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JohnQPine

How the LIRR can beat Hampton Jitney

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The LIRR offers a quicker, cheaper way to travel than Hampton Jitney to and from the East End. But, the service on the Montauk branch is inadequate. The 1st problem is the lack of trains on weekdays and weekends going east in the morning. The 1st train doesn't get out there until 10:46am.

Going back west on weekdays, if you miss the 2:51pm you're stuck there until10:38pm. And even for those commuting to the city from the south fork, service aint great, there's only 1 full time rush hour train at 5:39am. And for those who may want to take a trip into the city on a weekend, the train in the evening won't get them home until midnight! Then there's the problem on Montauk trains that bypass Nassau county altogether, which is not only stupid and pointless, but also throws away opportunities to get ppl to use the LIRR within Long Island.

So I have spent some time coming up with a plan to help the LIRR fill in the gaps. Most of these trains will be added on weekends, when more equipment is available. To have enough equipment, the LIRR needs to consider leasing some equipment, Metro-North, NJT, or Amtrak may have spare coaches and locos.

LIRR MONTAUK LINE REDESIGN

ADDITIONAL TRAINS FOR LATE SPRING/SUMMER/EARLY FALL (MAY 1 – OCT 1)

 

WEEKDAYS (MON-FRI)

7:55AM Eastbound train from Babylon extended to Montauk, all stops to Montauk, arriving in Montauk 10am

11:35AM eastbound train from Jamaica now stops at Hicksville at 11:55am*, then making existing stops.

*boarding only at Hicksville

7:01AM westbound train from Montauk to Jamaica now runs Mon-Fri, and makes added stops at Patchougue and Babylon**.

(uses north siding to pass e/b at Bellport)

5:09PM (DM) train from Penn station to Montauk will run Mon-Fri

6:30PM westbound train from Patchogue extended to Montauk, leaves Montauk at 5PM making all stops to Babylon (A:meets 4:25pm special at Hampton Bays-5:50pm - special uses south track B:meets 4:49pm PEAK east of Mastic Shirley at 6:10pm)

 

 

WEEKENDS AND HOLIDAYS

New 7:00am eastbound train from Jamaica, making stops at Mineola, Hicksville, Babylon, Bay Shore, Sayville, Patchogue, Speonk, Westhampton, Hampton Bays, Southampton, Bridgehampton, East Hampton, Amagansett, and arriving at Montauk 9:40am (takes north track at Bellport to meet 6:44am w/b at 8:16)

8:10am eastbound from Jamaica to Montauk will now stop at Hicksville at 8:33am

9:10am eastbound from Jamaica to Patchogue will stop at Hicksville at 9:33am

9:41am eastbound from Jamaica to Speonk will stop at Hicksville at 10:05am

10:10am from Jamaica to Montauk will stop at Hicksville at 10:33am

3:35pm westbound from Montauk to Jamaica will stop at Hicksville at 5:38pm

5:35pm westbound from Montauk to Jamaica will stop at Hicksville at 7:50pm

7:34pm westbound from Montauk to Jamaica will stop at Hicksville at 9:48pm and Mineola at 9:58pm

5:41pm eastbound train from Jamaica extended to Montauk arriving 8:33pm, making all stops to Montauk after Babylon**

(A-meet 5:35pm w/b at Mastic Shirley at 6:58pm)

(B-meet 6:27pm special at HB 7:30PM, special takes S track)

(C-meet 7:34pm westbound at Bridgehampton at 8:05pm)

 

**these new trains will run year round

 

POLICIES

Boarding at Hicksville and Mineola for eastbound only, departure only westbound

Those boarding westbound or departing eastbound at Hicksville and Mineola will be charged fare for previous zone (Babylon)

Luggage must be stored in overhead racks. Anyone taking up seats with luggage will be charged for that seat

For the safety and comfort of all passengers, any loud or drunk behavior will mean ejection from train

FREE Weekend park and rides will be open at Mineola and Hicksville to encourage intra-island rail use

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That is a nice idea, but the only engines LIRR can use to pull other railroad's fleets is the Amtrak P32AC-DM, which is certianly NOT avaliable for lease, as Amtrak only has 17 of them. The next problem is installing a new track to hold more service, since there is really only one track going out east to Montauk.

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That is a nice idea, but the only engines LIRR can use to pull other railroad's fleets is the Amtrak P32AC-DM, which is certianly NOT avaliable for lease, as Amtrak only has 17 of them. The next problem is installing a new track to hold more service, since there is really only one track going out east to Montauk.

I agree,very nice and feasible idea but leasing engines from Amtrak is impossible right now.If MTA LIRR wanted to improve it's current Montauk schedule,it would have done so already.Improving service to the end would require more high ridership numbers and that would come from pressure from local communities and politicians pressuring the MTA LIRR to address the service needs.

