MTA asks judge to kill contract for transit workers

[CPBO]

The MTA has urged a judge to toss out the transit workers contract, claiming it could cause higher fares, service cuts or maintenance reductions.

 

In legal papers filed in Manhattan Supreme Court, transit officials also say the arbitration panel that crafted the contract last month made critical blunders when evaluating the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's finances.

 

In one instance, the panel said the MTA has a $75 million rainy-day fund, which the authority says has been drained.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/09/10/2009-09-10_kill_contract_for_transit_workers_mta_asks_judge.html#ixzz0QifTGtQr

[INDman]

Ha, binding arbitration my ass. I hope the judge tells the MTA to suck it up and deal with it. If they don't have the money to pay the workers that make the system run, then they should fire the 100s of managers and supervisors who have no real purpose.

[SubwayGuy]

Agreed. Plus I wonder where that rainy day fund "drained" to...

[lilbluefoxie]

This is the same stuff that killed the american car companies, they dont plan ahead for the future and make promises that are impossible to keep, then they get at the mercy of these unions who dont care if the companies have no money

[INDman]

This is the same stuff that killed the american car companies, they dont plan ahead for the future and make promises that are impossible to keep, then they get at the mercy of these unions who dont care if the companies have no money

 

This is a bit different then what happened to the American Auto Industry. They are suffering because no one is buing their cars. In transit, there is too much over head, you habe managers and supervisors who don't do anything and they get paid a kings ransome for it too. On the other side of the coin, the hourly workers who mantain and run the system get shafted.

[lilbluefoxie]

This is a bit different then what happened to the American Auto Industry. They are suffering because no one is buing their cars. In transit, there is too much over head, you habe managers and supervisors who don't do anything and they get paid a kings ransome for it too. On the other side of the coin, the hourly workers who mantain and run the system get shafted.

 

they were unable to compete with the imports who dont have the higher legacy costs, granted the (NYCT) wont go bankrupt, they will get more cash from etiher the state or the feds at our expense. I dont think the politicians want to anger the people in areas where their transportation is cut.

 

As for not cutting administrators and managers and stuff, when do business ever start with them to get rid of first. Its a problem across the board, when politicians want more money, they scare people by saying well if we don't get this budget they will cut fire and police and sanitation, you never here, we will make this work by laying off bureaucrats. This kinda stuff isnt unique to (NYCT)

[SubwayGuy]

This is the same stuff that killed the american car companies, they dont plan ahead for the future and make promises that are impossible to keep, then they get at the mercy of these unions who dont care if the companies have no money

 

The unions had absolutely nothing to do with the automakers difficulty. The unions didn't authorize huge executive bonuses. The unions didn't press to build more heavy gas guzzling vehicles during periods of rising fuel prices. The unions didn't increase production to the point that the vehicles being made couldn't be sold. While the fat cats in this country pad their luxury suites with millions all people ever want to do is blame the blue collar guy who is actually providing service or making the product and make him take the shaft. Meanwhile, then the blue collar guy asks for a raise because he is getting priced out of a decent lifestyle and all of media influenced public opinion turns on him. But yet some d-head executive, in conjunction with d-head board of directors which are all cross-serving, gives himself a nice 10 million dollar raise and no one gives a shit. Never mind that 10,000 workers could get a grand more per year just with what that ONE guy makes.

 

Corporate dickheads have ruined this country and every body is all too happy to ignore what happens with them and blast the unions every time anything goes down. Are unions perfect? Absolutely not. But there is a reason they were created. Know your American history and see why...there were some damn good reasons for their creation and continued existence.

 

A world without unions is the world of "at will" employment where you are salaried so you make the same no matter what you work, your hours are completely undefined, you can be forced to relocate, and you can be terminated for absolutely no reason whatsoever. And if you want to quit you have to give them two weeks notice and agree to an interview telling them why you left and signing a noncompete agreement.

 

No overtime pay.

No night differential.

No annual cost of living raise unless your employer specifically gives you one.

You can be sent anywhere at any time for any reason, with no right of refusal

 

Is that what you all want? People in this country that are employed work harder than at any other time in recent years. People are becoming corporate slaves and don't realize it. Unions are the ONE thing that can stop that cycle and give them some time back in their lives, but no, they hate those. Never mind the layers upon layers of bureaucracy, admin, and human resources (:mad:) wasting money in this country not providing any service to anyone...they'd be better served slaving away in a plant somewhere down south to build my phones so I don't have to get them from asia and the country can stop running up a trade deficit.

 

But no one listens to this. It's always someone else's problem...till the whole shitshow collapses like in '08 and then everyone sits around in a circle jerk doing nothing trying to figure out the best way to "approach" the problem.

 

We're all going to hell if things keep up the way they have been. And anti-union, pro business bullshit (ZOMG! STEVE JOBS IS SOOO CREATIVE! - that kind of crap) will be a big driver behind why that happens.

[lilbluefoxie]

Unions arent exempt from corruption at the top, the unions have their own share of bureaucracy and wasted money.

