Subway signals

[INDman]

Effective Jan 1,1944

Here are some scans from my 1944 rule book. The rule book divides the signals into 4 groups, IND, BMT, IRT, and Dyer Ave. line. Those who know their signals will notice that the Dyer Ave. signals are really IND signals.

IND Div. Signals

 

 

BMT Div. Signals

 

 

 

The top half is the last of the BMT Div. Signals and the bottom starts the IRT Div. Signals

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dyer Ave. Line Signals

 

 

[Y2Julio]

Good stuff INDman.

[LRG]

Pretty neat. Thanks for sharing.

[St Louis Car 09]

Cool signal info,but man those pages were slowing down my PC LOL.

[Joe]

Is the Coasting sign still found? I don't think i've ever seen one (but then again, haven't been looking for it).

[INDman]

The only place I have seen it was in a yard. Other then that, I have never seen it on the road.

[Eric B]

Those first ones with the sunburst aspect drawings are the same things still used in the rulebook, only the coloring is computer filled now.

 

They even have the blue bottom aspects (which only existed somewhere in Gold St. interlocking; which I wish I could see how it looked; what shade of blue. Wished they still had the signal up in the signal graveyard at 207th), and the four headed monster (which I heard was only up around Westchester yard).

[INDman]

Sadly the closest I have gotten to a 4 headed monster is the 3 headed one just north of the station at East 180 Street. I loike that one because it looks like a call-on if you are going into the yard.

[Rutgers Tube]

I might be missing something, but aren't the Dyre signals more closely related to the IRT signals than anything else? The way I remembered IRT vs. IND/BMT signalling is that the top head governed the main route, while the bottom head governed the diverging route in IRT signalling, while with IND/BMT signalling, the top head governed how fast to approach and the bottom head governed which way (How over way). Please correct me if I'm wrong, INDman, since I know you're much more knowledgeable about this than I am.

 

Thanks.

[INDman]

I might be missing something, but aren't the Dyre signals more closely related to the IRT signals than anything else? The way I remembered IRT vs. IND/BMT signaling is that the top head governed the main route, while the bottom head governed the diverging route in IRT signaling, while with IND/BMT signaling, the top head governed how fast to approach and the bottom head governed which way (How over way). Please correct me if I'm wrong, INDman, since I know you're much more knowledgeable about this than I am.

 

Thanks.

 

First off, these are the signals that were found on the NYCTS in 1944.

 

Now, what makes the Dyer Ave. Line signals like those of the IND (BMT signals of the time are a little different) is the position of the aspects (the colors).

IND, BMT, and Dyer Line automatics go from top to bottom,

Green

Amber

Red

 

IRT signals of the time go like this,

Green

Red

Amber

This may seem like a small detail, but it is important info to a M/M.

 

Now at this time 1944, the Dyer Ave. Line used IRT signals at interlockings only and the line did not have semaphore signals like the IRT.

 

As a side note, what made BMT signals different from IND signals aside from switch stands and semaphores, was that there was a homeball at Gold Interlocking (just south of DeKalb Ave) that used a Blue aspect, it was not a lunar white like a "one shot" GT signal. This was because the switch it protected was a 3 way switch. BMT signals also included the "one shot" GT which was a speed control signal displayed as Red over a "lunar white" which would clear if approached at the correct speed to either Amber or Green depending on the track condition ahead. If you were going too fast, CHOW! You get tripped.

Todays signals are a combination of all 3 types minus the semaphores, but they are working on removing the last of the IRT signals in the area of East 180th Street.

Hope this helps and by all means, ask if you need more clarification on something.

[Rutgers Tube]

First off, these are the signals that were found on the NYCTS in 1944.

 

Now, what makes the Dyer Ave. Line signals like those of the IND (BMT signals of the time are a little different) is the position of the aspects (the colors).

IND, BMT, and Dyer Line automatics go from top to bottom,

Green

Amber

Red

 

IRT signals of the time go like this,

Green

Red

Amber

This may seem like a small detail, but it is important info to a M/M.

 

Now at this time 1944, the Dyer Ave. Line used IRT signals at interlockings only and the line did not have semaphore signals like the IRT.