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The demand exists, but the LIRR is not aware of it. They send limited services, since those who the LIRR consider as demand mostly take the Jitney. If they want to get improved service, they must market the service as targeting Hampton Jitney directly. Which I'm not sure if it's legal, since it illegal for them to take taxpayer subsidies to fight a private company.

 

As for trackage, the current single track with sidings is good enough under the aforementioned plan, even though there may be a restriction in recovery time. If a train ends up late/early, other trains will have to hold. Double-tracking to Speonk will certainly help, as is running more trains with less cars that don't stop to drop off at the busy express stops.

 

Also, when you say that you want to extend Babylon trains to Montauk, you are aware that they will have to be change-at-Jamaica with few exceptions, right?

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I'm not too familiar with the East End schedules, but if I'm not mistaken, the track speed at some point is much slower. On the other hand, the Jitney has a problem on the western half of its run with severe highway traffic.

Instead of competing, why not jointly solve the problem by running an intermodal service? Say use regular LIRR fast trains from New York to maybe Babylon, and then make a transfer to a waiting Jitney for the remainder of the trip? There is ample train service to Babylon, and there doesn't have to be that many passengers going beyond to make a bus connection feasible. The Jitney and the railroad would still continue their own through service as now exists, for the benefit of those wanting a one-seat ride, but the joint train-bus service might prove faster overall especially during times of heavy highway traffic. The Jitney would benefit by not having all its buses tied up for hours in slow traffic on the LIE.

 

In addition, there could be a similar service to the North Fork using train to maybe Ronkonkama, and then bus to Greenport or Orient Point.

Edited by traildriver
add on

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That is a nice idea, but the only engines LIRR can use to pull other railroad's fleets is the Amtrak P32AC-DM, which is certianly NOT avaliable for lease, as Amtrak only has 17 of them. The next problem is installing a new track to hold more service, since there is really only one track going out east to Montauk.

 

New locos could be used with the C-3 jumpers....the DE/DM junk is breaking down like crazy lately, not that it ever ran right.

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I'm not too familiar with the East End schedules, but if I'm not mistaken, the track speed at some point is much slower. On the other hand, the Jitney has a problem on the western half of its run with severe highway traffic.

Instead of competing, why not jointly solve the problem by running an intermodal service? Say use regular LIRR fast trains from New York to maybe Babylon, and then make a transfer to a waiting Jitney for the remainder of the trip? There is ample train service to Babylon, and there doesn't have to be that many passengers going beyond to make a bus connection feasible. The Jitney and the railroad would still continue their own through service as now exists, for the benefit of those wanting a one-seat ride, but the joint train-bus service might prove faster overall especially during times of heavy highway traffic. The Jitney would benefit by not having all its buses tied up for hours in slow traffic on the LIE.

 

In addition, there could be a similar service to the North Fork using train to maybe Ronkonkama, and then bus to Greenport or Orient Point.

 

Problem is HJ will never go for it. They want to remain a luxury service for the well to do, and there isn't much of an alternative for the rest of us besides the LIRR. The intermodal option is a good one though. The MTA could use express buses from those major terminals like Babylon and Ronkonkoma to the east end. They did do something like this a long time ago called "Road N Rail", maybe they can do that again if they cant run more trains.

If Suffolk Transit actually had an ounce of sense they could've started something like this too. I'd actually like to see South Fork bus service from Ronkonkoma, as the LIRR seems unable or unwilling to allow Nassau riders to use Montauk trains without backtracking to Jamaica, even though alot of Montauk trains pass right through Hicksville.

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I agree,very nice and feasible idea but leasing engines from Amtrak is impossible right now.If MTA LIRR wanted to improve it's current Montauk schedule,it would have done so already.Improving service to the end would require more high ridership numbers and that would come from pressure from local communities and politicians pressuring the MTA LIRR to address the service needs.

 

The MNRR have some P32AC-DM's. But they probably wouldn't use them for the LIRR because they are used most of the time.

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they need at least 1 every 2 hours for greenport and montauk and 1 every 1.5 hours for speonk

 

I wouldn't go that far. However, once every 3 hours to Greenport is reasonable. Quite a few people like in Riverhead.

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The LIRR offers a quicker, cheaper way to travel than Hampton Jitney to and from the East End. But, the service on the Montauk branch is inadequate. The 1st problem is the lack of trains on weekdays and weekends going east in the morning. The 1st train doesn't get out there until 10:46am.

Going back west on weekdays, if you miss the 2:51pm you're stuck there until10:38pm. And even for those commuting to the city from the south fork, service aint great, there's only 1 full time rush hour train at 5:39am. And for those who may want to take a trip into the city on a weekend, the train in the evening won't get them home until midnight! Then there's the problem on Montauk trains that bypass Nassau county altogether, which is not only stupid and pointless, but also throws away opportunities to get ppl to use the LIRR within Long Island.

