PopsicleXGirl Posted October 29, 2009 Share #26 Posted October 29, 2009 i definitely think rto operating titles should break away. our job is the sole responsibility of the safe movement of THEIR trains and THEIR customers. the mta needs to be reminded of that when bargaining a contract. it would be in their favor and our favor to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #27 Posted October 29, 2009 see, i just get the feeling that the person who said he'd be willing to give T/Os and C/Rs more money than cleaners and token clerks was just being nice to Jah, who he knew was a T/O. all MTA management thinks all of its workers are overpaid. so to lose your power in numbers when the MTA probably won't give you more anyway i think would be too risky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #28 Posted October 29, 2009 i definitely think rto operating titles should break away. our job is the sole responsibility of the safe movement of THEIR trains and THEIR customers. the mta needs to be reminded of that when bargaining a contract. it would be in their favor and our favor to do so. I hear what you RTO guys are saying, but this is the MTA were talking about they will care about you even less because you will have less representation. RTO operating titles make up less than 20% of all local 100 members. It's just too risky, but if you guys feel like you will be better off then so be it. I have stated several times before everyone does a vital job to keep the system running. Everyone understands you move the people from point a to point b. But that does not make your job more important than mines or anyone else's. You go to work and play your role like I do mines. Believe me if the general riding public does not believe your job entails more than pushing a lever forward and back and that a C/R's job is more than just opening doors and closing them and that my job is to sit on my ass all day long then the MTA thinks even less of you. In these crazy times with the TA all of us local 100 members should be thinking of unity and not separation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopsicleXGirl Posted October 29, 2009 Share #29 Posted October 29, 2009 the only difference is rto operation personnel have people's lives in their hands everyday. i am not denouncing any other title because of it, we all do play a role in the system, but it is reality. it is our sole responsibility to move tons of steel (TO) and control thousands of impulsive people (CR) from point a to point b without any incidents. i hear what you are saying though. it just sounds good in theory i guess, but you are right - we probably don't have the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted October 29, 2009 Share #30 Posted October 29, 2009 see, i just get the feeling that the person who said he'd be willing to give T/Os and C/Rs more money than cleaners and token clerks was just being nice to Jah, who he knew was a T/O. all MTA management thinks all of its workers are overpaid. so to lose your power in numbers when the MTA probably won't give you more anyway i think would be too risky How do you know what the MTA thinks? You don't know anything about the culture down here except what you may have been told. Please let us know how you became an expert on jobs and a company that you don't and haven't worked for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #31 Posted October 29, 2009 well then you'd win every argument if you could just say "well you dont work here so you dont know". i work for an extremely similar quasi-government agency that cares more about its bottom line than its workers, the post office. i couldnt even get a day off to take the court officer exam last saturday because of "staffing". i know how upper management thinks. and guess what? maybe he was telling the truth. but he didn't mean that the clerks and cleaners should get 4% and you should get 6. he meant that you should get 4% and they should get 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted October 29, 2009 Share #32 Posted October 29, 2009 he didn't mean that the clerks and cleaners should get 4% and you should get 6. he meant that you should get 4% and they should get 2 Yeah so what's your point? I would think it would be 4% for some titles and zero for others if the TA had there way in my opinion. The post office is an official FEDERAL agency there is no comparison. They are held accountable to someone unlike the MTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #33 Posted October 29, 2009 I would think it would be 4% for some titles and zero for others if the TA had there way in my opinion.. exactly! so why would you split into 2 unions for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #34 Posted October 29, 2009 exactly! so why would you split into 2 unions for that? Agreed!! I think the argument has been settled with this statement. There is more power in numbers. I don't like playing the race card, but the (NYCT) has alot higher number of minority workers than all companies combined. This "could" be a major reason for the difference in treatmeant ,respect and pay difference from LIRR and MNRR employees . 