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Forest Glen

The Future of Railfanning

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When the R160's first arrived I was excited. All of the clunkers on the (E) were replaced with sleek new cars. However, the system is starting to look more and more monotonous. Before the NTT's arrived the trunk lines had distinctive rolling stock-the Culver line had R46's, the Brighton line had R68's, and the Canarsie line had a mix of R40's and R42's. Now the system is losing its identity. Even at nycsubway.org it's one R160 pic after another. Does anyone else feel the same way (please keep this thread civil. This isn't Subchat)?

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It is true...the B Div is slowly staring to become more one type than a multitude. The IRT is already basically the same way. However, it's up to the railfanner if they want to keep on railfanning even though the RFW cars will be gone. I know I'm not going to let the retirement of the old cars stop me. The system may be losing its identity, but at the same time, it's getting another one: one that is soon to be mostly NTT. Please note that I didn't take a side on whether that identity is welcomed or disastrous. So, I think its up to the railfanner to determine if they still want to railfan a system that is having its identity replaced. And, I choose to continue.

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This is so true. With the SMEEs going, the trains have lost their variety, and railfanning is starting to be less and less enjoyable. The younger generation will never be able to get a sense of what its like to look out the front of a window and have everything zooming past you, especially on the Slants which were children-friendly with the low RFW. Pretty soon it will be gone will be gone, even the one on the (7)/<7> which will have the R188s! MTA, why have you taken our forsaken RFW away from us??? :cry:

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Yep I agree fanning the NYC subway isn't as enjoyble anymore as it was in the 90s. It started getting boring in 2004 (In the IRT) and now its getting boring in the B div. At least theres the three commuter rail systems in the area, thankfully. Transition periods are fun like the Redbird to R142/A and R40 Slant/mod to R68/A (On the (:P) and R32/R42 to R160 on the (E)/(F) lines. However, once its finshed, its boring as a mofo.

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Yep I agree fanning the NYC subway isn't as enjoyble anymore as it was in the 90s. It started getting boring in 2004 (In the IRT) and now its getting boring in the B div. At least theres the three commuter rail systems in the area, thankfully. Transition periods are fun like the Redbird to R142/A and R40 Slant/mod to R68/A (On the (:P) and R32/R42 to R160 on the (E)/(F) lines. However, once its finshed, its boring as a mofo.

 

I don't even think the MNRR or the LIRR offer RFWs.

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What makes a picture interesting is not the equipment or the route but the shot itself. Is it something new? Is it something different? Is it a unique angle? Or is it just the same old 3/4 profile of a train pulling into a station.

 

The hobby will always have its interesting points...those that choose to expand their horizons to find them will enjoy what they find. Those that only chase car move news and talk about what cars they "like" better will soon find themselves out of date.

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I don't even think the MNRR or the LIRR offer RFWs.

 

They both offer RFW, The M3s on both systems have a RFW and on all the MUs on the New Haven line have RFW, but sadly some of them will be replaced by M8s. I've ridden New Haven line MUs at the RFW at least two diffent times and once on an M3 on the LIRR from Jamaica to Hempstead. The M7s are 142/143/160ish they don't a RFW but they do have a RFV though, that is if the engineer doesn't pull down the black curtain.

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They both offer RFW, The M3s on both systems have a RFW and on all the MUs on the New Haven line have RFW, but sadly some of them will be replaced by M8s. I've ridden New Haven line MUs at the RFW at least two diffent times and once on an M3 on the LIRR from Jamaica to Hempstead. The M7s are 142/143/160ish they don't a RFW but they do have a RFV though, that is if the engineer doesn't pull down the black curtain.

 

Thats exactly the case with the R62s. They are railfan viewable but sometimes the T/Os are lame and will block the view (no offense to the T/Os here who do that, but come on! lol).

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I think railfanning will require a lot more skill and effort. Instead of people cherishing a picture solely because it is a certain car, people will instead have to look at other aspects of the picture. These aspects include lighting, location, and angle. If these are unique, then the picture will be too. However, getting these factors precise isn't easy.

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with the arrivals of the NTTs, it seems the system's railcar equipment is getting more uniform. But do not fear. i seriously doubt that the B div will ever be all 160s. or look exactly like 160s. (which truthfully looks like the 143s). the 160 order is not going to completly replase all cars in the B div. in the next 15-20 years or so when the 143/160s reach their mid life cycle there will be most likely a new fleet arriving with a new look for service into the latter part of the century. Ill agree until then, Railfanning might be a little boring. but as the order of 160s continue to arrive, we'll start to appreciate the older fleets more and be more excited when we wait at a station and they arrive to our delight.

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This reminds me of various text and narration highlighting the transition from steam to diesel and its effects on railfans and enthusiasts.

 

These cars are too new to fully appreciate, some see them as intruding on an interesting mix of rolling stock. In time we will see the quirks, and people will foam over them too. Not all future cars will resemble the R160.

 

- A

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What makes a picture interesting is not the equipment or the route but the shot itself. Is it something new? Is it something different? Is it a unique angle? Or is it just the same old 3/4 profile of a train pulling into a station.

 

The hobby will always have its interesting points...those that choose to expand their horizons to find them will enjoy what they find. Those that only chase car move news and talk about what cars they "like" better will soon find themselves out of date.

 

*Clicks imaginary Thanks button*!

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When i photo the subway, there are other things besides the trains that i see which are interesting. I'm not in the city as often as i used to be, so the changes are abrupt to me. Seeing a NTT at a station i heavily associate with say R32, R40....

