St Louis Car 09 Posted October 14, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 14, 2009 This happened before i was born.When the R46 went through a crap load of problems.One being the failure of the lightweight rockwell HPT-2 truck.I`ve done a lot of reseach on this important time in(NYCT)history.Anyone here remember that period and the mess that it has caused you and the city and whether this type of thing can happen again.Give me some of your stories and theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted October 14, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 14, 2009 The Rockwell Trucks were supposedly designed for running on tracks with ballasts. Since the subway tracks ran on concrete, the excessive pressure caused by the vibrations caused them to crack. Supposedly, the R46s had the best suspension of all the fleets with these trucks as they were said to feel like commuter trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted October 15, 2009 The Rockwell Trucks were supposedly designed for running on tracks with ballasts. Since the subway tracks ran on concrete, the excessive pressure caused by the vibrations caused them to crack. Supposedly, the R46s had the best suspension of all the fleets with these trucks as they were said to feel like commuter trains.See I didnt know that was what they were designed for.In fact the (NYCT) engineers was warned about the use of lightweight trucks but someone went on with the idea.Now you would have thought the(NYCT) would have at least tried the trucks on a 8 car set, but instead equipped them on all 754 cars.Big mistake.I really love the design of the trucks.I never seen the trucks from a side view,in all the pics they are usually shown in a view that obstruct alot of the details of the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted October 15, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 15, 2009 If you have not seen them from a side view try going to a side platform only or double island platform etc and look on say the , you can see the trucks. - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted October 15, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 15, 2009 If you have not seen them from a side view try going to a side platform only or double island platform etc and look on say the , you can see the trucks. - A They're not there any more...I think he was referring to the Rockwell trucks. Here's a few snaps (not mine): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted October 15, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 15, 2009 All of the problems were fixed during the GOH. The R46 is the best subway car ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted October 15, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 15, 2009 All of the problems were fixed during the GOH. The R46 is the best subway car ever. The problems with the truck was fixed long before the GOH program. Also from what I have heard, the R46s are not doing so well especially the ones on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted October 15, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 15, 2009 Those trucks remind me of those on the R142s; very complex looking. The problems with the truck was fixed long before the GOH program. Also from what I have heard, the R46s are not doing so well especially the ones on the line. The R46s are doing fine, but it's just that the crew aren't used to the R46s' braking having operated the R44s for a longer time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted October 15, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 15, 2009 Those trucks remind me of those on the R142s; very complex looking. The R46s are doing fine, but it's just that the crew aren't used to the R46s' braking having operated the R44s for a longer time. A C/R I know says that the R46s out of Jamaica have been having some problems. He cited most were door problems, but even that causes a delay in service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nel070 Posted October 15, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 15, 2009 All of the problems were fixed during the GOH. The R46 is the best subway car ever. amen agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nel070 Posted October 15, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 15, 2009 the 46s are the best cars i have rode they remind me of my childhood as a resident of queens my whole life the and are the trains i have mostly rode and until 1991 they were both all 46s and i think the 46s have improved after the 1990-91 rebuilt by knudsen-morrison who did a great job on them and i enjoyed the pictures above never saw a 46 tagged up like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted October 15, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 15, 2009 never saw a 46 tagged up like that Thats because being one of the few stainless steel cars, they were not a favorite of vandals to hit. The R32-46 were easy to clean compared to the older painted SMEE cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted October 15, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 15, 2009 A C/R I know says that the R46s out of Jamaica have been having some problems. He cited most were door problems, but even that causes a delay in service. This is the first time I heard about this actually. I've always known the R46s to have no technical problems in spite of Jamaica's poor care and the most I expect are broken doorbells. amen agreed I'll second that if they still had an exceptional suspension, functioning doorbells, and WH Propulsion with WH Motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted October 15, 2009 Dont get me wrong I like the R46, but to me the R44s ride smoother with a better sounding propulsion.The rockwell design looked as if it can handle the load.I say to much for the (NYCT) at the time.Quick factoid.There were 4 R32s that were tested with Budd pioneer lightweight trucks for some time before going to conventional trucks.In fact Nippon sharyo of japan has the license for the design of the pioneers and is currently used on some rolling stock in japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayBuffer Posted October 16, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 16, 2009 The problems with the truck was fixed long before the GOH program. Also from what I have heard, the R46s are not doing so well especially the ones on the line. I hear the R-44s have performed better than the R-46s on the despite everyone saying that they're in such bad shape and need to be replaced even before the last SMEEs. Funny about the door problems with the Jamaica R-46s ... the last few days I've encountered several doors cut out on