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EE Broadway Local

Before Airtrain

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Do you remember the JFK Express, "The Train To The Plane" and did you ever try it?

 

Its' route bullet was: (JFK) and it primarily used R46s. In Brooklyn, (JFK) made only one stop, at Jay Street-Borough Hall. In addition to the token to enter, a premium fare was collected on board.

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The JFK Express in 1988 to 1990 used 4 Car R44 and when a R44 was knocked out service during the 1989 bilzzard, they used pre-GOH R38s on the (JFK). That was like for one day. I don't a pic exists neither but there were alot weird stuff happening on the (JFK).

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The (JFK) train I alway wanted to try ...too bad I was just born when came out...back then I think it was the safest way to get to howard beach for people who live there....instead of taking the (A) though brooklyn.....I wish there were pics of it....and I wonder how it would do today.........most likely today if the (MTA) had to do sevice cuts that would be on the chopping block then its back to airtran....whattype of seats did it use?....

 

 

(J)(F)(K).....(JFK)

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I think it was the safest way to get to howard beach for people who live there....instead of taking the (A) though brooklyn

 

lolwut?

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The train to the plane (JFK) was a good concept. Although riders did have to pay the extra fare on board, the (JFK) trains did serve regular passengers occasionally due to disruptions on other services on the (A)(C)(E) back then. Like what some brought up, (JFK) didn't actually take you directly to the airport. I just think this (JFK) train was not a successful one.

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The (JFK) train I alway wanted to try ...too bad I was just born when came out...back then I think it was the safest way to get to howard beach for people who live there....instead of taking the (A) though brooklyn.....I wish there were pics of it....and I wonder how it would do today.........most likely today if the (MTA) had to do sevice cuts that would be on the chopping block then its back to airtran....whattype of seats did it use?....

 

 

(J)(F)(K).....(JFK)

 

you may be able to find pics at nycsubway.org. as far as the seating, it was the same as the rest of the fleet. the only exterior difference was the blue stripe had "The Train to the Plain" printed on it and there were 4 (JFK) bullets under each car number plate

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I took it once on my trip to Chile in South America back during the Pan Am days. It was $5 and it took around 35-40 minutes from midtown. Not a bad ride. The seats were the same no difference and by that time the train to the plane slogan was not on the train anymore. Cool ride miss the speed of that train. The old days....

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lolwut?
I'm saying that being that back then brooklyn had a high crime rate and subway crime was up....that people who live in howard beach would take this train instead of the (A).....back then for those people who live there they didn't have to worry about getting rob or mug..stuff like that...so people in howard beach use that train.....sure it cost them but they didn't mind I guess lol......

 

 

 

(J)(F)(K).....(JFK)

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I'm saying that being that back then brooklyn had a high crime rate and subway crime was up....that people who live in howard beach would take this train instead of the (A).....back then for those people who live there they didn't have to worry about getting rob or mug..stuff like that...so people in howard beach use that train.....sure it cost them but they didn't mind I guess lol......

 

 

 

(J)(F)(K).....(JFK)

 

Well, they can sort of do that today by taking the LIRR to Jamaica then the Airtrain via Federal Circle to Howard Beach. But it would cost big time. The LIRR fare plus Double fare on Airtrain (to enter and to exit). Might still be less than a taxi.

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I'm saying that being that back then brooklyn had a high crime rate and subway crime was up....that people who live in howard beach would take this train instead of the (A).....back then for those people who live there they didn't have to worry about getting rob or mug..stuff like that...so people in howard beach use that train.....sure it cost them but they didn't mind I guess lol......

 

 

 

(J)(F)(K).....(JFK)

I heard something about that - some riders in the 1980's would pay the premium fare so they wouldn't have to make the (A) train (or (C) train stops between Euclid Avenue and Jay Street-Borough Hall in Brooklyn. Maybe then this happenened more around darkness, especially from Autumn to Spring. I've also heard there was a Transit Officer on every (JFK) train.

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I do remember the (JFK) Express,me and the family took it a few times to Howard Beach Station and then catch an old bus to JFK Airport itself,buses were GM New Looks,very noisy and service sucked as well.There were NYC Transit Police onboard most of the time,the NYC subway itself always had the old transit cops,even on all the lines.Miss those days B)

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I heard something about that - some riders in the 1980's would pay the premium fare so they wouldn't have to make the (A) train (or (C) train stops between Euclid Avenue and Jay Street-Borough Hall in Brooklyn. Maybe then this happenened more around darkness, especially from Autumn to Spring. I've also heard there was a Transit Officer on every (JFK) train.

 

There was an officer on every train. In addition, it would make a stop at Aqueduct Racetrack when the races were in session. The train was also popular with people living around Howard Beach as it would be a direct seat to 6th Ave, but it was only popular during the rush hour.

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Sadly the concept failed, primarily because passengers still needed to transfer to a shuttle bus to get to JFK Airport.

 

I don't know if it would be feasible to bring the (JFK) back. Seems like that even with, say, an $8 fare (plus $5) on the AirTrain, many JFK bound passengers would prefer to take a faster and less crowded train than the usual subway connections ((A) or (E)). At least this would still be faster and way cheaper than a taxi ($45 from Manhattan to JFK).

 

I wonder though, how the (JFK) would fare on the Fulton St express tracks. During rush hours, there are 17 (A) TPH on the Brooklyn and South Eastern Queens bound tracks; this approximates to one every 3.5 minutes. Even if you run only 3 (JFK) trains per hour, there would be 20 TPH on the Fulton St express line, or a separation of 3 minutes between trains. However, as (A) trains would make stops at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, Nostrand Avenue, Utica Avenue, Broadway Junction, Euclid Avenue and Grant Avenue, the space between an (A) train and the following (JFK) would surely decrease. Wouldn't that cause delays with the (JFK) held up outside a station to wait for an (A) to leave? Or would they keep switching the (A) to the local track to stop at the express stations while allowing the (JFK) a free run? Or run the (A) on the local track all along but skip stops at the local stops? Wouldn't both of the last two options cause delays due to crowding of the (A) and (C) on the same track, or due to constant switching? How did they manage back when the (JFK) ran?

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Sadly the concept failed, primarily because passengers still needed to transfer to a shuttle bus to get to JFK Airport.

 

I don't know if it would be feasible to bring the (JFK) back. Seems like that even with, say, an $8 fare (plus $5) on the AirTrain, many JFK bound passengers would prefer to take a faster and less crowded train than the usual subway connections ((A) or (E)). At least this would still be faster and way cheaper than a taxi ($45 from Manhattan to JFK).

 

I wonder though, how the (JFK) would fare on the Fulton St express tracks. During rush hours, there are 17 (A) TPH on the Brooklyn and South Eastern Queens bound tracks; this approximates to one every 3.5 minutes. Even if you run only 3 (JFK) trains per hour, there would be 20 TPH on the Fulton St express line, or a separation of 3 minutes between trains. However, as (A) trains would make stops at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, Nostrand Avenue, Utica Avenue, Broadway Junction, Euclid Avenue and Grant Avenue, the space between an (A) train and the following (JFK) would surely decrease. Wouldn't that cause delays with the (JFK) held up outside a station to wait for an (A) to leave? Or would they keep switching the (A) to the local track to stop at the express stations while allowing the (JFK) a free run? Or run the (A) on the local track all along but skip stops at the local stops? Wouldn't both of the last two options cause delays due to crowding of the (A) and (C) on the same track, or due to constant switching? How did they manage back when the (JFK) ran?

 

Back when the (JFK) aka "the Bird" ran, the (A) ran express only during rush hours, so the (JFK) generally had free rein of the Fulton St express tracks. When the (JFK) had to share tracks with other services, the (JFK)always received the right-of-way, even if the (JFK) was running early and the local train was running late. Under no circumstances was a dispatcher or tower operator allowed to plug up a bird.

 

From Rockaway Blvd to Howard Beach, the (JFK) would wrong rail on 2 track. There would also be a fare control area on the northbound platform at Howard Beach so that passengers on the local side of the platform could not access the (JFK) area without paying a supplemental fare.

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Back when the (JFK) aka "the Bird" ran, the (A) ran express only during rush hours, so the (JFK) generally had free rein of the Fulton St express tracks. When the (JFK) had to share tracks with other services, the (JFK)always received the right-of-way, even if the (JFK) was running early and the local train was running late. Under no circumstances was a dispatcher or tower operator allowed to plug up a bird.

 

From Rockaway Blvd to Howard Beach, the (JFK) would wrong rail on 2 track. There would also be a fare control area on the northbound platform at Howard Beach so that passengers on the local side of the platform could not access the (JFK) area without paying a supplemental fare.

 

[i clicked on the Thanks button but it disappeared and my name didn't show up as having thanked you. Anyway, Thank You!]

 

I see that running "the Bird" must have been a complicated job for the dispatcher, because if there was any anticipation of the (JFK) getting stuck behind an (A), the (A) would have to be diverted to the local track (or do a battery run) and fast.

 

Allowing the (JFK) to use the wrong rail must also have been logistically difficult, and I hate the idea of being held up on a northbound (A) waiting for the (JFK) coming in the opposite direction to get to Howard Beach and turn around. Still sometimes I wish it would run again as I would be able to take it to Howard Beach to shorten my commute to the Rockaways.

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I clicked on the Thanks button but it disappeared and my name didn't show up as having thanked you. Anyway, Thank You!]

 

I see that running "the Bird" must have been a complicated job for the dispatcher, because if there was any anticipation of the (JFK) getting stuck behind an (A), the (A) would have to be diverted to the local track (or do a battery run) and fast.

 

Not really, but the lion's share of worry belonged to West 4th Street and Canal Street Towers. If a bird got caught behind a rush hour (A), then the bird was stuck behind it for the long haul. They didn't make any last second diversions.