40 to 50 years ago (NYCT) employees were not treated the way they are treated now . I'M just making a statement , I have no idea if this is factual information, but there is a distinct difference in how the and public feels about (NYCT) workers and LIRR/MNRR workers. And this is more reason why no one should be talking about breaking away. At aleast with 35,000 + members you have more leverage. With a lil bit over 5,000 to 6,000 you don't have the same bargaining power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #35 Posted October 29, 2009 Agreed!! I think the argument has been settled with this statement. There is more power in numbers. I don't like playing the race card, but the (NYCT) has alot higher number of minority workers than all companies combined. This "could" be a major reason for the difference in treatmeant ,respect and pay difference from LIRR and MNRR employees . 40 to 50 years ago (NYCT) employees were not treated the way they are treated now . I'M just making a statement , I have no idea if this is factual information, but there is a distinct difference in how the and public feels about (NYCT) workers and LIRR/MNRR workers. And this is more reason why no one should be talking about breaking away. At aleast with 35,000 + members you have more leverage. With a lil bit over 5,000 to 6,000 you don't have the same bargaining power. lol even if it was all white workers, the is a bunch of cheap asses. they wouldnt even pay them a penny if they didnt HAVE TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted October 29, 2009 Share #36 Posted October 29, 2009 exactly! so why would you split into 2 unions for that? There's ALOT more to a contract than just raises!!! Different departments want and deserve different things. Certain departments get treated alot better than others therefore they vote yes for every contract. There is nothing wrong with wanting a union to negotiate for things that benefit your department rather than 20 other departments. LIRR and MNR both have different unions for the different titles not one giant union and they get very good contracts. I don't understand why it concerns you what employees for a company that you have nothing to do with think about there bargaining unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted October 29, 2009 Share #37 Posted October 29, 2009 Agreed!! I think the argument has been settled with this statement. There is more power in numbers. I don't like playing the race card, but the (NYCT) has alot higher number of minority workers than all companies combined. This "could" be a major reason for the difference in treatmeant ,respect and pay difference from LIRR and MNRR employees . 40 to 50 years ago (NYCT) employees were not treated the way they are treated now . I'M just making a statement , I have no idea if this is factual information, but there is a distinct difference in how the and public feels about (NYCT) workers and LIRR/MNRR workers. And this is more reason why no one should be talking about breaking away. At aleast with 35,000 + members you have more leverage. With a lil bit over 5,000 to 6,000 you don't have the same bargaining power. The numbers don't give you power it's the ability to shut down the system that does. Remember motormen used to be in a seperate union, they were added to TWU because the local NEEDED them not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #38 Posted October 29, 2009 I don't understand why it concerns you what employees for a company that you have nothing to do with think about there bargaining unit. who said i have nothing to do with this company? im going to be on a list for Train Operator in a few months. if i wasn't, i wouldnt have even signed up to be on this website. im what Roger Toussaint would call an "unborn", and you guys even went on strike for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted October 29, 2009 Share #39 Posted October 29, 2009 i wouldnt have even signed up to be on this website. im what Roger Toussaint would call an "unborn", and you guys even went on strike for me Don't take this personally, but I was ready to take the unborn and throw them out the window. I originally wrote something a bit harsher than that, but I had to check myself since kids look at this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted October 29, 2009 Share #40 Posted October 29, 2009 The numbers don't give you power it's the ability to shut down the system that does. Remember motormen used to be in a seperate union, they were added to TWU because the local NEEDED them not the other way around. That was then, this is now. In this economic climate and employer/employee relations we have with the things have changed drastically. And yes I understand the LIRR and MNRR conductors and engineers have separate unions from other positions and have great pay/benefits and such. But that's them not us. What is working for them may or may not work for you in the way you would like it to. If at the time (NYCT) motormen were a separate bargaining unit then why is the pay not much more ?. If they had such bargaining power alone they would have been getting paid more. I'am very sure they didn't give back a whole of money just to join twu local 100 to be paid less then industry standard. Yes T/O's being part of a larger union has probably cause them to get paid less, but it does not seem like they were doing much better by them selves. But it seems like we can disagree on this topic til our eyes turn blue on these boards. But I would vote no, even though I'am not a T/O at the moment but within the next year or two I will be part of RTO and I will still not change my mind about the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S/A Vee Posted October 29, 