Why were R38's retired before R32's?

[duelingdragons]

I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to different cars, but logic would dictate that the R32's would retire before the 38's strictly due to age, right?

 

The R32's are 2-3 years older than the 38's. Was it due to car condition? I recall a lot of rust on the R38's...

 

I'm just curious because I liked the R38's more than the 32's. (mainly because of the old school NYCTA badge on the front)

 

Thanks guys.

[R44 5278]

The R38 had the smallest fleet of only 20 trains altogether and were out of parts. The rusting definitely played a major part in their retirement.

[Pu3rToRoCk8947]

Let's also say that Budd Company,manufacturer of the R32's or Brightliners as they were called when they debuted in the 60's,knew how to make a darn good stainless steel subway car.Despite their 40+ age now and current retirement process,it comes to no surprise that R38's & R40 slants went bye bye first,the rusting and age was more apparent on these car classes.I will be sorry and sad to see the R32's go,R38's weren't that bad either

[LRG]

I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to different cars, but logic would dictate that the R32's would retire before the 38's strictly due to age, right?

 

The R32's are 2-3 years older than the 38's. Was it due to car condition? I recall a lot of rust on the R38's...

 

I'm just curious because I liked the R38's more than the 32's. (mainly because of the old school NYCTA badge on the front)

 

Thanks guys.

 

The R38s framework was a factor of their retirement because of its carbon steel framework, which rotted. They died at 41.

[R421969]

Exactly. Imagine how long the R11s would have lasted if they had a bigger order amount, such as the R32.

[Art Vandelay]

The R38 was retired when it was because the MTA decided to retire it then. The order of car replacement has little to do with the physical condition(which is why they were retired before most of the R42MK fleet which was in significantly worse shape) or having stores of "spare parts" .

 

The first fleets retired were the R32GE, R42CI and R32MK-II, respectively. These three fleets were all rather problematic, and were removed from service first due to reliability issues. Also at this time, some R40S cars were being retired.

 

After the problem fleets were replaced, the cars were retired based on a combination of overall age and time since their last SMS. As they were the second oldest fleet, and had the R32MKs had gone through SMS more recently than the R38, the R38 was retired next. While the R38 fleet was being retired, the intention was to retire the R32MK-I next. As it was decided that R40s and R42s were unsuitable to C line service, the R40Ss were replaced after the R38s, instead of the R32.

R40Ms were the next fleet to be fully retired, but R32MK-Is and R42MKs both were being simultaneously retired on a large scale while the R40Ms were being retired. R32s and R42s are both currently being actively retired.

 

Physical condition was never really a major consideration in the retirements order, as all of the cars were going to be replaced anyway. They could have kept the 100 cars in the worst physical condition until the last R160s arrived, and probably would have if they were substantially more reliable than the rest of the fleet. "Spare parts" are a complete non-issue. Subway car parts are not replaced on a large scale outside of SMS. No SMS projects have been undertaken on the 60 foot SMEE fleet since their retirement began. If a part was needed for any car R32-R42, and such a part was not in store, that part would be taken from a scrap car, or the car needing such a part would be scrapped.

[LRG]

From what I heard, there hasn't been a scrap train since the day the R40 Straights retired, and because of the R32s winding up at Coney Island, something tells me they won't retire any cars, or 32s at least, until the becomes full-length.

[FlushingExpress]

I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to different cars, but logic would dictate that the R32's would retire before the 38's strictly due to age, right?

 

The R32's are 2-3 years older than the 38's. Was it due to car condition? I recall a lot of rust on the R38's...

 

I'm just curious because I liked the R38's more than the 32's. (mainly because of the old school NYCTA badge on the front)

 

Thanks guys. B)

 

a sleek and shiny railcar will always outlive a dirty bucket.

 

The R38 was retired when it was because the MTA decided to retire it then. The order of car replacement has little to do with the physical condition(which is why they were retired before most of the R42MK fleet which was in significantly worse shape) or having stores of "spare parts" .

