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Harry

Without Cars, a Different Sort of 42nd St.

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With parts of Times Square converted into a pedestrian mall, at least temporarily, some people say they believe the city should take an even more radical step: close 42nd Street to car traffic and build a light rail system to run the width of Manhattan.

 

The main proponent of this far-reaching proposal is an organization called Vision 42, a citizens’ group with dozens of supporters. It was formed in 1999 by the Institute for Rational Urban Mobility, a nonprofit corporation that finances its initiative with grants from the New York Community Trust/Community Funds Inc. and the John Todd McDowell Environmental Fund.

 

Vision 42 would like to turn the full length of 42nd Street into a pedestrian mall, while adding a light rail line that would connect the 39th Street ferry terminal on the Hudson River, near the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center on the West Side Highway, with the 36th Street ferry terminal on the East River, near the undeveloped Con Edison sites on the Franklin D. Roosevelt Drive.

 

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/realestate/commercial/14rail.html

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I support this also. If this happened M104 could extend to East 34th St Pier Station.

I learned from that site during when lightrail does not operate, bus will run on tracks.

 

I think this is also going to be problem for pedestiran.

For example, I have seen (NJT) RiverLine and Hudson-Bergen Lightrail risking their live and cross in right in front of lightrail to catch their train.

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If the Deuce were turned into a pedestrian mall and a light rail line built, I don't think the M42 would exist anymore.

 

Potential stops I could see:

Second Avenue-Tudor City (Transfer to (T))

Grand Central Terminal-Vanderbilt Avenue (Transfer to (4)(5)(6)<6>(7)<7>(S) MNRR)

Fifth Avenue-New York Public Library (Transfer to (7)<7>(:P(D)(F)(V))

Times Square-Midtown (Transfer to (1)(2)(3)(7)<7>(S)(N)(R)(Q)(W)(A)(C)(E))

Ninth Avenue-PABT (Transfer to (A)(C)(E) Buses)

Eleventh Avenue-West Side

I tried placing stops about two blocks apart with maximum transfers and connections.

 

It sounds like a good idea to have it connect the two ferry terminals. A light rail line might actually help relieve the (S) and (7)<7>.

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Yeah but im sure a light rail would tie up trafic on the surrounding streets going from east to west.

 

This would encourage drivers to use mass transit: leave their stinkin' gas-guzzling cars at home and take the train and walk around a bit!

 

I support a light-rail line transversing 42nd Street as well. It would relieve the (7)/<7> and the (S), but only if you're above-ground though. Still, not a bad idea at all. :cool:

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That would be an idealist thought! It would never work. I live in this area and that is the LAST thing we need. All these save the planet freaks! It WILL NOT work because the traffic around 42nd Street at any avenue is sick enough as it is. Building a light rail line would bottleneck the lincoln tunnel approaches and exits, The West Side Highway, the FDR and UN approaches, as well as the Queens Midtown Tunnel. Guys for the life of me I've heard these dorks and their stupid light rail ideas and some of the dreamer kids here; point being it will not work. The more they try the more stupid and silly they sound because all you say is " Yeah build a light rail line", however they don't take the effects into consideration. The effects I have listed are true and have been getting worse for years and now you want to add a light rail come on, THINK! Stop being dreamers and idealists. Be a realist it makes more common sense. Albeit common sense is this worl is very limited....

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That would be an idealist thought! It would never work. I live in this area and that is the LAST thing we need. All these save the planet freaks! It WILL NOT work because the traffic around 42nd Street at any avenue is sick enough as it is. Building a light rail line would bottleneck the lincoln tunnel approaches and exits, The West Side Highway, the FDR and UN approaches, as well as the Queens Midtown Tunnel. Guys for the life of me I've heard these dorks and their stupid light rail ideas and some of the dreamer kids here; point being it will not work. The more they try the more stupid and silly they sound because all you say is " Yeah build a light rail line", however they don't take the effects into consideration. The effects I have listed are true and have been getting worse for years and now you want to add a light rail come on, THINK! Stop being dreamers and idealists. Be a realist it makes more common sense. Albeit common sense is this worl is very limited....

 

O RLY???

Common sense? Common sense should tell you that you don't need a car. It's all luxury. If people had common sense, then they wouldn't be driving around in death traps then. You don't really need a car, but if you choose to, you're putting upon yourself insurance bills, gas, tickets...do I need to go on? That's the cost of owning a car, which is why I do not want to own a vehicle of any sort.

 

If such a plan does get initiated, I'll be ridden with joy. And for those of you who think that bottlenecking will be the ultimate price, you can curve the problem by leaving your car at home! Nuff said.