 

As a side note, what made BMT signals different from IND signals aside from switch stands and semaphores, was that there was a homeball at Gold Interlocking (just south of DeKalb Ave) that used a Blue aspect, it was not a lunar white like a "one shot" GT signal. This was because the switch it protected was a 3 way switch. BMT signals also included the "one shot" GT which was a speed control signal displayed as Red over a "lunar white" which would clear if approached at the correct speed to either Amber or Green depending on the track condition ahead. If you were going too fast, CHOW! You get tripped.

Todays signals are a combination of all 3 types minus the semaphores, but they are working on removing the last of the IRT signals in the area of East 180th Street.

Hope this helps and by all means, ask if you need more clarification on something.

 

That's great. Thank you, Sir.

 

When were the last semaphores in usage in NYC, where, and are there still any remnants remaining today?

[INDman]

That's great. Thank you, Sir.

 

When were the last semaphores in usage in NYC, where, and are there still any remnants remaining today?

 

The last semaphores were on the Jerome Ave line and were taken out in 1973. The only time I saw a semaphore in the system was at the old Stillwell Ave. There is a semaphore in the Transit Museum, but that is very inaccurate since it is an IND station and it's inside. I would have to go look at it to see if it is an IRT or BMT signal and if it is an automatic or interlocking.

[Matt91]

Wow, the IRT had so many different kinds of signals and aspects. What was the need for that many?

 

what made BMT signals different from IND signals aside from switch stands and semaphores, was that there was a homeball at Gold Interlocking (just south of DeKalb Ave) that used a Blue aspect, it was not a lunar white like a "one shot" GT signal. This was because the switch it protected was a 3 way switch.

 

So did blue mean the other diverging route? And where else was this blue aspect located in the BMT?

[INDman]

Wow, the IRT had so many different kinds of signals and aspects. What was the need for that many?

 

 

 

So did blue mean the other diverging route? And where else was this blue aspect located in the BMT?

 

1. It (the Blue aspect) was for a 3rd route at this one particular switch.

So the line ups would look like:

Route 1

Green

Over

Green

 

Route 2

Green

over

Amber

 

Route 3

Green

over

Blue

The Motorman would have known which route went where.

As I said before though, Gold Interlocking (north of DeKalb Av. but before the Manhattan Bridge) was the only location what had this signal.

[Midnite Xpress]

I could be wrong, but I think there's a coast sign covered with steel dust when you go down the hill between 67th Avenue & 63rd Drive in the Queens corridor southbound. It's easy to miss due to the grade and the speed the of the train.

[INDman]

That is very possible. Back when the IND sytem opened, M/M were told to cost when ever possible to save on power consumption.

[Matt91]

1. It (the Blue aspect) was for a 3rd route at this one particular switch.

So the line ups would look like:

Route 1

Green

Over

Green

 

Route 2

Green

over

Amber

 

Route 3

Green

over

Blue

The Motorman would have known which route went where.

As I said before though, Gold Interlocking (north of DeKalb Av. but before the Manhattan Bridge) was the only location what had this signal.

 

Ok, thanks. I'm assuming then that the signal with the blue aspect doesn't exist anymore

[INDman]

I'm assuming then that the signal with the blue aspect doesn't exist anymore

 

That is correct, I think it was taken out around 1956 when they did alot of work to increase capacity at the interlocking.

[Grand Concourse]

That's an interesting set of switches there. I've never seen a '3 switch track' before.

[INDman]

That's an interesting set of switches there. I've never seen a '3 switch track' before.

 

It's not very common. I would guess that it's very sensitive and would be very high maintenance.

[Grand Concourse]

Yup, I'd hate to be the person that has to keep the switches working in the winter.

I guess either they had no room to have 2 separate switches or it was 'cheaper' to build it all in one spot?

[Eric B]

Yeah, I don't think we have anything like that anywhere. (I once sent in a suggestion iinvolving a double-slip switch, and they replied that they want to move away from that sort of thing as well).

When there's a second diverging route in the same interlocking, the second one will be located past the first one.

[Dan05979]

INDman thanks I learned alot of info from that. :tup:

[EE Broadway Local]

How many signals make up "Homeball Alley"?

 

Thanks for the cool scans, INDMan. :cool: