gregorygrice Posted December 22, 2010 Share #326 Posted December 22, 2010 An M8 can't handle 750VDC on the third rail? Interesting... MNRR's third rail is very different from LIRR's third rail. LIRR's pick up is from the top (like the subways) and MNRR's us from the bottom. That's why the M8s have a retracting third rail shoe or else they would destroy LIRRs's third rail 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted December 22, 2010 Share #327 Posted December 22, 2010 MNRR's third rail is very different from LIRR's third rail. LIRR's pick up is from the top (like the subways) and MNRR's us from the bottom. That's why the M8s have a retracting third rail shoe or else they would destroy LIRRs's third rail I didn't think you were talking about the shoe difference; the way you worded it seemed as if they couldn't handle the voltage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted December 25, 2010 Share #328 Posted December 25, 2010 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregorygrice Posted December 25, 2010 Share #329 Posted December 25, 2010 I think the M8's should rather use catenary all the way into Penn rather than bothering with two Third Rail Shoes. It would not be convienient if there are gonna be two shoes and a risk of the third rail getting destroyed no matter on the MNR or LIRR, and as for Secaucus, same thing use catenary, there is no third rail west of the Hudson I think. They are using catenary all the way. The M8s do not have two different third rail shoes. When in catenary territory they will retract so that they don't damage LIRRs third rail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted December 25, 2010 Share #330 Posted December 25, 2010 I think the M8's should rather use catenary all the way into Penn rather than bothering with two Third Rail Shoes. It would not be convienient if there are gonna be two shoes and a risk of the third rail getting destroyed no matter on the MNR or LIRR, and as for Secaucus, same thing use catenary, there is no third rail west of the Hudson I think. It can't handle the 25hz catenary that Amtrak uses from GATE on south! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N-Trizzy2609 Posted December 27, 2010 Share #331 Posted December 27, 2010 NO!!! It runs to Secaucus not via catenary, but via LIRR third rail at where the frequency changes from 60hz to 25hz. It can only go as far as the NJ tunnel portal. No, the M8 will only use the LIRR third rail inna event of emergancy. It will use overhead cat in the Penn. Please don't fight with me. I'm in no mood to break it down to a machinical level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted January 2, 2011 Share #332 Posted January 2, 2011 They are using catenary all the way. The M8s do not have two different third rail shoes. When in catenary territory they will retract so that they don't damage LIRRs third rail. The M8's most certainly will have a unique variable-position third rail shoe system, in which, as I've come to understand, the shoes are spring-loaded and the engineer is able to control the height of the shoes. I may be off on that one, but it's just one more innovative feature on these new railcars. I believe that the first 50 cars will be delivered from the factory with an under-running collection system to be be retrofitted with the same variable-height shoes that all cars thereafter will be delivered with. I've seen a few pictures of the shoes and associated apparatuses, and it really is unlike anything that I've ever seen. It can't handle the 25hz catenary that Amtrak uses from GATE on south! Amtrak7 is correct. The M8's cannot currently operate on the 12 kV/25 Hz catenary system that begins just east of Interlocking "GATE". The third rail doesn't pick up until about a half mile east of Interlocking "HAROLD", just east of the Amtrak and LIRR trackage junction. The goal is to ultimately extend an over-running third rail system east through that 1.4-mile stretch. If and when this will ever happen is beyond me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerboy6561 Posted January 3, 2011 Share #333 Posted January 3, 2011 The M8's most certainly will have a unique variable-position third rail shoe system, in which, as I've come to understand, the shoes are spring-loaded and the engineer is able to control the height of the shoes. I may be off on that one, but it's just one more innovative feature on these new railcars. I believe that the first 50 cars will be delivered from the factory with an under-running collection system to be be retrofitted with the same variable-height shoes that all cars thereafter will be delivered with. I've seen a few pictures of the shoes and associated apparatuses, and it really is unlike anything that I've ever seen. Amtrak7 is correct. The M8's cannot currently operate on the 12 kV/25 Hz catenary system that begins just east of Interlocking "GATE". The third rail doesn't pick up until about a half mile east of Interlocking "HAROLD", just east of the Amtrak and LIRR trackage junction. The goal is to ultimately extend an over-running third rail system east through that 1.4-mile stretch. If and when this will ever happen is beyond me. OK, but I'm a little disappointed by this; it probably would have been better to put a 25Hz transformer on the cars at little or no extra cost per car than to spend millions and wait years for them to install new third rail. Besides, 25Hz capacity would allow M8 consists to run the Meadowland specials as well as operation in and out of Secaucus should that be feasible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted January 3, 2011 Share #334 Posted January 3, 2011 OK, but I'm a little disappointed by this; it probably would have been better to put a 25Hz transformer on the cars at little or no extra cost per car than to spend millions and wait years for them to install new third rail. Besides, 25Hz capacity would allow M8 consists to run the Meadowland specials as well as operation in and out of Secaucus should that be feasible. The M8's at 135,000 lbs. are already 15,000 lbs. heavier than the M7/A's. You're also further complicating a very complex electrical system that the M8's employ for both the train crews and car mechanics, all the while reducing acceleration rates and increasing breaking distances for just one short section of trackage in anticipation of rumored service. It's not as if you can just "put" a 25 Hz transformer on the cars and set them rolling down the rails anyway. A huge reason for the third rail extension east of HAROLD and installation of variable-position shoes on the M8's is to provide Metro-North Service into NYP. Really, converting the catenary in NYP to a 12.5 kV/60 Hz system like what Metro-North has would have probably been the most cost-effective and time-saving move. MNR train crews can't operate west of NYP. During the Train to the Game runs using NJT equipment, MNR crews operate into NYP, and NJT crews assume the rest of the run. Something tells me that CDOT isn't going to want anyone except MNR and SLE crews playing with their expensive new toys. And I really don't see any real reason to operate MNR equipment all the way to Secaucus. I can't imagine that kind of service coming close to being profitable throughout the year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted January 3, 2011 Share #335 Posted January 3, 2011 Some M8 pics at Grand Central. Hopefully they arrive at the end of the month. http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1019828 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted January 3, 2011 Share #336 Posted January 3, 2011 Some M8 pics at Grand Central. Hopefully they arrive at the end of the month. http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1019828 Most likely not. I doubt that we'll see an eight-car consist enter revenue service before Valentine's, and quite frankly, I'm happy that CDOT has been pushing the big debut back for one huge reason: thorough testing. These cars need to have the Dickens tested out of them in order to properly assess all capabilities and to quell as many issues before Kawasaki begins full swing production. I'd really hate to see a debacle similar to the R46's in the late 70's when the mothballed R16GE's were brought back into service because of shoddy construction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share #337 Posted January 22, 2011 Oy Vey.More delays for the M8s (Mates) http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Metro-North-seeks-12-M-for-new-train-testing-971227.php 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted January 23, 2011 Share #338 Posted January 23, 2011 Oy Vey.More delays for the M8s (Mates) http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Metro-North-seeks-12-M-for-new-train-testing-971227.php This sucks:tdown:. This means the aging (being kind)M-2's will be around until at least 2012. While delays are a 'normal part' of the process with new rail cars in the system, this now 1-year plus delay is starting to become a concern. I don't remember this much problem with the M7's which are almost the same bulit as these babys. Dumb Question. Could Metro North/CDOT get and buy any 'disel' trains from other nearby regional transit agencies such as (SEPTA) (NJT) etc. to replace a few of the M-2's that should have been retired at least couple of years ago? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgedPolaris Posted January 23, 2011 Share #339 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Dumb Question. Could Metro North/CDOT get and buy any 'disel' trains from other nearby regional transit agencies such as (SEPTA) (NJT) etc. to replace a few of the M-2's that should have been retired at least couple of years ago? Considering SEPTA's network is 100% electric, I doubt they have any diesels to spare. Also the Silverliner II was introduced in '63 and the III in '67, so those cars are up to a decade the M2's senior, and the bulk of SEPTA's fleet, the IV, are about the same age as the M2s. If any agency has whining rights about old equipment, it sure is them... haha. I could be totally off on this, but save Amtrak, isn't Metro North the only other agency with diesels compatible with the New Haven line all the way down into GCT? Given the infrastructure constraints and then having to have third rail capability, there's simply nothing else "off the shelf" out there. Edited January 23, 2011 by AgedPolaris typo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus Guy Posted January 23, 2011 Share #340 Posted January 23, 2011 If they really need cars and IF it comes to this, they could barrow some of the mothballed Comet IIIs that (NJT) has and put the M2/M4/M6s on the runs into GCT then run diesels on the rest of the line 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip1035 Posted January 25, 2011 Share #341 Posted January 25, 2011 Maybe we should rename the title of this from "New M8's is a go!!" to "New M8's a Failure" I've been following this posting for a while with hopes of seeing the M8 come into service. Guess now all we'll have is hope and faith with these cars because I'm done waiting. Let it happen, my excitement on these cars has died.