2009 Share #41 Posted October 29, 2009 I am friends with a T/O who was part of a movement to have LIRR union represent them. According to him they had a decent amount of members. The union representing LIRR engineers rejected them. They rejected them beacause they didn't want go undermine local 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtype3995 Posted November 7, 2009 Share #42 Posted November 7, 2009 having worked in both departments(stations and rto even though tehy are claimed to be grouped as one) im on the fence in having rto seperate from stations.......rto clearly has some advantages over stations(better crew room facilities, better promotional job oportunities), and at this point in time, with a recession and lack of money, how would that look if rto looks to decertify from local 100? i thought all the departments should decertify from local 100 to send a message to them saying to "do better".........you ask anyone, they will tell u rto is a much better department than stations....hands down...... stations employees take a lot of abuse from the public......if the train isnt running or is delayed, the station agent takes the fall..........rto is heavy handed in disiplining its employees, but u ask anyone which dept they would go to, it would be rto......... at this point, i dont think its a good idea to have a seprate union from everyone else........what would it accomplish? you're not going to be guaranteed to be caught up in terms of wages with all the other transit systems........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted November 7, 2009 Share #43 Posted November 7, 2009 having worked in both departments(stations and rto even though tehy are claimed to be grouped as one) im on the fence in having rto seperate from stations.......rto clearly has some advantages over stations(better crew room facilities, better promotional job oportunities), and at this point in time, with a recession and lack of money, how would that look if rto looks to decertify from local 100? i thought all the departments should decertify from local 100 to send a message to them saying to "do better".........you ask anyone, they will tell u rto is a much better department than stations....hands down...... stations employees take a lot of abuse from the public......if the train isnt running or is delayed, the station agent takes the fall..........rto is heavy handed in disiplining its employees, but u ask anyone which dept they would go to, it would be rto......... at this point, i dont think its a good idea to have a seprate union from everyone else........what would it accomplish? you're not going to be guaranteed to be caught up in terms of wages with all the other transit systems........ Yeah I agree with you RTO is a much better department than stations by far. Much more advancement opportunities and such. And yes we take alot of abuse from the public. But the funny thing is we receive just as much abuse from fellow co-workers from Surface and RTO when they want to go thru the service gate and not swipe like there suppose to. I don't mind buzzing somebody in as long as I'am not busy dealing with a customer or doing paper work. It's when they bang on the window when I have a long line and want the gate when they could have just swiped their pass and been on their way. It's gotten so bad that they have printed on all service gates "All Employees Must Swipe". Or If we ask them to sign for the key to the bathroom, most of them seem to get upset for some reason. I never understand why everyone believes it's ok for the S/A to risk their job or be disciplined. But no B/O, C/R or T/O will let me into their cabs and operate anything because it would risk their jobs. So why can't I get the same respect when it comes to my job?. And it is true they have merged the departments together, so maybe things will start become some what better for us. And I also agree that splitting apart would not guarantee any drastic pay increases. As it stands right now our union needs to be more like a real union and not this make shift one we have now. If we were more bonded together and not just looking out for the best intrest of our respective titles we could get more done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelham Bay Dave Posted November 9, 2009 Share #44 Posted November 9, 2009 Sometimes there is a reason you don't want to swipe. We had a incident at 168 a T/O cursed out the station agent because they didn't get buzzed and now we got memo's all over the place. I don't even ask the clerk if the gate is open I walk thru if not I swipe. If your late buy a metrocard. However on the same token if I see a station agent running for my i won't buzz my C/R because of the whole gate situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted November 9, 2009 Share #45 Posted November 9, 2009 Sometimes there is a reason you don't want to swipe. We had a incident at 168 a T/O cursed out the station agent because they didn't get buzzed and now we got memo's all over the place. I don't even ask the clerk if the gate is open I walk thru if not I swipe. If your late buy a metrocard. However on the same token if I see a station agent running for my i won't buzz my C/R because of the whole gate situation. Well I hear you dave but rules are rules. No one should be cursing some one out because they did not want to swipe their pass like they are suppose to. If your out sick and didn't call to leave the house, don't