 

- A

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When the R160's first arrived I was excited. All of the clunkers on the (E) were replaced with sleek new cars. However, the system is starting to look more and more monotonous. Before the NTT's arrived the trunk lines had distinctive rolling stock-the Culver line had R46's, the Brighton line had R68's, and the Canarsie line had a mix of R40's and R42's. Now the system is losing its identity. Even at nycsubway.org it's one R160 pic after another. Does anyone else feel the same way (please keep this thread civil. This isn't Subchat)?

 

It's funny, I recall a poster by the same name on another message board who used to complain frequently about the old "sterile" R-32s and how E riders deserve the newest and best cars etc. I'm glad he's enjoying the R-160s now.

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I don't hate the R160. The R160's are a vast improvement over the geriatric R32's. However, I don't want the B Division to be 100% R160. That's what I fear. A smaller system like the WMATA can get away with a uniform fleet but railfans love the diversity of the NYC subway's rolling stock. It's gotten to the point where I've run out of railfanning ideas since every photo at nycsubway.org looks alike. There's little difference between a R160 (J) train and a R160 (N) train.

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When the R160's first arrived I was excited. All of the clunkers on the (E) were replaced with sleek new cars. However, the system is starting to look more and more monotonous. Before the NTT's arrived the trunk lines had distinctive rolling stock-the Culver line had R46's, the Brighton line had R68's, and the Canarsie line had a mix of R40's and R42's. Now the system is losing its identity. Even at nycsubway.org it's one R160 pic after another. Does anyone else feel the same way (please keep this thread civil. This isn't Subchat)?

 

You can't have it both ways. You are getting what you wanted: the new cars on your line. The old cars were not going to last forever. I mean aren't other systems like the DC Metro monotonous? Ok so it's small, but why does its size make it unique over NYC? NYC still has the R44/46/68/A's.

And enough with subchat already. Don't worry about Terrapin and Newkirk Dave. Just move on already.

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You can't have it both ways. You are getting what you wanted: the new cars on your line. The old cars were not going to last forever. I mean aren't other systems like the DC Metro monotonous? Ok so it's small, but why does its size make it unique over NYC? NYC still has the R44/46/68/A's.

And enough with subchat already. Don't worry about Terrapin and Newkirk Dave. Just move on already.

 

*clap clap* well said...

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I had always thought New York City was the one system where it was too big for only two or three car types to ever run. Well, the R142s, R142As, R143s, R160As and R160Bs have narrowed that and these R179s and R188s may narrow that further.

 

I can continue to enjoy the subway as a railfan and I feel blessed that I remember a time we had everything from R1-R9s through R44s and the R46s were the newest cars. After the R1-R9s and the R11/R34s were retired and the R16s came back, we still had everything from R10s through R46s.

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If you look back, the system did at one time run only two or three similar looking car types in the pre-war days. The IND was completely R-9s. The IRT was Hi and Lo Vs which didn't look that different.

 

One more thought is that the system (particularly the IRT) had all of its SMEE cars painted in the same "(NYCT) MTA paint scheme" silver with a blue stripe. Everything from the R-15s through what eventually became Redbirds, looked the same. It seems like we're once again moving towards a uniformed fleet, and although it will be a little more boring, there will still be railfans and railfanning, I have no doubt.

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Give it three years and (E) riders will regret wanting to see NTT's on their line.

 

One thing's for sure, they can't be blame the R32's for screeching breaks and bad a/c's anymore.

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If you look back, the system did at one time run only two or three similar looking car types in the pre-war days. The IND was completely R-9s. The IRT was Hi and Lo Vs which didn't look that different.

 

One more thought is that the system (particularly the IRT) had all of its SMEE cars painted in the same "(NYCT) MTA paint scheme" silver with a blue stripe. Everything from the R-15s through what eventually became Redbirds, looked the same. It seems like we're once again moving towards a uniformed fleet, and although it will be a little more boring, there will still be railfans and railfanning, I have no doubt.

 

Ah yes! I remember the IRT getting the "Corporate look". i beleive that began with the arrivals of the M1s and R44s. Then from the corporate look the IRT went all white. Then Green. The to the Redbirds we all remember.

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If you look back, the system did at one time run only two or three similar looking car types in the pre-war days. The IND was completely R-9s. The IRT was Hi and Lo Vs which didn't look that different.

 

One more thought is that the system (particularly the IRT) had all of its SMEE cars painted in the same "(NYCT) MTA paint scheme" silver with a blue stripe. Everything from the R-15s through what eventually became Redbirds, looked the same. It seems like we're once again moving towards a uniformed fleet, and although it will be a little more boring, there will still be railfans and railfanning, I have no doubt.

 

However back then the trains were faster (Pre willyb crash era), and were more fun to ride because of poor suspension, and last but not least the RFW. IMO that made up for all the trains looking the same back then. The NTT don't have any of those (At least they make cool sounds lol) so its a bit boring. The thing thats interesting to me is the operation and maintence of the cars, same goes for the SMEE equipment as well.

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I don't hate the R160. The R160's are a vast improvement over the geriatric R32's. However, I don't want the B Division to be 100% R160. That's what I fear. A smaller system like the WMATA can get away with a uniform fleet but railfans love the diversity of the NYC subway's rolling stock. It's gotten to the point where I've run out of railfanning ideas since every photo at nycsubway.org looks alike. There's little difference between a R160 (J) train and a R160 (N) train.

 

PATH has 5 different car types on a 15 line mile system. :cool:

 

- A

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