 

Not all corporations are corrupt neither, many companies, seeking to attract the highest quality workers pay them fairly and respect their workforce. I've heard Costco for example keeps administrative overhead low in order to give their employees more benefits and such, as well as pass savings onto the consumer.

[SubwayGuy]

Unions arent exempt from corruption at the top, the unions have their own share of bureaucracy and wasted money.

 

Not all corporations are corrupt neither, many companies, seeking to attract the highest quality workers pay them fairly and respect their workforce. I've heard Costco for example keeps administrative overhead low in order to give their employees more benefits and such, as well as pass savings onto the consumer.

 

True but the majority don't. However this "blame the blue collar guy" or "how can they ask for raises during a recession?" attitude everyone has just simply has to stop. Bank executives are still pulling in enormous salaries despite mismanaging their clients' assets into the ground and they have more money than they could ever need or know what to do with. The blue collar guys SHOULD get a raise because they are:

 

-the ones providing the service

-from an economic standpoint, consumers, which means if they make more, they spend more, and everybody benefits.

 

The people who add nothing of value (administrative assistances, HR, internal "team builders", and unnecessary supervision) are the ones that should get no raises, or have them cut...because it will force them to do something productive with their careers instead of mooching off the rest of the system while adding nothing of value and keeping blue collar wages down with their BS attitudes about their joke jobs.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Y2Julio]

Well, for GM/Chrysler Corp. there is a mix of problems. First of all, the Unions want more than they need.

 

Second of all, The Unions (not all the people in union) are not doing their job correctly and are building poor low-quality cars. That is why American car sales are down since customers are feeling uncomfortable drving modern day American cars.

 

um no, that's not the reason at all.

[Urbanfortitude]

 

But for the , the workers should get a little raise, but they should understand they cannot get what they always want because they are doing one of the low-pay jobs. We cannot afford to raise the pay too-much or the level between high-pay, mid-pay and low-pay is too close. We should also understand that pay is by the hour or by the run. We should also meet other TA's in the United States pay amount. We cannot do it to roughly that the Subway and Bus workers' wages gets close to LIRR and MNR's wage. So, understand the wage issue, not just to make everyone equal but also to prevent pay-competition and other worker's disappointment.

 

 

 

So you're tellin me you'd be perfectly ok w/ being underpaid doing a job 8-12 hours per day (possible more if not definitely) just because the big cheeses upstairs don't want pay competition? The issue with wages is that people are busting their asses (sorry I'm not censoring this word) JUST so they can make their rent. Not that they can't afford to get that luxury Mercedes.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[SubwayGuy]

Well, for GM/Chrysler Corp. there is a mix of problems. First of all, the Unions want more than they need.

 

Second of all, The Unions (not all the people in union) are not doing their job correctly and are building poor low-quality cars. That is why American car sales are down since customers are feeling uncomfortable drving modern day American cars.

 

That part of your post could not have been more incorrect if you had tried.

 

But for the , the workers should get a little raise, but they should understand they cannot get what they always want because they are doing one of the low-pay jobs. We cannot afford to raise the pay too-much or the level between high-pay, mid-pay and low-pay is too close. We should also understand that pay is by the hour or by the run. We should also meet other TA's in the United States pay amount. We cannot do it to roughly that the Subway and Bus workers' wages gets close to LIRR and MNR's wage. So, understand the wage issue, not just to make everyone equal but also to prevent pay-competition and other worker's disappointment.

 

The wages will become too close? That's what prevented the US for hundreds of years from turning into India. In India 10% of the people make 90% of the money, and the other 90% of people are POOR and DESOLATE. It makes for a crap economy because 90% of the people are not true consumers and helping the economy. That's starting to change a little but that's why you see all the poor people in the Calcutta streets in the Mother Teresa videos...because some rich guy thought he needed the money more than they did...

 

Wages getting equal isn't a problem (if you're referring to communism)...the problem with communism and socialism and all that garbage is that when it gets put in the government takes ALL the money and makes EVERYONE poor equally. But giving working people MORE has never hurt the economy.

 

And why shouldn't NYCT get paid closer to MNCR and LIRR?? They do basically the same jobs. It's no harder to run an M3 than an R46. Different, yes, but similar skills required. The problem with Local 100 is when operating personnel get their wages bumped up so too do cleaners who while they perform a valuable service, earn a very reasonable wage as it is. On the other hand, for what they do B/O's, T/O's, and C/R's are underpaid.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[SubwayGuy]

Replies in Blue.

 

Oy. See bold.

 

Well, if you keep knocking wages up. There would be less jobs in America! Please get it, our companies are all outsourcing because of the demand Amercians want. It is just incredible that we demand more, the more outsourcing. For the they cannot outsource but they could lay-off more people to benefit the rest. Do you think this is fair? NO! It is just selfish! Not only the but the people who got the benefits. This pattern is noticed but it is still getting bigger and bigger.

 

How are you going to outsource MTA jobs? A person in India or China can't possibly operate a train that is here in the US. That makes absolutely no sense.

 

And the selfishness is the greedy bastards at the top who make money the only thing that matters to them, not employees who are just trying to maintain a standard of living.

 

 

Please don't count in politics. If we are making wages like too equal, no body would want to be CEO, no body would want to work in front of computers all day and use their Math/English skills and no body would want to go to college. This world would just end up being a (no offense but I cannot censor it) total bullshit.

 

And that's why I said wages should be brought more in line NOT EQUAL. CEO's would still make more, but not as much more as they currently do. And how would the world be total bullshit? Do you think some shithead businessman who had a few good ideas back in the day deserves to make 400 million dollars more than someone who operates a train?

 

And people would continue going to school and doing jobs that interest them. While many people choose business jobs for money there are actually people that like running their own business who do it because they can. Look at Harry. He's a computer guy, and he runs this forum. He's not making big money off it...he's doing it because he wants to.

 

Well, Metro-North and LIRR is similar to Amtrak but operate locally and the system is much more complex. Also, MNR and LIRR employees have to provide smoother and better quality service so they must have higher pay. Also, it is a commmuter rail, my theory is like this:

 

-Metro-Rail (Subways and Light Rails) - Low pay.

-Commuter-Rail - (NJT, LIRR, MNR and GO Transit and alike) Medium pay.

-Long-Distance Rail - (Amtrak and VIA Rail and alike) - High pay.

 

That is one of the silliest things I've seen. The speed and distance of the operation makes the systems DIFFERENT but not necessarily HARDER. And MNCR and LIRR and NYCT employees are all expected to provide quality service and smooth operation.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[SubwayGuy]

See black

 

Howdy, See Red!

 

Dude, read over my comment, if you don't please understand that outsourcing is not possible.

 

Also, please understand that I am trying to get the wage amount so cut it out.

 

I read it 5 times and it still makes no sense. MTA is going to outsource jobs that by necessity MUST be in NYC? Outsourcing means the jobs are performed offshore by offshore workers. Someone who is not in the US physically can't possibly operate a train in the US because they are not in the US.

 

Well, if you want to you want to. But there is a lot of people out there doing jobs to support a family but they must need the knowledge to do a job. If they don't have good enough knowledge from school, then they get lower pay, if they get more knowledge from school, they get high pay. Also, personality counts too, so please understand it!

 

If you think school determines pay that is 100% incorrect. That has a small hand in starting pay, then after that you are on your own to prove your worth. Bill Gates dropped out of school and he certainly gets paid well. The knowledge to do a job comes from common sense and being a quick learner, it's not something you learn sitting in a classroom or reading books, although that can sometimes help. All employers know this.

 

You know what, forget about it, we shouldn't pay NYCT employees the same wage as MNCR and LIRR employees because that is how things work, if you want more, get a second job or do better. Also, you need to know how things work out.

 

I need to know? Are you off your meds? I know how things work. The workers legally were awarded, in binding arbitration, a wage that they earned the second the arbitrator decided they did. And how are transit employees supposed to get seconds jobs when their first jobs require them to be alert 100% of the time and can sometimes be unpredictable. It's not like they can moonlight as bartenders...My friend I think it's YOU who needs to learn how things work and what the phrase "legally binding arbitration" means.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[SubwayGuy]

Hey See Green!

 

The fact that the jobs cannot possibly outsourced is my point. The MTA has to pay them, which means the workers will not lose their jobs to outsourcing. Therefore it is safe to give them the raise they have rightfully and legally earned without fear of them getting replaced by foreign labor.

 

...

 

The question is not whether school would be redundant to someone like a Bill Gates but rather if it would have benefitted him and clearly the answer is that starting Microsoft benefitted Bill Gates more than school ever did. You're missing the point though. The point is, take money out of the equation, and people will still follow what interests them...because in literally EVERY field, there is a high paying job. Suppose someone likes cleaning. They can someday run a janitorial company, and get paid well. It's not what kind of job it is that determines pay but how vital the job is and what value it adds to the company and to customers.

 

...

 

I understand absolutely well. A 4% raise is actually VERY reasonable. College tuition goes up 6-7% a year at many places. NYC rent can rise even faster. A 4% raises, IS baby steps. Plus it's long overdue since TA workers have consistently gotten less than all other city unions the last few years.

[7LineFan]

Hey See Green!

 

AWWang. I understand that you're trying to voice your opinion. However:

 

You're still in high school. Why are you bothering trying to tell SubwayGuy how the world works? Do you even know how the world works? Heck, I don't even know.

 

SubwayGuy is an adult. He's going through all this now, not in the future. I'm pretty sure he knows a little more than we do.

 

Concentrate on your schooling. That's how we learn, innit?

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Urbanfortitude]

Thanks for the tip, but I am going on a year of school with concentration. And I know I am in High School and knows how complex the world works. I also know SubwayGuy is an Adult, but arguements happen and people express their opinions, and now it is worked out... Except the Billy G. and Steve J. thing...

 

Kids always think they know...I thought I did too when I was in high school. Then I got out on my own and discovered this concept called "Paying Rent". Changed my life and its gonna change yours too...unless you choose to live with mom and dad till you're 50.