 

Allowing the (JFK) to use the wrong rail must also have been logistically difficult, and I hate the idea of being held up on a northbound (A) waiting for the (JFK) coming in the opposite direction to get to Howard Beach and turn around. Still sometimes I wish it would run again as I would be able to take it to Howard Beach to shorten my commute to the Rockaways.

 

 

It only was difficult during rush hours when the (A) and the 70(CC) would run more often and also during track work. Otherwise the up to 24 minute headway out of the Rock would provide a large enough window for the (JFK) to do its thing.

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I'm saying that being that back then brooklyn had a high crime rate and subway crime was up....that people who live in howard beach would take this train instead of the (A).....back then for those people who live there they didn't have to worry about getting rob or mug..stuff like that...so people in howard beach use that train.....sure it cost them but they didn't mind I guess lol......

 

 

 

(J)(F)(K).....(JFK)

 

Actually the (JFK) was not very safe at all. It got scrapped because of it high crime rate. This was what was told to me and my classmates in S/A school. People from those same neighborhoods in BK would rob alot of the tourist. I can't vouch for how true that is, but this is what was told to me. But I can see how that's possible being as the train only made one stop form brooklyn to howard beach. No where to go once the train was rolling, so you couldn't get off to notify a police officer . I believe they may have had and officer aboard most times but not all times .But like most others I was too young to remember that train service and how it ran.

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Actually the (JFK) was not very safe at all. It got scrapped because of it high crime rate. This was what was told to me and my classmates in I was S/A school. People from those same neighborhoods in BK would rob alot of the tourist. I can't vouch for how true that it, but this is what was told to me. But I can see how that's possible being as the train only made one stop form brooklyn to howard beach. No where to go once the train was rolling, so you couldn't get off to notify a police officer . But like most others I was too young to remember that train service and how it ran.

 

Nah, whomever told you that was full of doohickey. It was discontinued for lack of customers. Every train had an officer, a station agent to collect the premium fare, every train only had one open car (unless crowds mandated the opening of additional cars, which happened only during the rush hour and on weekends when the ponies were running at Aqueduct), and there was only one set of open doors per car. As you can tell, it was a very safe environment.

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Nah, whomever told you that was full of doohickey. It was discontinued for lack of customers. Every train had an officer, a station agent to collect the premium fare, every train only had one open car (unless crowds mandated the opening of additional cars, which happened only during the rush hour and on weekends when the ponies were running at Aqueduct), and there was only one set of open doors per car. As you can tell, it was a very safe environment.

 

Did the R-44/46s have a separate position on the master door control for the (JFK) which allowed the train to only open the one set in each car or did they cut out the doors that weren't being used?

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The train was very safe, I use to take it from 57th and 6th ave to Howard Beach and get the (A) into the Rockaways. It made the commute well worth the money as I was starting on 6th ave and would of had to switch at west 4th or so.

 

We use to buy the tickets in bulk and saved money, someone on the train always had an extra so you didn't have to pay the full fare. I don't remember the difference in price buy buying in bulk.

 

I do remember that the train didn't always wrong rail as we use to get off on the southbound platform and get the (A). They tried a bunch of stuff with it. If you wanted to you could have stayed on the train to get off on the northbound platform after a relay. They actually told you on the train to stay on and get off at the second Howard Beach stop.

 

They should bring it back in one form or the other.

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Did the R-44/46s have a separate position on the master door control for the (JFK) which allowed the train to only open the one set in each car or did they cut out the doors that weren't being used?

 

They individually cut out the doors that weren't being used.

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Not my video, but I found this on Youtube some time ago and it's well worth adding to this thread.

 

 

 

The insidious jingle really gets in your head badly...

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Nah, whomever told you that was full of doohickey. It was discontinued for lack of customers. Every train had an officer, a station agent to collect the premium fare, every train only had one open car (unless crowds mandated the opening of additional cars, which happened only during the rush hour and on weekends when the ponies were running at Aqueduct), and there was only one set of open doors per car. As you can tell, it was a very safe environment.

 

I heard in wiki that they usually allowed regular passengers in when a g/o was formed. Did they have to pay the Premium fare and it ran regular Rush Hr (A) exp stops? (If this is true)

 

______________________

as for me..I never rode it but was born when it was less then 6 months before it got discontinued.. To bad the (JFK) cant run and allow connetcion for free to the JFK Airtrain..

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(A)

I heard in wiki that they usually allowed regular passengers in when a g/o was formed. Did they have to pay the Premium fare and it ran regular Rush Hr (A) exp stops? (If this is true)

 

______________________

as for me..I never rode it but was born when it was less then 6 months before it got discontinued.. To bad the (JFK) cant run and allow connetcion for free to the JFK Airtrain..

During a GO passengers who had to switch to a (JFK) Express train from a (A) train did not have to pay the premium fare.

I do remember one or two times when the (JFK) Express had to do (A) train stops,so to answer your question mark no they did not have to pay the premium fare and yes it operated as the (A) service pattern during a major service disruption.

I am not a big fan of Wikipedia as people can alter and place misleading information to make an article interesting,as far as the JFK Express article in Wikipedia it is currently accurate now.

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