M-8 Discussion

[gregorygrice]

Diversity!!!! The New Haven branch hasn`t seen a new railcar since 1993 and the oldest train running was made in 1972!!!!.LIRR has M3`s,M7`s and C3 bi-levels. thats diversity.

 

St Louis Car is right. The LIRR doesn't have that many old cars that need replacing. Metro North is doing this because the NH Line NEEDS new cars.

[Infamous85]

Diversity!!!! The New Haven branch hasn`t seen a new railcar since 1993 and the oldest train running was made in 1972!!!!.LIRR has M3`s,M7`s and C3 bi-levels. thats diversity.

 

Metro-North in general, they have PPCC's, M2's, M3A's, M4's, M6's, M7A's & M8's (soon), not to mention the locomotives, that's diversity!!!! Also the C3's don't go on every branch, I've never even ridden a C3 before. And how about those M9's, I hope they look like the M8's.

 

Why is the New Haven branch neglected anyways?

 

Edit: I just found out they have electrical outlets.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Infamous85

[St Louis Car 09]

Metro-North in general, they have PPCC's, M2's, M3A's, M4's, M6's, M7A's & M8's (soon), not to mention the locomotives, that's diversity!!!! Also the C3's don't go on every branch, I've never even ridden a C3 before. And how about those M9's, I hope they look like the M8's.

 

Why is the New Haven branch neglected anyways?

 

Edit: I just found out they have electrical outlets.

M2/M4 and M6`s are practically the same except the M4 are triplets.Not very diverse since they are all compatible on the New Haven.

[Rutgers Tube]

Metro-North in general, they have PPCC's, M2's, M3A's, M4's, M6's, M7A's & M8's (soon), not to mention the locomotives, that's diversity!!!! Also the C3's don't go on every branch, I've never even ridden a C3 before. And how about those M9's, I hope they look like the M8's.

 

Why is the New Haven branch neglected anyways?

 

Edit: I just found out they have electrical outlets.

 

I couldn't multi-quote both of your posts regarding diversity, but as far as the New Haven Line is concerned, the most diversity we ever see up this was is the number of cars per consist during rush hour. Some nights, the 6:04 pm out of GCT to New Haven runs ten cars - two triplets and three pairs, and on other nights when equipment problems arise, that same train will run a triplet and two pairs to make a seven-car consist. That train is standing-room only on a Tuesday night at full-length. On a Friday night, especially during before a long weekend or during the summer, your theory about diversity gives us packed vestibules, filthy floors and seats, the inability to even scratch our other arms, ringing ears and inadequately-stocked and cleaned bathrooms.

 

And as the different rolling stock currently in usage... it's spread out amongst the various lines and branches, just as the LIRR's equipment is. However, the M3A's are out the way out, and had it not been for the Yankee game shuttle service, they'd probably barely ever roll. And the M8's have been purchased to replace the M2's, which, to the average commuter, look exactly the same as the M4/6's.

 

I can board a train at any stop between NH and GCT, and unless it's a diesel locomotive, I can expect to see the same overtaxed and under-rested cars arrive at a station, the same red and blue seats and the same dirty tan floors than my parents may have vomited on when they were younger than I am now am. We get diversity up here, and when we do, rarely does it make the commute more pleasant or interesting.

[Joe]

I'd like to see M8s on the LIRR, how come Metro-North gets all the diversity lol.

 

Interesting tidbit: MNR (it was really their predecessor, but the name escapes me) did the acceptance testing for the Cosmopolitans on the LIRR. There are photos of M2s at Shea Stadium on nycsubway.org.

[m7zanr160s]

I'd like to see M8s on the LIRR, how come Metro-North gets all the diversity lol.

 

LIRR only has 3rd rail electrification or none at all. Metro north has 3rd rail and catenary overhead electrification or, none at all.

[St Louis Car 09]

 

LIRR only has 3rd rail electrification or none at all. Metro north has 3rd rail and catenary overhead electrification or, none at all.

The M8 is able to run on LIRR,but only on certain branches with third rail electrification.

[gregorygrice]

The M8 is able to run on LIRR,but only on certain branches with third rail electrification.

 

They're red anyway...lol:p

[Infamous85]

M2/M4 and M6`s are practically the same except the M4 are triplets.Not very diverse since they are all compatible on the New Haven.

 

I know, just like the LIRR with the M1's? and the M3's. I wonder why the other trains can't run on the New Haven line.

 

I couldn't multi-quote both of your posts regarding diversity, but as far as the New Haven Line is concerned, the most diversity we ever see up this was is the number of cars per consist during rush hour. Some nights, the 6:04 pm out of GCT to New Haven runs ten cars - two triplets and three pairs, and on other nights when equipment problems arise, that same train will run a triplet and two pairs to make a seven-car consist. That train is standing-room only on a Tuesday night at full-length. On a Friday night, especially during before a long weekend or during the summer, your theory about diversity gives us packed vestibules, filthy floors and seats, the inability to even scratch our other arms, ringing ears and inadequately-stocked and cleaned bathrooms.

