsewhere possibly....

 

...instead of merging it w/ the Bxm6.

 

Bxm11 - remain

 

Bxm18 - gone.... half of the current Bxm18 runs, travel from Lwr. Manhattan via the BxM1 route, and the other half via the BxM2 route....

 

In other words, certain Bxm1 & certain Bxm2 runs travel to Lwr. Manhattan (these particular runs would be rush hr. only)

-----------------------------

 

 

...and the Bx. expresses run a wee bit too frequent on Saturdays... some "fat" could be trimmed by killing off runs on most the routes (this is not only a problem w/ the Bx expresses, but I mention it right now b/c these are the Bronx suggestions I'm making)....

 

The BxM7A would be gone, replaced by the BxM6 and BxM9.

 

For the BxM6, I suggest it run to Edgewater Park, replacing parts of the BxM7A and BxM9.

 

Route: Edgewater, Throggs Neck Service Rd, Schley, Clarence, Philip, Dean, Stadium, Country Club, Jarvis, Middletown, Westchester, Tremont, Castle Hill, Metropolitan, then regular route.

 

Stops after Metro Oval...

Purdy St/Metro Av

Castle Hill/Tremont

Westchester Square

Crosby Av/Middletown Rd

Bruckner Blvd/Jarvis Av

Stadium Av/Country Club Rd

Layton Av/Dean Av

Philip Av

Schley Av/Clarence Av

Ellsworth AV/SChley Av

Edgewater Park

 

This would take a huge load off the BxM9. I would do the following for the BxM9:

 

It would run to Locust Point, replacing the BxM7A on Bruckner Blvd west of Tremont Avenue.

 

Route: Locust Pt Dr, Harding Av, Balcom, Randall, Tremont, Bruckner

 

Stops

Tierney Pl/Longstreet Av

Pennyfield/Harding

Throggs Neck Blvd

Tremont Av

Balcom Av

Miles/Balcom

Dewey

Cross Bronx/Randall

Randall/Tremont

Lafayette Av

Tremont/Bruckner

Balcom Av

Castle Hill Av

White Plains Rd

Rosedale Av

[B35 via Church]

I'm all for a free exchange of ideas, but it's your reasoning behind these latest 2 I'm iffy about...

 

The current BxM9 doesn't have a "huge load" to the point where it needs an extended & altered route to support it....

[Forest Glen]

They canned the NST-Downtown runs for a reason... No one was using it. I've been on a packed QM1A from downtown and had all of 4 people get off at Chevy Chase for the NST bus. I agree with the QM5 though

 

What route is this combined QM10/12 running? that just sounds bad

 

QM3/X51 I agree but they need to take out that unnecessary E/B portion on Northern Blvd

 

Bxm2 gets most of its riders going/coming from south of 59th St and the HH Pkwy gets horrible traffic rush hours

 

Most of the runs at 11pm get a decent amount of riders

 

You misunderstood my BxM2 idea. It would operate nonstop via the Henry Hudson from the Bronx to 59 street (the end of the highway). From there it would head to Columbus Circle before resuming its normal route to 34 Street.

[B35 via Church]

My revised express bus ideas 1/7/2010

 

Staten Island

 

X22-possible additional service, contingent on ridership

The x22... umm, I don't think addt'l service is needed...

 

but I will say is that, the amt. of runs b/w 5-7 pm need to be balanced out.... what I mean is, x22's come too frequent b/w 5-6pm (about the same freq. as 17J's, which I think is overkill for the 22 around that time), and rather sparse b/w 6-7pm....

 

the latter is the reason why x23's/24's are so packed around 6-7pm...

 

hope that's not confusing to you (or others)...

 

Queens

 

I would streamline all of the QM1 and QM1A routes

 

The QM1 would run from NST to Midtown via Union Turnpike

The QM1A would run from NST to Lower Manhattan via Union Turnpike

The QM5 would run from Glen Oaks to Midtown. At 188 street it will head north towards the LIE and then operate nonstop to the Queens-Midtown Tunnel

The QM5A would run from Glen Oaks to Lower Manhattan (also via the LIE)

There would be no more Fresh Meadows buses. The QM5 and QM5a would make stops in Fresh Meadows

 

Looks like these group of ideas are well thought out....

I do agree that the bevy of branches along the 1/a should be simplified somehow...

 

QM10 and QM12-merged

a full merge? I'm half & half on this... have to think more about it....

 

Bronx

 

Obtain special permit from DOT to allow buses to use Henry Hudson. I've seen the highway. There's nothing that prevents a MCI D4500 from using it. OOS buses deadhead on the Henry Hudson

 

BxM2- via Henry Hudson from the Bronx to Columbus Circle

don't care for its current indirect routing in Manhattan either, but for all practical purposes, it works w/ those riders...

 

I don't see the point in having buses travel up/down the Henry Hudson... you wouldn't save much (if any) time... Q43 floral park is right about the HH...

 

BxM4A/B- rush hour, peak direction only

yeh, I can agree to this... ridership along GC isn't the strongest... I still think the two routes should be consolidated into one.....

 

....replies in red

[Eric B]

The QM24 basically passes its area on the LIE, going way out to Rego Park before coming back, to Fresh Pond Rd, and then heading back out on Myrtle from there. It's not heavily ridden (even in an area with not much other alternatives), and perhaps that is why. It is incredibly slow. Yet cutting out the "wrong direction" Eliot portion and bringing it directly from the LIE to Fresh Pond via the Maspeth exits would reduce the ridership further.

 

So there sould be a total reconfiguration of the routes in that corridor, extending the 24, and merging it with the 11, 12, 15 or 23, or maybne even the 1/1A (a straight line from Myrtle, along Union Tpk. I woulder if that might even be quicker than staying on the LIE and taking Queens Blvd?)

 

One of the other routes could pick up Eliot, aalso exiting in Maspeth, and then rejoining the current route in Rego Park.

[NX Express]

What I would do:

 

• BM1- leave alone.
  
• BM2- see the BM5
  
• BM3- leave alone
  
• BM4- rush hour peak direction only, replaced by additional B31 service
  
• BM5- cut, replaced by the BM2 which is extended to cover all the BM5 stops.
  
• X27/X28- reduce Saturday service by 50%, cut Sunday service fully
  

 

[Forest Glen]

What I would do:

 

• BM1- leave alone.

• BM2- see the BM5

• BM3- leave alone

• BM4- rush hour peak direction only, replaced by additional B31 service

• BM5- cut, replaced by the BM2 which is extended to cover all the BM5 stops.

• X27/X28- reduce Saturday service by 50%, cut Sunday service fully

 

 

The BM5 is a faster alternative to the BM2. It circumvents the Kensington traffic mess en route to midtown.

[NX Express]

OK, then send it via the Belt. That whole detour is a waste. Make it go via highway to Ronkonkoma and back then!

[Forest Glen]

The Mill Basin drawbridge would collapse if a MCI D4500 went over it. The BM5 route is like that for a reason. If something isn't broken then it shouldn't be fixed.

[Grand Concourse]

They could just extend the BM2 further on Flatlands and cut out the segment on Pennsylvania Av [have riders take the B82 to get to Flatlands]. There's no point in the BM5 making such a long roundabout route via Queens. That's a waste of fuel to go such a long distance when all that's needed is to extend the BM2.

 

BM4 should be cut as the B31 already runs on that segment. When Kings Highway has elevators to both platforms then there no excuse for w/c riders in not having a way to get into Manhattan. W/c riders should not be an excuse to keep the BM4 running as that's what the Access a ride vans are for.

 

What's wrong with the B103? If riders want's a faster ride, that's what the Bm2 is for.

[Forest Glen]

They could just extend the BM2 further on Flatlands and cut out the segment on Pennsylvania Av [have riders take the B82 to get to Flatlands]. There's no point in the BM5 making such a long roundabout route via Queens. That's a waste of fuel to go such a long distance when all that's needed is to extend the BM2.

 

BM4 should be cut as the B31 already runs on that segment. When Kings Highway has elevators to both platforms then there no excuse for w/c riders in not having a way to get into Manhattan. W/c riders should not be an excuse to keep the BM4 running as that's what the Access a ride vans are for.

 

What's wrong with the B103? If riders want's a faster ride, that's what the Bm2 is for.

 

wrong

[Q43 Floral Park]

The Bxm18 runs really shouldn't be split into 1s and 2s as that defeats the whole purpose of it stoping at 26 and 56 sts (the latter stop came in handy for me last night) as the x-fers to the other Bx routes and Queens routes would be lost. IIRC back in the LL days some of the runs were via the BxM2s (i think the last 2-3 runs) but it'd make more sense to make the Bxm1 Super Expresses start downtown and to make a majority of the runs into Bxm3s (most people I've seen x-fer for it at 26th Street and it still serves Riverdale)

 

Forest Glen: The Bxm2 has an awful routing in Manhattan but that's not a good idea just killing service north of 59. You would do better to run it on Columbus S/B and Bway/CPW N/B to 96 and then run it on a highway. what about my other remarks.

 

Please leave the Bxm6/7A/9 alone. I find the Bxm6 a waste but theres no reasonable extension (you could run it via rosedale, westchester av and the Sheridan with new stops). The Bxm7A should just be combined with the 7B rush hours (not every run) and Bxm7 late nights, the Bxm9 is fine though. Not to mention you really can't turn a bus in Edgewater

 

I do like the Bxm4 idea but where would buses layover at?

[Grand Concourse]

wrong

 

By all means do explain in more than just a 'whineburg response'. All I see is typical save the express bus elitism. To you any express bus line is good and anything else, 'to hell with them'. And don't lump me in with the other express bus bashers, I have said some lines should be cut, but I have never said all of them should be cut. I feel there's some express lines that should be cut first to close the budget gap before the local buses. That's my main gripe about the express buses.

 

Excuse me for not caring about the express bus riders [where some buses aren't even full and some buses returning back to their respective boroughs empty, wasting fuel] over the local bus line riders.

[B35 via Church]

The Bxm18 runs really shouldn't be split into 1s and 2s as that defeats the whole purpose of it stoping at 26 and 56 sts (the latter stop came in handy for me last night) as the x-fers to the other Bx routes and Queens routes would be lost. IIRC back in the LL days some of the runs were via the BxM2s (i think the last 2-3 runs) but it'd make more sense to make the Bxm1 Super Expresses start downtown and to make a majority of the runs into Bxm3s (most people I've seen x-fer for it at 26th Street and it still serves Riverdale)

 

I can't speak for others, but for what I suggested, that transfer stop (which it's all it is) on 26th st wouldn't be lost... that stop @ 56th is so arbitrary...

 

There'd still be regular Bxm1 service, untouched....

There'd still be regular Bxm2 service, untouched....

The "split" runs on 1's & 2's that would travel to/from lwr. manhattan would run exactly the same as the current 18 does, below 26th/5th... it is after that stop (traveling NB) where both routes would diverge onto its respective roads of operation (2's along 6th/7th av's, and 1's along lex/3rd av's)... buses would begin to diverge along 34th.....

 

 

You know what, come to think of it, you're right... it doesn't even have to be split b/w the two routes... runs on the 18 can be fused to fit in with the schedule of either the bxm1 or 2 (I'd suggest the 1, since it's slightly less of a hassle to get from east midtown, to lwr manhattan via local roads, compared to getting to lwr. manhattan from penn station), but anyway....

 

I'm not saying splitting those runs is the answer... what I'm eluding to, is, something has to give... there's absolutely no reason for 3 express routes serving one general neighborhood (in this case, riverdale):

 

a) along the same corridor/roadway (riverdale av)...

said residents getting their choice of direct east side service, west side service, and "mid"-midtown & lower manhattan service.... while the..

c) rest of the expresses in the entire Borough only gets service going down 5th av & up madison av...

 

do you see what I'm getting at, bro?

 

 

Believe me, I've waited at that stop @ 26th/madison for an 18 on several occasions to see the bus empty out (or come pretty close to doing so)... I proceed to walk up the steps to dip my card, and the b/o puts one of his palms up (like, um, wait... there's ppl. getting off... lol).... I could understand that for local buses, but expresses?

 

It's a waste of service to have express buses running for a purpose to enable riders to xfer onto another express bus... I mean, at least, that's the way I see it....

[Forest Glen]

By all means do explain in more than just a 'whineburg response'. All I see is typical save the express bus elitism. To you any express bus line is good and anything else, 'to hell with them'. And don't lump me in with the other express bus bashers, I have said some lines should be cut, but I have never said all of them should be cut. I feel there's some express lines that should be cut first to close the budget gap before the local buses. That's my main gripe about the express buses.

 

Excuse me for not caring about the express bus riders [where some buses aren't even full and some buses returning back to their respective boroughs empty, wasting fuel] over the local bus line riders.

 

If you read my initial post then you'll see that I proposed cutting or curtailing the hours of several express bus routes. However, cutting the BM5 simply because it has a "funny route" is uncalled for.

[Grand Concourse]

Uncalled for? Certainly the BM2 can just cover the line, why waste fuel just to go around Brooklyn via Queens to get to Manhattan? Make it a super express and once the bus is filled then it should go direct to Manhattan.

That would: have all buses filled and save on fuel by using an existing route than to make a long 'detour'.

Also the BM2 is basically two routes so the part that covers for the BM5 would be the 'super express' and the other BM2 is a regular express.

 

And I still stand by my comments on the Bm4, it's a total waste of a line.

[Grand Concourse]

I had a trip on the BM4 from Avenue U & Gerritsen Avenue on a weekday rush hour going Manhattan bound, and on the trip, I was the only person on the bus the entire ride (allowing the operator to skip the downtown portion of the Manhattan route)

 

Very sad and thank you for confirming my suspicions about that line. SC would be better off cutting that route and send the extra buses to the other lines or to other depots.