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I know that! I agree with the idea. I do not own a car. I live by the tunnel. My take on it is if you guys do not live around here you do not know what it is like with all that goes on here. I am not disagreeing with the whole idea of cars. Although I won't go as far with not owning one because they are necessary for a few things but that's off topic. I just am saying that the way this "great idea" will affect MY neighborhood is negative. Bottom line. I have lived here all my life I know and have seen many things more than you in my neighborhood and can tell you that while it may sound great. Manhattan, especially my neighborhood does not have the room or feasibility for this plan. It is a great initiative but only in an ideal world. The car is here to stay bottom line. You cannot and will not get people to leave their cars at home. Like i said I do NOT own a car. I just have lived a lot longer than you and seen more than you in my neighborhood. Not trying to argue or start a flame war or whatever you guys get pissed about. It is just fact. No need for proof because i see it everyday. No doubt you are right about the car theory but everything else..... nope. Sorry. Reminder not arguing nothing personal.

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Actually this plan is supported by real estate developers and special interests which is the only reason this is being seriously considered. It's going to be one big friggin' mall driving up property values all around here and all around Manhattan further and another ploy to kick out residents, and bring in business.

 

Because of that I say no.

 

The environmental impact is the reason they're going to force feed the public, but I see through the (:P(S)

 

Light rail would be interesting to see in the city, just not on 42nd st. as the center of some "grand new mall"

Edited by SubwayGuy

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Some but not the majority. That is the one of the main reasons why I say no. Property values here will go up once the (7) line extension has been completed, the javits Center has been expanded, the Hudson Rail yards have been developed, and the Condos going up along 10th avenue are completed. This is a vision I saw coming once they started knocking down buildings in my neighborhood. Want another sign? Look @ 34th street between 7th & 8th avenues. The cheap hotel is being knocked down, along with many shops along that side of the street have been vacated or bought out. It's only a matter of time. I hope none of you go through what I've been seeing and experiencing. (Long story) It takes a toll on you believe me....

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If that happens, here is my idea for buses.

Create 11th Av bet 34th & 42nd Sts two ways with new bus layover for M34/M42, and well as create ferry shuttle bus stops on 12th Av side.

M34: Follows M16 route.

M42- Runs when lightrail is not operating and on track.

M104: Extend via 34th St/M16 route.

12th Av-West Side Highway should create overpass for non buses only while make street level surface for buses only bet. 23rd & 50th Sts.

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Keep it open to cars, have a streetcar/trolly/tram that circulated between 42nd and 33rd st going to 2nd ave and back to 8th ave.

 

- A

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We should be more concerned about the SAS

 

Light rail in a loop would take about 2 years to put into functionality from nothing on paper. Most of that would be people haggling in city hall over it.

 

- A

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why not just leave it the way it is already, i'm sick of all this 'green' city crap

 

Damn right. They all call it "green", but all I see is brown.

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Damn right. They all call it "green", but all I see is brown.

 

If it smells like s***

If it looks like s***

 

it probably IS s***

 

that's what this is. A bogus reason force fed to the public to further commercialize our city for the gain of already wealthy real estate developers and provide more stores, more malls, to separate YOU from YOUR money.

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Uh guys, on average a tank of gasoline (car) creates 320 pounds of carbon dioxide. If "this green movement crap" doesn't catch on & fast half of NYC will be under water in 100 years.. Maybe instead of seeing change as something trying to make you do something you don't want to do, see it as something that if you don't do you basically are wishing the human race to expire. Then again most people only care about themselves, not realizing/not caring that everything is linked together. Sounding like some NIMBY's much?

 

- A

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Anything that commercializes is counter productive. A truly "green" solution would be banning automobile traffic on 42nd, putting the light rail line in, reducing bus service throughout Manhattan and expanding the light rail program to be similar to Boston using the middle of the street...and leaving the area as is rather than allowing developers to come in.

 

But they dont' want that. They want to commercialize it.

 

Likewise the environmental problem is a lot bigger than one street and needs to be addressed in the future at the highest levels, not as an opportunistic "one off" situation by a bunch of business groups because they see a different kind of "green" than you or I or anyone here might.

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Uh guys, on average a tank of gasoline (car) creates 320 pounds of carbon dioxide. If "this green movement crap" doesn't catch on & fast half of NYC will be under water in 100 years.. Maybe instead of seeing change as something trying to make you do something you don't want to do, see it as something that if you don't do you basically are wishing the human race to expire. Then again most people only care about themselves, not realizing/not caring that everything is linked together. Sounding like some NIMBY's much?

 

- A

The human race is egotistical to think they can have any effect on the planet. We've been here for a fraction of the time the Earth has been part of the Milky Galaxy and some how we can save the Earth? The Earth was here before us and will be here after us, it survived being hit by asteroids, I think it will survive this virus called the Human race. Our demise is not avoidable, it's a question of when, not will it.

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I dont buy this global warming nonsense. Ok fine Hybrids are out its cool you save on gas yada yada but nyc is not going to be underwater in a 100 years...stop with the fairytales. All of a sudden manhattan has to be all trendy and tourist friendly? Do we need a lightrail going across 42st and holding up MORE traffic? No, its already bad that they closed up bway for a pedestrian mall so 'ma & pa' from kentucky can walk around and buy empire state buildings in snow globes. lol

-from a fustrated nyc driver. Thank you.

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