So I have spent some time coming up with a plan to help the LIRR fill in the gaps. Most of these trains will be added on weekends, when more equipment is available. To have enough equipment, the LIRR needs to consider leasing some equipment, Metro-North, NJT, or Amtrak may have spare coaches and locos.

LIRR MONTAUK LINE REDESIGN

ADDITIONAL TRAINS FOR LATE SPRING/SUMMER/EARLY FALL (MAY 1 – OCT 1)

 

WEEKDAYS (MON-FRI)

7:55AM Eastbound train from Babylon extended to Montauk, all stops to Montauk, arriving in Montauk 10am

11:35AM eastbound train from Jamaica now stops at Hicksville at 11:55am*, then making existing stops.

*boarding only at Hicksville

7:01AM westbound train from Montauk to Jamaica now runs Mon-Fri, and makes added stops at Patchougue and Babylon**.

(uses north siding to pass e/b at Bellport)

5:09PM (DM) train from Penn station to Montauk will run Mon-Fri

6:30PM westbound train from Patchogue extended to Montauk, leaves Montauk at 5PM making all stops to Babylon (A:meets 4:25pm special at Hampton Bays-5:50pm - special uses south track B:meets 4:49pm PEAK east of Mastic Shirley at 6:10pm)

 

 

WEEKENDS AND HOLIDAYS

New 7:00am eastbound train from Jamaica, making stops at Mineola, Hicksville, Babylon, Bay Shore, Sayville, Patchogue, Speonk, Westhampton, Hampton Bays, Southampton, Bridgehampton, East Hampton, Amagansett, and arriving at Montauk 9:40am (takes north track at Bellport to meet 6:44am w/b at 8:16)

8:10am eastbound from Jamaica to Montauk will now stop at Hicksville at 8:33am

9:10am eastbound from Jamaica to Patchogue will stop at Hicksville at 9:33am

9:41am eastbound from Jamaica to Speonk will stop at Hicksville at 10:05am

10:10am from Jamaica to Montauk will stop at Hicksville at 10:33am

3:35pm westbound from Montauk to Jamaica will stop at Hicksville at 5:38pm

5:35pm westbound from Montauk to Jamaica will stop at Hicksville at 7:50pm

7:34pm westbound from Montauk to Jamaica will stop at Hicksville at 9:48pm and Mineola at 9:58pm

5:41pm eastbound train from Jamaica extended to Montauk arriving 8:33pm, making all stops to Montauk after Babylon**

(A-meet 5:35pm w/b at Mastic Shirley at 6:58pm)

(B-meet 6:27pm special at HB 7:30PM, special takes S track)

(C-meet 7:34pm westbound at Bridgehampton at 8:05pm)

 

**these new trains will run year round

 

POLICIES

Boarding at Hicksville and Mineola for eastbound only, departure only westbound

Those boarding westbound or departing eastbound at Hicksville and Mineola will be charged fare for previous zone (Babylon)

Luggage must be stored in overhead racks. Anyone taking up seats with luggage will be charged for that seat

For the safety and comfort of all passengers, any loud or drunk behavior will mean ejection from train

FREE Weekend park and rides will be open at Mineola and Hicksville to encourage intra-island rail use

 

I think this plan is excellent. It really doesnt make any sense to skip Hicksville and Mineola. We should forget about P32AC-DM's from either Amtrak or Metro-North and take a look at any available P-40's. Operate them from Jamaica after a transfer from EMU's from Penn station. NJT and ConnDOT have them. If any are left is storage, I know a few are going south for the Auto Train.

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I think this plan is excellent. It really doesnt make any sense to skip Hicksville and Mineola. We should forget about P32AC-DM's from either Amtrak or Metro-North and take a look at any available P-40's. Operate them from Jamaica after a transfer from EMU's from Penn station. NJT and ConnDOT have them. If any are left is storage, I know a few are going south for the Auto Train.

 

Going to run P32s or P40s on the LIRR? Will you be using any coaches, or do you suggest tying the passengers to the roof?

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They can get coaches somewhere . The roof wont fit that many passengers anyway. :P maybe NJT aren't some of the comet III's being retired as there multi-levels are coming in?

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The MNRR have some P32AC-DM's. But they probably wouldn't use them for the LIRR because they are used most of the time.

 

Even if the LIRR wanted to they couldn't use MNCR/CDOT P32's because of the third rail shoe position and voltage. This is why Amtrak, MNCR, and LIRR should have kept their FL9s in reserve instead of scrapping them. Yes they were old but they could have supplememnted current rosters.

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