the R-46 trains. I wonder if it's just a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted October 16, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 16, 2009 I hear the R-44s have performed better than the R-46s on the despite everyone saying that they're in such bad shape and need to be replaced even before the last SMEEs. Funny about the door problems with the Jamaica R-46s ... the last few days I've encountered several doors cut out on the R-46 trains. I wonder if it's just a coincidence. I kinda expected the R46s at Pitkin to fall behind because I don't think they have ever been shopped there. Maybe some of the CIs don't know too much about the car, I really don't know but there performance is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted October 16, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 16, 2009 Dont get me wrong I like the R46, but to me the R44s ride smoother with a better sounding propulsion.The rockwell design looked as if it can handle the load.I say to much for the (NYCT) at the time.Quick factoid.There were 4 R32s that were tested with Budd pioneer lightweight trucks for some time before going to conventional trucks.In fact Nippon sharyo of japan has the license for the design of the pioneers and is currently used on some rolling stock in japan. One version of the story blamed TA management for greenlighting the lightweight R46 Rockwell trucks without truly testing them, ordering more when they weren't even sure it would work. Needless to say when the R62A bids went out that's a big reason why Budd's offer didn't win, because they intended to use an unproven truck from an unproven manufacturer and TA leadership at that time wanted no part of another truck fiasco, so it's a reason why Bombardier got the R62A deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted October 16, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 16, 2009 i remember learning about the Rockwell fiasco as a kid. That and i was a kid during the grumman 870 drama. these 2 incidents are the reason why new fleets/components are put thru extensive testing before giving the green light. SubwayGuy, thanks for posting those pics! i personally have never gotten a good look at the trucks untill now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted October 16, 2009 One version of the story blamed TA management for greenlighting the lightweight R46 Rockwell trucks without truly testing them, ordering more when they weren't even sure it would work. Needless to say when the R62A bids went out that's a big reason why Budd's offer didn't win, because they intended to use an unproven truck from an unproven manufacturer and TA leadership at that time wanted no part of another truck fiasco, so it's a reason why Bombardier got the R62A deal. (NYCT) Management was even accused of corruption for purchasing poorly made rolling stock.If Budd would have won the R62A order,they would be in better shape due to the high quality build.Budd actually protested Bombardier winning the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted October 16, 2009 i remember learning about the Rockwell fiasco as a kid. That and i was a kid during the grumman 870 drama. these 2 incidents are the reason why new fleets/components are put thru extensive testing before giving the green light.SubwayGuy, thanks for posting those pics! i personally have never gotten a good look at the trucks untill now Oh thats right the Grumman 870 A-frames were cracking up and the(NYCT)sued Grumman and turned down the rest of the order.Everything back then was cracking up,even management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted October 16, 2009 Share #21 Posted October 16, 2009 (NYCT) Management was even accused of corruption for purchasing poorly made rolling stock.If Budd would have won the R62A order,they would be in better shape due to the high quality build.Budd actually protested Bombardier winning the contract. Actually to counter your point there are many T/O's that think the R62A's assigned to the are in extremely good condition still (The is excluded from this since quite a few have said the brakes on the singles don't react as well). As to how a Budd order would have worked out, I honestly have no idea since the truck design was never tested over NYCT but I can understand why management at that time would have been weary of doing the same thing again experimenting with a lightweight truck considering what happened in the 70's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share #22 Posted October 16, 2009 Actually to counter your point there are many T/O's that think the R62A's assigned to the are in extremely good condition still (The is excluded from this since quite a few have said the brakes on the singles don't react as well). As to how a Budd order would have worked out, I honestly have no idea since the truck design was never tested over NYCT but I can understand why management at that time would have been weary of doing the same thing again experimenting with a lightweight truck considering what happened in the 70's Trur,but i think the R62As on the are in good condition because of the shops they are housed in,but overall the R62A is a good car, but the Kawasaki version is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted October 16, 2009 Share #23 Posted October 16, 2009 Everyone always has their own perceptions of everything but in general (and most T/O's who've operated both that I know say the same thing) the R-62 WABCO brake packages are of an older style more like "Old SMEE" and the R-62A brake packages are a newer style more like what's under an R-68 so it's a matter of preference I guess but most I know prefer the R-62A brakes (except on the singles). It's not like either is inoperable or a "pain" and these folks can do it they just like the way the R-62A responds to grabs of brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted October 16, 2009 Share #24 Posted October 16, 2009 Trur,but i think the R62As on the are in good condition because of the shops they are housed in,but overall the R62A is a good car, but the Kawasaki version is better. The R62s are actually the least favorited of the A division fleets today as the T/Os complain about numerous "issues." I personally view them as R46s with bad motors as they always sqeak like the old SMEEs as they brake. Not to mention, some R62s even flicker when they go through third rail gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share #25 Posted October 16, 2009 Seriously thr R62s are that bad.Wow they use to be one of the best in the system.Maybe its time for a SMS, they are over 20 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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