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Questions on using former names/lines as T/O and C/R


mark1447

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hey, if a worker was to announce to public that the next stop is a former station name, [instead of 149th GC thry say Mott ave] or say a line: This Manhattan bound (5) is running via the IRT WPR Exp, IRT Lenox and Broadway-7th Ave to TSQ-42nd.

 

Or for (R) This is 36th St connect with the (D)(M) via BMT West End and (N) Sea Beach Exp to stillwell

 

Would it be a misconduct of the employees to use this?

 

Yes i know it will confuse most passengers, but just wondering, Seeing a lot of workers dont do that, except maybe lines..

 

Of course I wouldnt confuse people. JUST asking!

 

thx, i know its sounds like a weird question but im very curious tho :P

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hey, if i were a c/r(or maybe t/o)[some day], and I was to annouce to public that the next stop is a former station name, [instead of 149th GC id say Mott ave] or I say a line: This Manhattan bound (5) is running via the IRT WPR Exp, IRT Lenox and Broadway-7th Ave to TSQ-42nd.

 

Or for (R) This is 36th St connect with the (D)(M) via BMT West End and (N) Sea Beach Exp to stillwell

 

Would it be a misconduct of the employees to use this?

 

Yes i know it will confuse most passengers, but just wondering, Seeing a lot of workers dont do that, except maybe lines..

 

thx, i know its sounds like a weird question but im very curious tho :P

 

if ur willing to confuse passengers just to bring up a station's former name you probably shouldn't be trying to work for this company sir...

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Sorry don't take this personal but you don't belong in the MTA. This isn't play time. It's a job and you must follow the rules. As a conductor you must help your customers get from point A to point B, doing the things like you asked while might be "cute" and funny to you, won't be funny to those that depend on those announcements.

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Sorry don't take this personal but you don't belong in the MTA. This isn't play time. It's a job and you must follow the rules. As a conductor you must help your customers get from point A to point B, doing the things like you asked while might be "cute" and funny to you, won't be funny to those that depend on those announcements.

 

Why do u always say I work for the (MTA) nether do u.. Stop saying that i do, One day i may[And i dunno]. I said if i was and not trying to be funny and anything was only asking........... and thats no offense..

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if ur willing to confuse passengers just to bring up a station's former name you probably shouldn't be trying to work for this company sir...

 

No im not, i was only asking..

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Why do u always say I work for the (MTA) nether do u.. Stop saying that i do, One day i may[And i dunno]. I said if i was and not trying to be funny and anything was only asking........... and thats no offense..

 

Where in my post did I say you work for the MTA or in any other post? I know your question was a serious and so is my response.

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Where in my post did I say you work for the MTA or in any other post? I know your question was a serious and so is my response.

 

nvm sry, i got a bit confused by this:

 

Sorry don't take this personal but you don't belong in the MTA.

 

of course i wouldnt be an ahole and confuse people. I just wanted to know if workers are allowed to do that. Espcially since i do hear some load t/o saying old names.

 

But it is allowed tho to use IRT/IND/BMT with the number route or later with its division right? Cuz I do hear many c/r using it.

 

Like Transfer to the BMT (N)(Q)(R)(W)

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You took mark1447's post too seriously. The question he was posing if its safe to refer some trunk lines by their former names. I have heard plenty of conductors say BMT and IRT as well as their trunk lines. Take the NTT as an example. The (6) would say Pelham LCL/EXP (formerly used to say BRONX EXPRESS for Pelham Expresses, never did I see BRONX LOCAL on the 142/A's), Sea Beach LCL/EXP, Brighton LCL/EXP. The point that I'm trying to make is that C/R's are safe to announce West End, Sea Beach, Brighton, and Culver since its denoted on the exterior destination signs.

 

My comment was mostly in regards to this: "I was to annouce to public that the next stop is a former station name, [instead of 149th GC id say Mott ave]".

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My comment was mostly in regards to this: "I was to annouce to public that the next stop is a former station name, [instead of 149th GC id say Mott ave]".

 

I was misleading tho on that part. But, I wouldn't, say it like that instead use annocments based on the NTT. Tho I can use IRT/IND/BMT.. I've heard many C/Rs using ii on there announcement...

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I wouldn't wanna do that. The other people who ride the subway aren't railfans like us, and might not know a thing about what you're saying, except the people from the '60s and '70s.

 

I think u mean people who lived during and before that era. I dunno if workers during that era used the letters and numbers we have today since they did had ever since R1 was introduced..

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I have hear on rare occasion C/Rs make announcements such as: "This is 14th Street. Transfer available to the IRT (1)(2)(3) and the BMT (L)." You don't hear it very often, but why you do it is said by an older C/R. I don't think (watch out as this is MY opinion) there is a problem with this as long as you also state the route number or letter. As much as the railfan in me would like it, announcing "This is 14th Street. Transfer available to the West Side IRT and BMT Canarsie Lines." Sadly doing this would not only confuse tourists, but most every day subway riders.

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If for example you were a C/R entering 149-GC, you would say, "This is 149th Street - Grand Concourse. Transfer is available to the (4) and (5) trains." If you wanted to pepper it with "Lexington Av IRT (4) and (5) trains", you could say that. Or if you wanted to say, "This is a Brooklyn Bridge-bound (6) Lexington Avenue Local train", you could say that too. As long as you use the words which are required in the Blue Book script, then adding a little here and there would not be frowned upon as long as your announcements do not affect the on-time performance of the train.

 

Now if you wanted to say, "Mott Avenue, change to the Lexington IRT", or if you wanted to be a stand-up comedian on the mic, or if you wanted to interject your bubbly personality in your announcements, then that would be a sure fire way to have a one-on-one meeting at Labor Relations. You don't want that, they're not a friendly bunch down there.

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If for example you were a C/R entering 149-GC, you would say, "This is 149th Street - Grand Concourse. Transfer is available to the (4) and (5) trains." If you wanted to pepper it with "Lexington Av IRT (4) and (5) trains", you could say that. Or if you wanted to say, "This is a Brooklyn Bridge-bound (6) Lexington Avenue Local train", you could say that too. As long as you use the words which are required in the Blue Book script, then adding a little here and there would not be frowned upon as long as your announcements do not affect the on-time performance of the train.

 

Now if you wanted to say, "Mott Avenue, change to the Lexington IRT", or if you wanted to be a stand-up comedian on the mic, or if you wanted to interject your bubbly personality in your announcements, then that would be a sure fire way to have a one-on-one meeting at Labor Relations. You don't want that, they're not a friendly bunch down there.

 

Thz sir:)[Much friendlier and responsive], I spoke to TrainMaster(5) as well on that case. He told me go by the blue book to like the NTT, btw how does a blue book look like or is this a figure of speech?

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Thz sir:)[Much friendlier and responsive], I spoke to TrainMaster(5) as well on that case. He told me go by the blue book to like the NTT, btw how does a blue book look like or is this a figure of speech?

 

The blue book is a tiny, blue colored pamphlet-type book, which is part of the TA Rules & Regulations, that fully explains what announcements the TA wants you to make. Every C/R gets one and is expected to carry it with them at all times when on duty.

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hey, if a worker was to announce to public that the next stop is a former station name, [instead of 149th GC thry say Mott ave] or say a line: This Manhattan bound (5) is running via the IRT WPR Exp, IRT Lenox and Broadway-7th Ave to TSQ-42nd.

 

Or for (R) This is 36th St connect with the (D)(M) via BMT West End and (N) Sea Beach Exp to stillwell

 

Would it be a misconduct of the employees to use this?

 

Yes i know it will confuse most passengers, but just wondering, Seeing a lot of workers dont do that, except maybe lines..

 

Of course I wouldnt confuse people. JUST asking!

 

thx, i know its sounds like a weird question but im very curious tho :P

 

Of course it is misconduct. Your using unofficial name for stops.. We are instructed on the proper announcement cycle..The Blue Book is real & blue! Whether we actually follow the script verbatum to the letter, that's a chance some take. Personally, in OPTO service, I dont usually follow blue book.. I announce what train & direction of travel/destination, current stop, connections, any GO related announcement & personal recomendations for travel, sometimes the next stop, and a 'Stand Clear!' for a closer..

But using the wrong names won't be tolerated..

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Of course it is misconduct. Your using unofficial name for stops.. We are instructed on the proper announcement cycle..The Blue Book is real & blue! Whether we actually follow the script verbatum to the letter, that's a chance some take. Personally, in OPTO service, I dont usually follow blue book.. I announce what train & direction of travel/destination, current stop, connections, any GO related announcement & personal recomendations for travel, sometimes the next stop, and a 'Stand Clear!' for a closer..

But using the wrong names won't be tolerated..

 

 

Doesn't MTA themselves use 'unofficial' names off and on (unless the blue book allows for these exceptions or hasn't been updated)?

 

Continental (station signage), 238th (NTT announcements, some GO notices, 5 train timetable), Lincoln (station signage), etc

 

Although Mott Avenue is too outdated to be used anyway, at least the above examples wouldn't cause confusion since they are still used in some shape or form by the MTA and they are usually used with the official map names

 

 

Sometimes C/R's cut off the E 143 St announcement and St Marys St is never heard (The Next Stop is E 143rd St .. Stand Clear of the Closing doors please)

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On a related note, I wonder about the rules in cases where a part of a station's name or its secondary name is rarely used, but still part of the official name.

 

I have heard C/R's refer to Beach 67th St, Beach 60th St, Beach 44th St, 88th St and 80th St on the (A) as Gaston Avenue, Straiton Avenue, Frank Avenue, Boyd Avenue and Hudson Street respectively. While these are part of the stations' official names, and most conductors do say the full name, e.g. "This is Beach 60th St-Straiton Avenue", I would like to know if the (MTA) made any particular directives to avoid using names or partial names that have fallen into disuse.

 

I must admit that I don't find anything massively wrong with using a disused but still official name, and the usual "Beach 67th next, stand clear..." does get monotonous. I also like how some C/Rs on the (R) will announce at Canal St, "transfer here to the (N)(Q)(W), (J)(M)(Z) and IRT (6) trains". I think it's great that even 69 years after the unification and city takeover of the subway, that its original history as three separate entities have lived on in the collective consciousness, and I don't think the TA should be trying to suppress transit employees from trying to keep that intact.

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as a rider, all I can say is as long as you speak clearly in english where I am and where I am heading next on the train, Im fine. I cant stand when they mumble and talk really fast. I think the best way is to just use the letters and numbers, sometimes the line names work when a train is rerouted, (E via 6th Ave, or F via 8th Ave), Other than that it seems long winded to use the line names.

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as a rider, all I can say is as long as you speak clearly in english where I am and where I am heading next on the train, Im fine. I cant stand when they mumble and talk really fast. I think the best way is to just use the letters and numbers, sometimes the line names work when a train is rerouted, (E via 6th Ave, or F via 8th Ave), Other than that it seems long winded to use the line names.

 

i would prefer to see automated announcement plugin for OTTs. Seems better :)

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Remember, these station names were changed for a reason. Mott Avenue and Mott Haven in the Bronx were considered less desirable names for whatever reason (possibly since they were dated or referred to places that no longer existed) and hence were changed to 138 St & 149 St, Grand Conc. And honestly, an an (MTA) employee, is there really any point to force your riders to hear your history lesson of disused names? Or is it more important to help them get to their destinations with the least amount of confusion and using the names that are consistent with maps and all other official (MTA) documents? What you refer to them between yourself and other railfans who find the history interesting is another story.

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Remember, these station names were changed for a reason. Mott Avenue and Mott Haven in the Bronx were considered less desirable names for whatever reason (possibly since they were dated or referred to places that no longer existed) and hence were changed to 138 St & 149 St, Grand Conc. And honestly, an an (MTA) employee, is there really any point to force your riders to hear your history lesson of disused names? Or is it more important to help them get to their destinations with the least amount of confusion and using the names that are consistent with maps and all other official (MTA) documents? What you refer to them between yourself and other railfans who find the history interesting is another story.

 

Actually using old names isn't always about railfans, remember get Rawson, Lowery, and Bliss were restored, and that had nothing to do with railfans.

 

In those cases using old names can cut down on confusion (30th Av-Grand Av for places in Queens that still use old names) though that doesn't apply to Mott Avenue.

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