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted January 25, 2011 Share #342 Posted January 25, 2011 Maybe we should rename the title of this from "New M8's is a go!!" to "New M8's a Failure" I've been following this posting for a while with hopes of seeing the M8 come into service. Guess now all we'll have is hope and faith with these cars because I'm done waiting. Let it happen, my excitement on these cars has died.... Welcome aboard Chip. Could not agree with what you said above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip1035 Posted January 25, 2011 Share #343 Posted January 25, 2011 I found this off Subchat. Doesn't say anything new but little insight on issues. 6 years and counting on getting a train on the tracks.... :mad: http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1029356 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted January 25, 2011 Share #344 Posted January 25, 2011 If it's Subchat then the information isn't credible 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerboy6561 Posted January 25, 2011 Share #345 Posted January 25, 2011 I've been following this procurement on railroad.net for some time now, and I have to disagree with Shortline Bus. These cars are some of the most advanced machinery on the rails to date; they are capable of running off 750V DC third rail in two different positions and two different catenary voltages. They are also almost completely electronically controlled, and they are capable of working off ACSES and MNR cab signaling. With something this complex there are bound to be issues/glitches/complications, and would rather delay their introduction into the commuter fleet than risk having to pull them out of service for an extended period of time once they begin replacing M2s. For the disheartened, just remember that we're not SEPTA. They placed the order for their Silverliner Vs around the same time we placed the M8 order, and they're doing far worse than we are. They only have six cars on property (before Dec. 30th, they only had three) and this is with the plant in their backyard, whereas our equipment is coming from Nebraska and we have at least eighteen on property. These first three cars have very quickly gone from objects of desire to objects of derision as glitch after glitch after glitch pulled them out of revenue service, and some people are calling for an investigation into the process that awarded Rotem the contract. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 26, 2011 Share #346 Posted January 26, 2011 Maybe we should rename the title of this from "New M8's is a go!!" to "New M8's a Failure" I've been following this posting for a while with hopes of seeing the M8 come into service. Guess now all we'll have is hope and faith with these cars because I'm done waiting. Let it happen, my excitement on these cars has died.... I'm still excited. Yea it's excruciating to wait, but given how complex these cars are mechanically, it's better to wait now than to watch as they're only run during rush hour like certain other rail fleets..... Most likely not. I doubt that we'll see an eight-car consist enter revenue service before Valentine's, and quite frankly, I'm happy that CDOT has been pushing the big debut back for one huge reason: thorough testing. These cars need to have the Dickens tested out of them in order to properly assess all capabilities and to quell as many issues before Kawasaki begins full swing production. I'd really hate to see a debacle similar to the R46's in the late 70's when the mothballed R16GE's were brought back into service because of shoddy construction. I couldn't agree more. There's no need to rush things. The M2's aren't completely falling apart and they can last one more year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted January 26, 2011 Share #347 Posted January 26, 2011 The M2's aren't completely falling apart and they can last one more year. They're becoming a problem. Due to the weather, 150+ New Haven Line cars are in the shop. It's gotten so bad that the Wassaic through trains are being cancelled to provide extra dual-mode equipment to run New Haven Line trains. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKorean Posted January 26, 2011 Share #348 Posted January 26, 2011 M2 cars smell bad too. ugh. The odor from the bathroom reeks the whole train. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share #349 Posted January 26, 2011 For M2s to be that old,they still ride pretty smooth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregorygrice Posted January 26, 2011 Share #350 Posted January 26, 2011 The M8s need to hurry up because the M2s are f***ing up! http://http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/traffic/mta/metro-north-train-travels-with-door-open-20110125 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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