R46 F train with all blue seats and R160 failures at 7th Ave.

[R32 3348]

CurAke79, the 7 uses R62As. Also, what was the number of that car with blue seats on the 3? The 3 sometimes runs R62As as well.

He didn't say the used R62s, he was referring to the . And the stopped using R62As a while ago after all the IRT yard changes.

[Rapid Transit TO]

doesn't really care about seat colors, they care about bottom line costs. They design alot of stuff to be interchangeable, so they can order one part & use it across the fleet.. As for the color schemes created, most people NOT on this forum don't care if all the seats match, as long as the train gets them to thier stop on time with working a/c, they are happy..

 

As to the filthy car comments, sometimes not all cars get cleaned every night. An example is 4 car trains used for weekend service. They get hitched up early Monday morning sometime for AM Rush service on the & (V)lines, and stored somewhere on the main line. No cleaners work those hours, so you get 'less than clean cars' for the first runs..

[Eric B]

Thanks for pics. Even with all blue seats it is not an improvement. In fact, it makes the train look older. It's not the right shade of blue. The blue/periwinkle works on the NTTs, not on the pre-NTTs. If the MTA wanted to save money by going with one color, make it beige and just leave out the top color.

What I think that is, is because of the dingy yellowed lighting and duller walls, it kind of has the same brownish ambience as the beige/brown scheme of the 46's.

Now, in 68's, with the more reflective walls for a brighter "atmosphere", and new non-yellowed plastic light panels; it would look just as good as in the NTT's!

[BSmith]

doesn't really care about seat colors, they care about bottom line costs. They design alot of stuff to be interchangeable, so they can order one part & use it across the fleet.. As for the color schemes created, most people NOT on this forum don't care if all the seats match, as long as the train gets them to thier stop on time with working a/c, they are happy..

 

 

If the MTA doesn't care about seat colors why change them? Why have blue seats in the NTTs? Why not just continue with beige? Why do I read that blue is a soothing color about the M7s? And while of course people want to get where they are going in a train that has working HVAC, they do notice when a car looks pieced together and tacky, which is what these mismatched colors that have nothing to do with the scheme of the R46-R68 look like. It's just paint and it is a very weak argument. The seats on the R142-R160 can not be interchanged with those on the R44-R62 and I think the seats on the R68 differ a bit from those but are the same colors. A lot of beige paint could have been ordered as these are the seats that need repairing, not the seats on the newer R142-R160 trains. And, if the MTA is so concerned with saving money, why put those silly new roll signs in the R62s with the destination stations on them? Why spend any money on the aesthetics of train stations? Why clean off grafitti and spend money controlling scratchitti? The appearance of things matters beyond the function, society is very aesthetic-appearance driven.

[BSmith]

What I think that is, is because of the dingy yellowed lighting and duller walls, it kind of has the same brownish ambience as the beige/brown scheme of the 46's.

Now, in 68's, with the more reflective walls for a brighter "atmosphere", and new non-yellowed plastic light panels; it would look just as good as in the NTT's!

 

Eric, I've always thought that the R62/R68 looked odd with the R44s seat colors. I thought a cool blue or another cool color would fit much better, though the yellow/orange scheme brightens up the train. However, something about the appearance of those seats on the R62 doesn't work for me. It looks like a 1970s bus, when the MTA started painting the interiors and exteriors of the buses blue. I'll say this, though. It looks better to make them all blue than just a few pairs here and there. So, the R68 has more reflective walls (seems more in the R68 than the R68A to my eyes). OK. They could try it on some. It'll change the character of the R68.

[BSmith]

Everything old is new again. Here's a link to an interior pic of a blue bus, a Flex from the 1970s (was on the Vintage bus show in 2007). I think the color of the seats of this bus would look great on the R68. Also, seems pretty close to the PATH PA5 to me.

 

http://is.gd/3LwSl

[jimbob60]

I rode in an R-46 V Tuesday evening with a few blue seats. It does look weird given the other color scheme in the car. or what it is worth, I think the R44/46 interiors are nicer than those on the 62's and 68's. I can recall riding the 46's shortly before the 68's came into service and the middle interior lights were turned off in all cars as a way of testing the lighting on the 68's which do not have a middle row of interior lights. I love the brightness of the 46's and the wood like covering at the end of the car interiors.

[Eric B]

I remember the middle light being out on the 46's, and you think this was a test for the 68's? Never heard that idea before. I do remember this way before the 68's came out, though (test for the R55?), and occasionally, it would be the opposite, with only the center light on, and the side lights off (which was very ugly, IMO). So at that point, it wouldn't be a test for anything else. There are separate circuit breakers for the side or center lights, so they were probably off. Later on if it was a test, I don't know.

But when I saw the 62's and then 68's, and then, rebuilt 38's with this new lighting scheme; I realized that the fixture was actually a bit different from the old 32-46 indirect lighting. All of them have the diffusers against the wall pointing straight down (lighting the seats, basically), but the new ones had diffusers against the ceiling as well, distributing the light across the top more, and somewhat replacing the center light.

[jimbob60]

I assumed the center lights being out in the R46's was a test for the R68's. I don't know that for fact. I like the R46's because they are the first train I can recall delivery schedules for. I first saw in in the fall of 1975 as I was waiting at Parsons Blvd for a train to Forest Hills. The R46 pulled in on the Jamaica bound side and I ran up and down the stairs to catch it to 179 St and then waited for it to return Manhattan bound to get to Forest Hills. Due to delivery issues (which I believe included at least 1 strike at Pullman, delivery stretched out 3 yrs til the fall of 1978. Some 1200's (the even pairs which provided for extra A cars) were delivered in June 1976. I was quite surprised when I boarded an F train with 600#'s for the first 4 cars (at the time the newest deliveries) and even numbered 1200's for the last 4 cars. I remember in Sep 1976 when the EE was eliminated and the N first ran to Queens that R46's ran on the N - the train I took to high school. The 46's still look good although I am partial to the 44's because I ride them less often and I like their quirks although I would say the 46 is a better car. I was surprised when I recently boarded an A 44 at how well the a/c was working. Why though do the interior lights at the end of the cars look like they are held together with scotch tape. Were they an afterthought to the overhaul? Other than for reroute reasons, I don't believe the 44's have run in Queens since the 46's had their trucks replaced in the early/mid 80's. The 44's first ran on the F with the final 100 cars serving the D line. I lived outside New York for most of the 90's (after the R46's were overhauled) and would only ride the subway once or twice a year when I came back for short stays so I am not so familiar with many of the car assignments in the 90's.

[Cait Sith]

This is NYCTF. There are plenty of posters here that would be fooled by that picture...

 

Unfortunately, that is true....

 

The only screwup with the R160s that I had that was bad was when one FIND/Interior display would show one route while the other FIND & Interior Display would show another route, which from what I've encountered, has come from Jamaica's R160s.

[Eric B]

Why though do the interior lights at the end of the cars look like they are held together with scotch tape. Were they an afterthought to the overhaul?

I get the sense that they were trying to open that space on the lights up to ads. (This was after overhaul). So they removed the original covering, and used little metal brackets to bolt in the same sort of light cover the ads go over, but without the slots the cards go in (and ill fitting, with gaps). Perhaps it would have been adhesive cards?

Well, they never did that, and then we were left with these sloppy looking end lights. (Some seem to have been replaced with new covers made to fit). Of course, now, the problem was fixed on the new cars, as the lights and ad slots are not affected by the presence of the A/C unit, and thus go all the way to the wall now.

[BSmith]

I rode in an R-46 V Tuesday evening with a few blue seats. It does look weird given the other color scheme in the car. or what it is worth, I think the R44/46 interiors are nicer than those on the 62's and 68's. I can recall riding the 46's shortly before the 68's came into service and the middle interior lights were turned off in all cars as a way of testing the lighting on the 68's which do not have a middle row of interior lights. I love the brightness of the 46's and the wood like covering at the end of the car interiors.

 

Yes, I think the R44/R46 interiors are the absolute nicest in the fleet. Don't really get the silver in the R62/R68. The thing is, the subway and other fleets color schemes aren't all about aesthetics. That's part of it. There's a whole psychology of colors in public places studies. In the late 1960s-1970s, faux wood paneling and warm color "pops" were thought to make people feel comfortable. Now, blue and white are back (so many interiors of the 1960s fleet were some sort of blue originally). The thought is now that white leads to a feeling of spaciousness and blue is supposed to be soothing (though the R143 and R160 have blue tinged wall colors). The feeling is that passengers would be more at ease and less apt to confront each other. Metro North in the New Haven line, known for its red stripe livery, is now going with a red/burgundy interior in its M8 and that interior, though having some nice touches, is thought to be in too provocative a color. Certain design aspects are just in, speckled floors and wall surfaces, digital displays and the colors used for them, brushed metal, etc, all of this will date itself and IMO, these interior will not be that memorable a few decades from now and not age anywhere near as well as the 1970s interior schemes. I don't really find the new equipment to have very interesting interiors. I like the bilevels on the NJT due to that swirling blue wall effect and the lighting but there are functional issues, but the R142-R160, the PA5, the M7, really don't do much for me. They are all a bit sterile, have uninspired interiors, and the automated announcements make them feel more so. I like the M1-M3, R44/R46, and Path PA1,2, and PA4. Hopefully, the R179 and R188 will take some of the M8s design cues to some degree and bring something a bit more interesting to subway function, design, and overall interior environment. But, I think it'll be cars after these that hopefully may raise the bar to the standards of the R44.