 

The first fleets retired were the R32GE, R42CI and R32MK-II, respectively. These three fleets were all rather problematic, and were removed from service first due to reliability issues. Also at this time, some R40S cars were being retired.

 

After the problem fleets were replaced, the cars were retired based on a combination of overall age and time since their last SMS. As they were the second oldest fleet, and had the R32MKs had gone through SMS more recently than the R38, the R38 was retired next. While the R38 fleet was being retired, the intention was to retire the R32MK-I next. As it was decided that R40s and R42s were unsuitable to C line service, the R40Ss were replaced after the R38s, instead of the R32.

R40Ms were the next fleet to be fully retired, but R32MK-Is and R42MKs both were being simultaneously retired on a large scale while the R40Ms were being retired. R32s and R42s are both currently being actively retired.

 

Physical condition was never really a major consideration in the retirements order, as all of the cars were going to be replaced anyway. They could have kept the 100 cars in the worst physical condition until the last R160s arrived, and probably would have if they were substantially more reliable than the rest of the fleet. "Spare parts" are a complete non-issue. Subway car parts are not replaced on a large scale outside of SMS. No SMS projects have been undertaken on the 60 foot SMEE fleet since their retirement began. If a part was needed for any car R32-R42, and such a part was not in store, that part would be taken from a scrap car, or the car needing such a part would be scrapped.

 

this is only partially correct. the R32s were NEVER meant to retire before the slants and the slants were ALWAYS meant to retire right after the R38s. in fact, the Phase II cars were not supposed to retire before the R38s or slants. before their retirement commenced, more than half of the slants were already gone. the Phase II R32s were only retired after major mechanical problems were discovered and (NYCT) determined it would be pointless to repair them since the R160s were going to replace them all anyway. the R160 base order was supposed to retire the R38s, R40 slants, 10 GE R32s, and Coney Island R42s. Option I replaces all MK R32s, and Option II knocks out R40Ms and R42s. retiring the R32s before the R40s would not be a good idea considering how much riders and train crew hated the slants for their excessive rumbling, tiny cabs, bumpy riders and all sorts of other issues. they were trouble from the start and only avid railfans loved them. if R40/42s could run on the , all Jamaica R42s would have been sent at 207th Street to retire the R38s. then the R160s would go to Jamaica to transfer the R46s to Pitkin, retiring the R40/40Ms. then the rest of R160s intended for Jamaica would retire the remaining R32s. the last of the R160s would go to Coney Island and Jamaica, sending more R46s and perhaps some R68/68As as well to 207th Street to retire the R42s.

 

From what I heard, there hasn't been a scrap train since the day the R40 Straights retired, and because of the R32s winding up at Coney Island, something tells me they won't retire any cars, or 32s at least, until the becomes full-length.

 

no, there has not, but it may start up soon. the next cars to retire will be the Jamaica R42s and the few R32s there will go elsewhere

 

The plans I referred to were correct as of December 2008.

 

The plans for R160 replacement have changed numerous times. If one plan that I can think of off the top of my head (this would probably be sometime in 2005) had been kept, we would still have the R38s and R40s around, while the R42s and R44s would be gone. A year later, the R38s were planned to be the first cars retired. Such plans changed many times.

 

Yes, at one point in time there were considerations to replace stainless steel cars with R68s. If I recall correctly, the R32, R42 and R44 were the fleets which they toyed with the idea of scrapping. The R10s, R16s, R27s and R30s would have all been overhauled in this case.

 

what i just said was the plan as of December 2008. the R32s were always planned to retire right after the slants. yes, car retirement dates do chance frequently. The R27/30s were rebuilt to look like the Redbirds before being retired in 1993 by the rebuilt R44/46s. not sure about the R10s, but one R16 was tested for rebuilding. the experiment failed, though, and since the R68/68As were already being delivered in large quantities, it was decided to have them replace the R16s.

 

I always thought the door controls were at the B end of every married pair car

 

yes, but the R32/38s also have them on the "A" end. that is why they were needed back on the . people got hurt running from the back of the train when it used R40/40M/42s because the conducto was moved from the 4-4 position to the 5-3 one, leaving a 120 foot space in the back.

[R44 5278]

Whoa, you went too far. The T/A never planned for the R68/As to retire the R42s. The R46s were slated to go to 8th Avenue from the very beginning.

[S78 via Hylan]

The R38 had the smallest fleet of only 20 trains altogether and were out of parts. The rusting definitely played a major part in their retirement.

 

I agree. It wouldn't have made sense to retire the R38s before the R32s unless the R32s were giving lots of problems.

[LRG]

Whoa, you went too far. The T/A never planned for the R68/As to retire the R42s. The R46s were slated to go to 8th Avenue from the very beginning.

 

What FlushingExpress meant was the R160s that would go to Coney Island would have pushed the R68s elsewhere. In this case, to Jamaica, and the R42s there would go to scrap.

[R44 5278]

What FlushingExpress meant was the R160s that would go to Coney Island would have pushed the R68s elsewhere. In this case, to Jamaica, and the R42s there would go to scrap.

 

He specifically mentioned 207th yard because he wanted the R68s to run on the A.

[R32 3348]

From what I heard, there hasn't been a scrap train since the day the R40 Straights retired, and because of the R32s winding up at Coney Island, something tells me they won't retire any cars, or 32s at least, until the becomes full-length.

What? A barge went out just a few days ago with both R40Ms and R42s. I went up to Van Cortlandt Park on Tuesday for a track meet, and I saw several R42s being stripped at 207th. I had another meet on Saturday, and when I went up there was a completely different set of cars being stripped.

[LRG]

What? A barge went out just a few days ago with both R40Ms and R42s. I went up to Van Cortlandt Park on Tuesday for a track meet, and I saw several R42s being stripped at 207th. I had another meet on Saturday, and when I went up there was a completely different set of cars being stripped.

 

Those were probably trains apart of the scrap consist from weeks ago then. If not from the day the R40s retired, then a week after, the most.

[Art Vandelay]

The plans I referred to were correct as of December 2008.

 

The plans for R160 replacement have changed numerous times. If one plan that I can think of off the top of my head (this would probably be sometime in 2005) had been kept, we would still have the R38s and R40s around, while the R42s and R44s would be gone. A year later, the R38s were planned to be the first cars retired. Such plans changed many times.

 

Yes, at one point in time there were considerations to replace stainless steel cars with R68s. If I recall correctly, the R32, R42 and R44 were the fleets which they toyed with the idea of scrapping. The R10s, R16s, R27s and R30s would have all been overhauled in this case.

[lilbluefoxie]

How come the R42s cant run on the ?

[PATCOman]

They really could run on the but because 1. the runs 8 cars, and 2. the R42 does not have conductors controls in the 4th or 5th car, new c/r boards would have to be installed or the train would have to end at the front of the platform. The MTA did not want to put up new c/r boards so the trains ended at the front of the platform. Problem was there was 120 feet at the rear of the platform where there was no train so one would have to sprint 120 feet just to get to the last car.

[Urbanfortitude]

Problem was there was 120 feet at the rear of the platform where there was no train so one would have to sprint 120 feet just to get to the last car.

 

god forbid any of those people actually needed a workout. >_>;

[lilbluefoxie]

They really could run on the but because 1. the runs 8 cars, and 2. the R42 does not have conductors controls in the 4th or 5th car, new c/r boards would have to be installed or the train would have to end at the front of the platform. The MTA did not want to put up new c/r boards so the trains ended at the front of the platform. Problem was there was 120 feet at the rear of the platform where there was no train so one would have to sprint 120 feet just to get to the last car.

 

I always thought the door controls were at the B end of every married pair car

[R32 3348]

Those were probably trains apart of the scrap consist from weeks ago then. If not from the day the R40s retired, then a week after, the most.

Even then, a barge would have to go out full of the R42's that are already at the yard right now, before they could start sending 207th St. R32's to the reef.