[GreatOne2k]

I must say after looking over the Timetables on the website someone isn't doing their job I find it incomprehensible that the last Bus on the majority of the BxM routes depart for Manhattan @ 11PM with the exception of the BxM7B & BxM18 I think there should be a drastic reduction in service on those routes same with some of the QM routes is it necessary is the question

 

that would fix part of the problem with Staten Islands aging fleet because when you drastically reduce the times you can displace Buses where they are needed

 

Those buses have to leave Manhattan that late in order for them to make the 12am return trips back to the Bronx

 

Also NYC is paying for that not MTA so the more MTA Bus runs the better for MTA NYCT

[Shortline Bus]

Those buses have to leave Manhattan that late in order for them to make the 12am return trips back to the Bronx

 

Also NYC is paying for that not MTA so the more MTA Bus runs the better for MTA NYCT

 

I also agree its a joke that other than BXM7(which i agree should operate either 24/7 or at least a 22 hour a day/7 day a week) that almost all of the full time bronx express buses last manhattan bound trips are as late as 11pm is a waste of time. That money could be used to run more service during weekday midday and early evening periods for instance.

[Grand Concourse]

There's plenty of room for improvement if they can adjust the wastefulness of the Express bus service. Hell keep empty buses off the highways for one. Build more tempoary shelters for the express buses in Manhattan so they don't have to return empty.

[LRG]

There's plenty of room for improvement if they can adjust the wastefulness of the Express bus service. Hell keep empty buses off the highways for one. Build more tempoary shelters for the express buses in Manhattan so they don't have to return empty.

 

Don't some of the buses lay over in Manhattan at depots near the terminals?

[Q43 Floral Park]

I can't speak for others, but for what I suggested, that transfer stop (which it's all it is) on 26th st wouldn't be lost... that stop @ 56th is so arbitrary...

 

There'd still be regular Bxm1 service, untouched....

There'd still be regular Bxm2 service, untouched....

The "split" runs on 1's & 2's that would travel to/from lwr. manhattan would run exactly the same as the current 18 does, below 26th/5th... it is after that stop (traveling NB) where both routes would diverge onto its respective roads of operation (2's along 6th/7th av's, and 1's along lex/3rd av's)... buses would begin to diverge along 34th.....

 

 

You know what, come to think of it, you're right... it doesn't even have to be split b/w the two routes... runs on the 18 can be fused to fit in with the schedule of either the bxm1 or 2 (I'd suggest the 1, since it's slightly less of a hassle to get from east midtown, to lwr manhattan via local roads, compared to getting to lwr. manhattan from penn station), but anyway....

 

I'm not saying splitting those runs is the answer... what I'm eluding to, is, something has to give... there's absolutely no reason for 3 express routes serving one general neighborhood (in this case, riverdale):

 

a) along the same corridor/roadway (riverdale av)...

said residents getting their choice of direct east side service, west side service, and "mid"-midtown & lower manhattan service.... while the..

c) rest of the expresses in the entire Borough only gets service going down 5th av & up madison av...

 

do you see what I'm getting at, bro?

 

 

Believe me, I've waited at that stop @ 26th/madison for an 18 on several occasions to see the bus empty out (or come pretty close to doing so)... I proceed to walk up the steps to dip my card, and the b/o puts one of his palms up (like, um, wait... there's ppl. getting off... lol).... I could understand that for local buses, but expresses?

 

It's a waste of service to have express buses running for a purpose to enable riders to xfer onto another express bus... I mean, at least, that's the way I see it....

 

Technically 4 routes serve Riverdale (the Bxm3 just serves the other side and Kingsbridge Heights). It most def is a waste but the reason why I said the Bxm3 over the Bxm2 is because even having both 1&2s go downtown is overkill for that stretch. The Bxm4s would be a waste, the ECH routes are long enough as is and the Bxm11 would just get horribly delayed.

 

For the Bxm3 they should also consider a PM Super Express (2 buses start dropping off at VCP and Bailey and the intervals in between end at VC/Sedgwick) because around 510 pm theres 3 damn buses that go up at basically the same time running the full route. I know when the MTA first got YON some PM buses were ending at Bway/261 leaving at the same time as a Getty Sq bus but thats still too much overlap

 

The 11pm/12am for SOME routes is overkill. Some of them get a lot of passengers.

[Grand Concourse]

Don't some of the buses lay over in Manhattan at depots near the terminals?

 

I think some do, but I'm not sure if all of them are.