put it on anyone else. Either keep a regular full fare metrocard or get a gate key like I did. Like I also said before I have no problem buzzing anyone in as long as it's done in a courteous manor. What people from rto and surface have to remember is our job function is not only to just buzz you thru the gate. When I go on a bus I don't dip my pass only becasue S/A's passes are pin encoded and need to be in good shape to log onto the Booth terminal computer. And this is also suggested by management for us not to dip our passes on the bus, because if our passes get damaged then a supervisor has to come and manually log us onto the booth terminal computer.. But in the event a B/O ask me to dip my pass I do it and don't complain about it or start an argument over it. I once had a problem with a MNRR employee because I didn't let him on the system free. I tried to give him a clue that my boss was in the booth with me but he still continued to be belligerent about the situation and they are not suppose to ride the system with out paying a fare anyway. It's just that kind of disrespect from other co-workers that makes lots of S/A's not allow anyone thru the gate. So to any of you RTO, Surface or employees from other MTA companies next time you want to go thru the gate be a little bite polite about it, and if the agent tells you that you have to swipe your pass or pay your fare then just do it and move on. It's not worth and argument when all of us are adults and know what we are suppose do with our passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelham Bay Dave Posted November 10, 2009 Share #46 Posted November 10, 2009 There is no reason why there should be a full blown arguement like you said swipe and move on someone could be watching the S/A like a supervisor could be riding the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted November 10, 2009 Share #47 Posted November 10, 2009 There is no reason why there should be a full blown arguement like you said swipe and move on someone could be watching the S/A like a supervisor could be riding the train. Well for some people it seems that it has to be that way. I mean I have asked other S/A's if I could go thru the gate if I had my girl friend with me on a number of occasions. If they said no I just paid for her and swiped my card. But it does help that I'am a S/A and know alot of other clerks. But if most people that get mad about not being buzzed in , stopped and thought about it, all that time it takes you to ask the clerk to get buzzed in and stuff. You could have just have easily swiped your pass and been on the system already. And yes their are people watching us. They have bickies out all the time trying to catch and see if the S/A is leaving the service gate unlocked or if we're letting passengers on with out payment of fare. I mean the situation at Grand Central Station Booth R-238 by the escalators has gotten so bad with MNRR employees that they have put a camera right by the door to see if your letting them on the system for free. We S/A's are under alot more pressure than most other titles mainly because they are trying to find a way to shrink the amount of us they have from 3300 to 2800. So what better way than to fire people for not following protocol. I mean they have already delayed our winter 2010 pick. We should have been picking right now or have been finish since October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelham Bay Dave Posted November 10, 2009 Share #48 Posted November 10, 2009 It seems like S/A , B/O and C/R have it the worst if its not the customers its your own or supervision you got to deal with. In RTO Supervisor will pick on the C/R more then other titles on proceedures. I have had clerks buzz me in when they see my hands are full and in uniform. Those guys I go out of my way for if they trying to catch my train. The ones that don't get no love and same goes for the TPPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted November 10, 2009 Share #49 Posted November 10, 2009 It seems like S/A , B/O and C/R have it the worst if its not the customers its your own or supervision you got to deal with. In RTO Supervisor will pick on the C/R more then other titles on proceedures. I have had clerks buzz me in when they see my hands are full and in uniform. Those guys I go out of my way for if they trying to catch my train. The ones that don't get no love and same goes for the TPPA Well it true we get picked on alot by the supervisors but the CTA (Cleaners) get it from the supervisors much worst than we do. The supervisors really don't bother us when they come into the booth. They just call into the field office to check in their time that they are at the station. And get you to to read and sign their safety times logs. Or they ask you whether the elevator/escalators are working. And now the most important thing is if the "Service Gate" is locking and if the alarm is working as well. I guess with new Line General Managers program being introduced they are getting more strict about things like that. Ever since this pick started for us on Sept 28th they have been bugging us about the gates and if the customer assistance intercom systems are working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted November 10, 2009 Share #50 Posted November 10, 2009 Will, I would hit the Thanks button if you had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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