Grand Concourse Posted October 16, 2009 Share #26 Posted October 16, 2009 I don't expect the fare to be $2.25 for long, but it's not a full jump to $3 or even $2.50 like when they raised the fare from $1.50 to $2 once all the tokens were phased out. Even at $3, it's still cheaper to take the subways/buses than it is to drive or take the express bus/commuter rail. But what do you concider a fair rate of increase then? That's where I don't quite follow on what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted October 16, 2009 Share #27 Posted October 16, 2009 I agree.For example, taking bus-subway ride from Long Island through NYC to Westchester County is cheaper than taking LIRR to Subway to MNRR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 16, 2009 Share #28 Posted October 16, 2009 People keep saying that they want service improvments. That costs money, so if you really want express service here, a station rehab there, a new bus route on this part of the city, or ADA access you need to pay for it. Nothing is free so stop being cheap and pay the extra $.25 or keep the fare the same for several years and suffer for it down the road. Right now we are paying off the damage done when the fare was kept at $.5 for several decades and when they did raise the fare, it was not raised enough to keep the system in good repair. Now they are trying to fix all the damage done in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's. If you don't like it, don't pay and done ride the subway or buses. pfft, I guess you haven't noticed people hopping the backs of buses as of late... and I'm not referring to the Bx12 sbs either... of course b/o's aren't gonna make ppl. pay their fare b/c they're trying to go home at the end of the night.... the average passenger isn't going to say anything due to not wanting to start a conflict over nothing they have control over..... far as not opting to ride public transportation... ppl. are already resorting to that... surely you've seen bicycle lanes (and [motor] vehicle lane narrowings) taking place around the boroughs... worse, never have I seen so many people walking across bridges to get where they have to go..... but it's funny when you say: Nothing is free so stop being cheap and pay the extra $.25 or keep the fare the same for several years and suffer for it down the road. Right now we are paying off the damage done when the fare was kept at $.5 for several decades ....and suffer for it down the road... what, you mean, like riders 4 decades ago had to... lol.... but thanks for letting us know (or feel like) we're (meaning, riders in the present) are coming out of pocket for the neglect of the system that took place so long ago.... hell, you'll even have some that say that we're slowly reverting to the way things were back in the 80's.... one of which is a member on here w/ the handle of "John Q Pine" on here... The MTA.... going...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 16, 2009 Share #29 Posted October 16, 2009 I don't expect the fare to be $2.25 for long, but it's not a full jump to $3 or even $2.50 like when they raised the fare from $1.50 to $2 once all the tokens were phased out.Even at $3, it's still cheaper to take the subways/buses than it is to drive or take the express bus/commuter rail. But what do you concider a fair rate of increase then? That's where I don't quite follow on what you said. I'll put it to you this way... If the fare stays at 2.25 for another 5 years, and then jumps another 50 cents after that (after 2014), I consider that fair & would have less of a problem w/ it.... it's the (duration b/w the fare increase) tied into (the rate of the increase itself).... If the fare stays at 2.25 for 3 years, then jumps to some odd number like 2.40... and 5 years after that, it goes up another quarter, I would have a problem with that... even if in another 8-10 years the fare would be cheaper (than in scenario 1)... why, because it sets a precedent... In general, nobody (well, at least I don't) wants to feel like they're being nickel & dimed.... People out there really feel as if "nothing" is being made to make their commutes any better.. you read stories where people complain about all the construction being done on "their" lines, but yet they see no benefit from said construction (especially regarding trackwork)... I mean, I'on't make this stuff up, bro... people really feel as if they're being shafted; paying more for... "nothing".... I don't know how many times I've actually heard someone say: "we're paying an extra quarter for this".... with the expletive omitted at the end, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted October 16, 2009 Share #30 Posted October 16, 2009 Ok, all this aside B35 whre do you stand on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted October 16, 2009 Share #31 Posted October 16, 2009 I'll put it to you this way... If the fare stays at 2.25 for another 5 years, and then jumps another 50 cents after that (after 2014), I consider that fair & would have less of a problem w/ it.... it's the (duration b/w the fare increase) tied into (the rate of the increase itself).... If the fare stays at 2.25 for 3 years, then jumps to some odd number like 2.40... and 5 years after that, it goes up another quarter, I would have a problem with that... even if in another 8-10 years the fare would be cheaper (than in scenario 1)... why, because it sets a precedent... In general, nobody (well, at least I don't) wants to feel like they're being nickel & dimed.... People out there really feel as if "nothing" is being made to make their commutes any better.. you read stories where people complain about all the construction being done on "their" lines, but yet they see no benefit from said construction (especially regarding trackwork)... I mean, I'on't make this stuff up, bro... people really feel as if they're being shafted; paying more for... "nothing".... I don't know how many times I've actually heard someone say: "we're paying an extra quarter for this".... with the expletive omitted at the end, of course. Precedent? Are you aware that from the mid 1990s until 2003 that the fare was relatively stable??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 16, 2009 Share #32 Posted October 16, 2009 Ok, all this aside B35 whre do you stand on this? on what, the fare being 2.25? I already said I don't have a problem with the fare amount... It sure as hell isn't too high if I still joyride w/i the system... hell, the express bus is now a part of my daily PM commute, so that shows how ridiculous I think paying 5.50 isn't.... I don't feel as if I'm being shafted at all... of course I won't be alive to see the infamous SAS, but as long as I see SOME type of positive change w/i the system, I'm not gonna engage in a riot act of complaints- just for the shear hell of it... chronically complaining solves nothing.... Anyway, I can't wait to see how all the stations along the brighton will look once that project is done.... GO's don't bother me as it does the average person... although I refrain from taking subway shuttles, I don't mind taking the extra local bus or two... This isn't B35 saying {F' the mta & they can take their fare increase & shove it}... That what I'm beginning to think, some of you think is my stance... and it's not.... Point blank, period. Continuing on, I don't see things going back to the way they were in the 80's... that's being too damn pessimistic... although I'm not thrilled at the fact that token booth clerks are becoming obsolete, thanks to the almighty MVM (smh... but lol), I don't see a huge wave of people jumping turnstiles like in those days & tagging up entire subway trains.... You were pretty vague in asking me where I stand on this.... Hope this answers your question... somewhat.... Precedent? Are you aware that from the mid 1990s until 2003 that the fare was relatively stable??? Dude (Grand Concourse to be exact) asked what I thought a fair rate of increase was... I gave two scenarios to try to illustrate my point; one of which I thought was fair, one of which.. well, not so much. and yes, when the fare changes everytime you look, that does set a precedent (not sure where you took that to mean that I was talking about the MTA in that scenario... BUT)... it would be like the MTA saying "we can increase the fare whenever, and to whatever, and it aint a thing the riding public can do about it but pay it".... If you think upping the fare every one to two years is more stable than upping the fare every five years, then I don't know what else to tell you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted October 16, 2009 Share #33 Posted October 16, 2009 Ok, point taken. And I do not have a problem with that. I guess I would prefer a few years of 'stability' and then a large increase at the end of say the 5th year. It's hard enough as it is to keep track of how much to refill the card plus the bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted October 16, 2009 Share #34 Posted October 16, 2009 Precedent? Are you aware that from the mid 1990s until 2003 that the fare was relatively stable??? Actually not really: $1.25 (January 1992 – November 1995) $1.50 (November 1995 – May 2003) $2.00 (May 2003 – June 2009) So that's 2 fare increases from 1992 - 2003 (from $1.25 -> $1.50 -> $2), or an average of one every 5 1/2 years. Now in 2009, from $2 -> $2.25 has actually been six years since the last one, so that's consistent with the rate of fare hikes above. Fare hikes happened far more frequently in the 1980's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted October 16, 2009 Share #35 Posted October 16, 2009 Around 1983 PATH doubled the fare from 50 cents to $1.00. In twenty-six years since, PATH has only increased by 75 cents. PATCO has one of the lower fares but their $1.25 is Pennsylvania only or Camden (City Hall or Broadway only) to Pennsylvania. $1.45 New Jersey only then $2.05 Ferry Avenue to Pennsylvania; $2.35 Collinswood, Haddonfield or Westmont to Pennsylvania and $2.70 Ashland, Woodcrest and Lindenwold to Pennsylvania. In Washington, D.C., Metrorail charges by zone and rush hours. A trip between Stadium-Armory and Forest Glen (11.60 milles) is $3.70 and $2.35 non rush hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted October 17, 2009 Share #36 Posted October 17, 2009 I don't think $2.25 is too high. I am not sure if it is possible to get a free transfer from the Bee-Line Bus System to the subway, but if it is, it is possible to get from the Connecticut border to Far Rockaway for just one fare, which is pretty incredible. However, fare increases are only justified when it keeps pace with the Consumer Price Index. Any fare increase that exceeds the inflation rate represents an unfair tax on commuters. Increasing fares by astronomical amounts (like the proposed $3 from $2) cannot be justified by the need for maintenance and improvement of existing infrastructure or the construction of new infrastructure, since this ought to have been incorporated into the (MTA)'s budget and accounted for in the previous fare's structure. I do think the rips off people who need short-term Unlimited Ride MetroCards. The $89 card for 30-days works out to a lot less per ride (assuming one rides 25 days a month and makes two trips per day, or 50 rides, amounting to $112.50, or $97.83 in Pay-per-ride cards with bonuses added) than either Pay-per-ride cards or other Unlimited Ride cards. On the other hand, with a 7-day Unlimited Ride card, even if one rides everyday and pays 14 fares in total, the total cost of $31.50 could be paid for by a $27 pay-per-ride Metrocard, and the savings that accrue with a 30-day card ($97.83 - $89 = $8.83 ~ $9) would not occur. Similarly, unless you take at least 6 rides on a One-Day Fun Pass, it is cheaper to simply get a $8.25 pay-per-ride Metrocard and the 15% bonus. Seeing that the 30-Day card was only $63 in 1998, a $26 increase in 11 years does seem to be a little more than an adjustment for inflation. I hope the card stays at $89 for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPBO Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share #37 Posted October 18, 2009 Seeing that the 30-Day card was only $63 in 1998, a $26 increase in 11 years does seem to be a little more than an adjustment for inflation. I hope the card stays at $89 for a few years. So think about all the money you are saving verses having a car......89 bucks a month verses say 500 or better......seems like a great value!! I know that sometimes the system may not be the most reliable but if something stops working you can usually find another way home....work being done on the E train....free Shuttle Bus....if the 7 trains has signal problems and you are at Queens Plaza.....you can jump off and get any number of buses to anywhere.....B61 to Brooklyn.....Q66 to Main Street.... Q60 down Queens Blvd etc..... I just found it eye popping to pay close to 4.00 for a single ride in the Netherlands and it was only good for an Hr and you don't even get a transfer!!! Talk about ripping you off!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted October 18, 2009 Share #38 Posted October 18, 2009 Seeing that the 30-Day card was only $63 in 1998, a $26 increase in 11 years does seem to be a little more than an adjustment for inflation. I hope the card stays at $89 for a few years. So think about all the money you are saving verses having a car......89 bucks a month verses say 500 or better......seems like a great value!! I know that sometimes the system may not be the most reliable but if something stops working you can usually find another way home....work being done on the E train....free Shuttle Bus....if the 7 trains has signal problems and you are at Queens Plaza.....you can jump off and get any number of buses to anywhere.....B61 to Brooklyn.....Q66 to Main Street.... Q60 down Queens Blvd etc..... I just found it eye popping to pay close to 4.00 for a single ride in the Netherlands and it was only good for an Hr and you don't even get a transfer!!! Talk about ripping you off!!! Yeah I hear you but I don't know if either of us can really give an fair opinion when we get to ride the system for free as employees. But $2.25 is a good deal compared to most other transits system thru out the country and world for that matter. For $2.25 you can get thru 4 boros of the city on the subway and all 5 boros with the bus. And transfer for free within 2 hours. Sounds pretty good to me. When I was a paying customer I never had a problem with the fare cause I always bought 7 day unlimited cards no matter what. If your using pay per ride cards and you ride often, then you're cheating yourself if you don't get unlimited cards or at least buy more than $8 to take advantage of the 15% bonus. As my job as S/A it amazes me how many people just buy $4.50 every single day and pay much more money then they have to. They will buy $4.50 five days a week for 30 days and spend $90 when they could buy $20 a week and spend $80 a month and get the same amount rides while saving $10. Or they could buy the 30 unlimited card and save only $1 a month but get free rides on those days they are not going to work and bring the cost of each trip to much lower than $2.25. I know everyone's financial situation is not the same but at least everyone should take advantage of the 15% bonus and free money that adds up to free rides in the long run which in turn saves you money overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqueduct Posted October 18, 2009 Share #39 Posted October 18, 2009 With the trade I am in (construction) I am stuck with pay per ride, I could get transfered to a spot where taking an express bus is pointless and an unlimited express bus pass is useless in terms of saving money. I am pretty sure that the MTA has a second set of books too, they are always crying poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted October 18, 2009 Share #40 Posted October 18, 2009 So think about all the money you are saving verses having a car......89 bucks a month verses say 500 or better......seems like a great value!! I know that sometimes the system may not be the most reliable but if something stops working you can usually find another way home....work being done on the E train....free Shuttle Bus....if the 7 trains has signal problems and you are at Queens Plaza.....you can jump off and get any number of buses to anywhere.....B61 to Brooklyn.....Q66 to Main Street.... Q60 down Queens Blvd etc..... I just found it eye popping to pay close to 4.00 for a single ride in the Netherlands and it was only good for an Hr and you don't even get a transfer!!! Talk about ripping you off!!! I don't see why the car vs public transport issue comes up. Your comparison with mass transit in Holland is fair enough. However, if I could afford a car (down payments, loan payments, insurance, gas, maintenance, parking, tolls etc) the cost of an Unlimited Ride card at either $63 or $89 would be so insignificant that I wouldn't bother commenting on it. The fact is, I cannot afford a car, so I use public transit. If one of the objectives of mass transit is to make travelling easier for those who do not own cars, then the fare should not increase at a rate faster than inflation. If I can afford a step-up in fares, then by spending some more I could actually get a car. The fact is, if fares go up by 41% in a decade, it acts like a regressive tax and inconveniences those who work part-time and/or on the minimum wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted October 18, 2009 Share #41 Posted October 18, 2009 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted October 19, 2009 Share #42 Posted October 19, 2009 I don't see why the car vs public transport issue comes up. Your comparison with mass transit in Holland is fair enough. However, if I could afford a car (down payments, loan payments, insurance, gas, maintenance, parking, tolls etc) the cost of an Unlimited Ride card at either $63 or $89 would be so insignificant that I wouldn't bother commenting on it. The fact is, I cannot afford a car, so I use public transit. If one of the objectives of mass transit is to make travelling easier for those who do not own cars, then the fare should not increase at a rate faster than inflation. If I can afford a step-up in fares, then by spending some more I could actually get a car. The fact is, if fares go up by 41% in a decade, it acts like a regressive tax and inconveniences those who work part-time and/or on the minimum wage. I hear what your saying about those that work part time or minimum wage, but if society really cared about those people all the much, they would not leave the minimum wage so low as it stands now at about $7.35.hr. We live in a capitalist society, so $2.25 is still the best deal in the city. People complain about fare increases and such but the last time the fare was raised was 2003. So after six years the base fare was only raised .25. Riders were sparred multiple fare increases by the TA only raising the unlimited metro card prices, which either way you look at it is still a deal for people who ride very frequently because they will still end up paying less then the base fare and getting free rides on top of it. If the (NYCT) had zone based fares then everyone would wish they still had that single base fare price system once again. I know I personally don't have to pay the fare but if I did it is still more economical to take mass transit then to drive a car and pay for gas,tolls,insurance and tickets per month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted October 19, 2009 Share #43 Posted October 19, 2009 Don't forget that minimum wage was not raised between 1981 and 1990 and when it was, it was based on the $3.35 it went up to in 1981 (one of the last things of the Carter Administration) and the increase was able to bring it up to only $3.80. In those same nine years, subway fare increased from 60 cents to 75 cents to 90 cents to $1.00 to $1.15. In 1981, a minimum wage worker took only a few minutes' work to earn their 60 cent token; by 1990, it took a minimum wage worker nearly a half-hours' work to earn their $1.15 token. With minimum wage at $7.25 and a subway ride at $2.25, we're back to where it takes a person only a few minutes' work to earn a subway fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted October 19, 2009 Share #44 Posted October 19, 2009 Don't forget that minimum wage was not raised between 1981 and 1990 and when it was, it was based on the $3.35 it went up to in 1981 (one of the last things of the Carter Administration) and the increase was able to bring it up to only $3.80. In those same nine years, subway fare increased from 60 cents to 75 cents to 90 cents to $1.00 to $1.15. In 1981, a minimum wage worker took only a few minutes' work to earn their 60 cent token; by 1990, it took a minimum wage worker nearly a half-hours' work to earn their $1.15 token. With minimum wage at $7.25 and a subway ride at $2.25, we're back to where it takes a person only a few minutes' work to earn a subway fare. Yes, I admit that the fare is a fraction of most people's hourly wage. But it could be lower. PATH has a 30-Day Unlimited SmartLink Card that costs $54 and a single ride costs $1.75. $1.75 is about 78% of $2.25, but 78% of $89 is $69 ($54 is only 60% of $89). PATH users therefore save $15 a month by using PATH 30 Day Unlimited Card as compared to MTA riders, if the ratios of single fares and monthly passes are compared. Put simply, PATH taxes its occasional customers highly and passes on the discount to regular users. on the other hand knows that 60% or more of the riders use Unlimited Ride cards and obtain maximum revenue from there. Also, at $54, the monthly pass can be purchased with less than 8 hours of minimum wage work, while the MTA's monthly pass requires well over 12 hours. Hudson-Bergen Light Rail has a similar $58 monthly pass, requiring exactly 8 hours work on the federal minimum if you relied solely on HBLR for your commute. While the (MTA)'s MetroCard gives you access to an extensive bus service, the Roosevelt Island Tramway and Westchester's Bee-Line bus service, the does not share in the costs of the latter two, and while the makes no revenue from swipes at the RIOC Tram and Bee-Line, the overall cost of a monthly pass could be reduced by making it ineligible for use of the tramway, Bee-Line and possibly Staten Island Railway, and forcing people to pay by pay-per-ride card instead (similar to Express buses). The regular users of the ineligible systems could always use their free transfers to ride the said systems. The maximum value for the 30 Day Unlimited MetroCard should have remained at around $75-76, in accordance with inflation and minimum wage changes. The last two price increases, first to $81 and then $89, can be seen as a burden, especially since New York State had a $7.15 minimum wage a few years ago when the Federal minimum was still $5.15 and then $5.85, but is now level with the federal minimum, so real wages haven't risen in NY while the price of everything has gone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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