 

And as the different rolling stock currently in usage... it's spread out amongst the various lines and branches, just as the LIRR's equipment is. However, the M3A's are out the way out, and had it not been for the Yankee game shuttle service, they'd probably barely ever roll. And the M8's have been purchased to replace the M2's, which, to the average commuter, look exactly the same as the M4/6's.

 

I can board a train at any stop between NH and GCT, and unless it's a diesel locomotive, I can expect to see the same overtaxed and under-rested cars arrive at a station, the same red and blue seats and the same dirty tan floors than my parents may have vomited on when they were younger than I am now am. We get diversity up here, and when we do, rarely does it make the commute more pleasant or interesting.

 

That's the thing, I never even brought up the New Haven line, someone else did and got hype about it. I know how it is to ride in old trains/buses while you see other lines get new things. I also rode those dirty, loud, clickitty clackity M1's? & M3's on the LIRR (which look and physically feel like a blast from the past), MTA's Jamaica Bus Depot was always 100% RTS for as long as I can remember up until October '09 (rough, dirty, unreliable RTS's), when I used to ride the it was 95% R32 which are from 1964 (hot, dirty, smelly, old, pissy, rough R32's).

 

Thanks for explaining a lot about the New Haven line.

 

Interesting tidbit: MNR (it was really their predecessor, but the name escapes me) did the acceptance testing for the Cosmopolitans on the LIRR. There are photos of M2s at Shea Stadium on nycsubway.org.

 

Cool, I'm gonna check them out.

 

LIRR only has 3rd rail electrification or none at all. Metro north has 3rd rail and catenary overhead electrification or, none at all.

 

How do the trains work beyond the third rail?

[gregorygrice]

I know, just like the LIRR with the M1's? and the M3's. I wonder why the other trains can't run on the New Haven line.

 

How do the trains work beyond the third rail?

 

Other trains will not work on the New Haven Line because the NH Line is on the NEC (North East Corridor) which uses catenary wires which are overhead. All of the other electric trains MNRR has (primarily the M7s use third rail power)

 

In order to operate trains beyond the third rail, Diesels are used for push-pull trains. The electric train cars that use the third rail (M7s) will either not run on the line if there is no third rail or run part of the line if there is third rail and terminate where ever the third rail ends. For example: on the Harlem line, M7s operate only to Southeast (where the third rail ends) In order to continue the line, people must be on one of the Diesel trains that go straight up to Wasaiac

[Rutgers Tube]

Why is the New Haven branch neglected anyways?

 

I forgot to answer this question earlier.

 

The Connecticut Department of Transportation owns all (I think) of the R.O.W. that Metro-North uses right up to the New York state line. While mainline operation costs are shared 65% CDOT and 35% Metro-North, operation costs for the three branches are covered solely by CDOT. Our former Governor, John Rowland, was a Robert Moses of sorts, someone who cared little for mass transportation and the state budgets that were submitted during his tenure of 1995-2004 will support that statement. It's interesting to note that the last new order of New Haven Line railcars were delivered during 1993-94, the years before he assumed the gubernatorial position. The current governor, Jodi Rell, who unfortunately will not be running as the incumbent in the next election, has been a great proponent of mass transportation, supporting the purchase of the M-8's, an upgraded operating system (new ties were recently installed on most of the Wtby branch, and some of NH Mainline, and the catenary system continues to receive a huge overhaul and replacement), additional parking for commuters and improved safety and accessibility at stations. John Rowland was too busy using those funds to pay the contractors at his house.

 

Hope that explains a few things.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Rutgers Tube

[TheKorean]

I couldn't multi-quote both of your posts regarding diversity, but as far as the New Haven Line is concerned, the most diversity we ever see up this was is the number of cars per consist during rush hour. Some nights, the 6:04 pm out of GCT to New Haven runs ten cars - two triplets and three pairs, and on other nights when equipment problems arise, that same train will run a triplet and two pairs to make a seven-car consist. That train is standing-room only on a Tuesday night at full-length. On a Friday night, especially during before a long weekend or during the summer, your theory about diversity gives us packed vestibules, filthy floors and seats, the inability to even scratch our other arms, ringing ears and inadequately-stocked and cleaned bathrooms.

 

And as the different rolling stock currently in usage... it's spread out amongst the various lines and branches, just as the LIRR's equipment is. However, the M3A's are out the way out, and had it not been for the Yankee game shuttle service, they'd probably barely ever roll. And the M8's have been purchased to replace the M2's, which, to the average commuter, look exactly the same as the M4/6's.

 

I can board a train at any stop between NH and GCT, and unless it's a diesel locomotive, I can expect to see the same overtaxed and under-rested cars arrive at a station, the same red and blue seats and the same dirty tan floors than my parents may have vomited on when they were younger than I am now am. We get diversity up here, and when we do, rarely does it make the commute more pleasant or interesting.

 

If the entire NH line is electrified through catenary system why do they need a disel train to serve the line?

[Far Rock Depot]

If the entire NH line is electrified through catenary system why do they need a disel train to serve the line?

the Danbury and Waterbury branches are not electrified. Only the main line and New Caanan branch have catenary

[Rutgers Tube]

If the entire NH line is electrified through catenary system why do they need a disel train to serve the line?

 

the Danbury and Waterbury branches are not electrified. Only the main line and New Caanan branch have catenary

 

Some trains run through from GCT to Danbury, and therefore have to use a diesel locomotive. Waterbury Branch trains begin their run at Bridgeport and head north in Devon, and must run on the main line for a short period. Shore Line East still uses diesels, I believe for all of their runs. The other reason that diesels are used are because of a shortage of equipment for the number of runs and riders, but generally diesels are put in to accommodate the schedule so that after a trip is finished, the cars may be laid-up and consists lengthened or shortened and then dead-headed back to, say Bridgeport, South Norwalk or Stamford to start a run back up a branch or to be fueled and serviced. This is what I've been told by a MNR engineer, but there are a few members here who are also MNR engineers and may have a more accurate response.

[m7zanr160s]

I forgot to answer this question earlier.

 

The Connecticut Department of Transportation owns all (I think) of the R.O.W. that Metro-North uses right up to the New York state line. While mainline operation costs are shared 65% CDOT and 35% Metro-North, operation costs for the three branches are covered solely by CDOT. Our former Governor, John Rowland, was a Robert Moses of sorts, someone who cared little for mass transportation and the state budgets that were submitted during his tenure of 1995-2004 will support that statement. It's interesting to note that the last new order of New Haven Line railcars were delivered during 1993-94, the years before he assumed the gubernatorial position. The current governor, Jodi Rell, who unfortunately will not be running as the incumbent in the next election, has been a great proponent of mass transportation, supporting the purchase of the M-8's, an upgraded operating system (new ties were recently installed on most of the Wtby branch, and some of NH Mainline, and the catenary system continues to receive a huge overhaul and replacement), additional parking for commuters and improved safety and accessibility at stations. John Rowland was too busy using those funds to pay the contractors at his house.

 

Hope that explains a few things.

 

LOL

[nhrrwtby]

Some trains run through from GCT to Danbury, and therefore have to use a diesel locomotive. Waterbury Branch trains begin their run at Bridgeport and head north in Devon, and must run on the main line for a short period.

 

Does anyone know the last time a train ran direct from Waterbury to GCT? My dad says when he was a kid in the 30's the NH used to run direct from Waterbury to GCT.

[Far Rock Depot]

The M8 is able to run on LIRR,but only on certain branches with third rail electrification.

 

How is that possible with 2 different types of 3rd rails. Isnt that the M8's 3rd rail shoes are retractable for If/when they share tracks from Sunnyside into Penn Sta? The option i was told at the Croton open house in 08 was to run under Amtrak's Cantenary all the way south of New Rochelle.

[St Louis Car 09]

 

How is that possible with 2 different types of 3rd rails. Isnt that the M8's 3rd rail shoes are retractable for If/when they share tracks from Sunnyside into Penn Sta? The option i was told at the Croton open house in 08 was to run under Amtrak's Cantenary all the way south of New Rochelle.

LIRR runs on top of the third rail?

[Far Rock Depot]

LIRR runs on top of the third rail?

 

yes it does. During electrification, Penn and New haven opted for cantenary. LIRR went 3rd rail like the subway(which is how NYCTA was able to speed test R44s on LIRR tracks). New York Central went 3rd rail but opted for an under running rail. Engineers have yet to design an effective shoe that can adjust for height. the best option(for now) would be a retractable shoe since M8s if they start Penn Sta service would use Amtraks cantenary.

 

Think about it, why else when cars are ordered for LIRR (M1, M3, M7), instead of adding more cars to the same order, MNR gets their own order (M1A, M3A, M7A [besides signal system differences of course]).

[N-Trizzy2609]

yes it does. During electrification, Penn and New haven opted for cantenary. LIRR went 3rd rail like the subway(which is how NYCTA was able to speed test R44s on LIRR tracks). New York Central went 3rd rail but opted for an under running rail. Engineers have yet to design an effective shoe that can adjust for height. the best option(for now) would be a retractable shoe since M8s if they start Penn Sta service would use Amtraks cantenary.

 

Think about it, why else when cars are ordered for LIRR (M1, M3, M7), instead of adding more cars to the same order, MNR gets their own order (M1A, M3A, M7A [besides signal system differences of course]).

 

But the M8 are approved to run into Penn under catenary!

[Far Rock Depot]

But the M8 are approved to run into Penn under catenary!

 

That's what I said. Read my post again. They will go into penn using Amtrak's catenary. And the 3rd rail shoes are to be retracted before merging with LIRR at sunnyside.

[captain82]

LIRR runs on top of the third rail?

 

Not to mention that both third rail types have different voltage.

[St Louis Car 09]

I thought this pic was interesting to post.

 

[NYCTrainFan95]

I thought this pic was interesting to post.

 

THE IMAGE WAS HERE...

Other than the weird light formation, I think these EMUs look reaaaaaaaaaally cool. :tup::tup:

[St Louis Car 09]

Other than the weird light formation, I think these EMUs look reaaaaaaaaaally cool. :tup::tup:

It looks very Japanese.:tup: